The Great Ratings Debate (long)

[Kushmir]

Re: The Great Ratings Debate (long)

"60 is just plain don nelsoning the rookies.."

that's classic...and funny. you're hard on don nelson aren't you? here's the thing: the rookies would only START the season with ratings like that (justified--because they haven't proven anything) i like to say "you GO UP, when you SHOW UP." their stats would increase or decrease (based on their level of play) monthly just like everyone else in the league..

I think we can all agree that it just doesn't make sense for rookies to be rated higher than NBA starters..

[JkA3]

Re: The Great Ratings Debate (long)

Great and informative thread.

[pjt8405]

Re: The Great Ratings Debate (long)

Here are my changes to the NBA2k10 Ratings, These will be implemented as soon as I get the game next week... These are just my opinion on where I rank each player and I welcome all discussions on these and look forward to the feedback.

Starting with the Rookies that have been posted so far... (the complete list will be released when I get the game and find out the ratings for missing players)... Note: These were taken from Rashidi's website).

Point Guards:

71 – Jonny Flynn (down from 74)
69 – Ty Lawson (down from 71)
69 – Stephen Curry
67 – Jrue Holiday
66 – Jeff Teague
64 – Eric Maynor (down from 66)
65 – Darren Collison
63 – Toney Douglas (down from 65)
67 – Brandon Jennings (up from 64)



Shooting Guards
74 – James Harden (down from 76)
71 – Tyreke Evans
67 – Terrence Williams (down from 71)
66 - Gerald Henderson (down from 67)
67 – Demar DeRozan (up from 64)
60 – Jermaine Taylor (down from 62)
64 – Wayne Ellington (up from 61)
61 – Jodie Meeks
62 – Marcus Thornton (up from 58)


Small Forwards
64– Derrick Brown (down from 69)
65 – Sam Young (down from 67)
65 – Chase Budinger
64 – Danny Green
65 – Earl Clark (up from 63)
60 – DeMarre Carroll
63 – Austin Daye (up from 60)
61 – DaJuan Summers (up from 59)
54 – Jonas Jerebko (down from 57)
55 – Omri Casspi (up from 51)



Power Forwards
77 – Blake Griffin
67 – Tyler Hansbrough (down from 68)
61 – Jordan Hill (down from 62)
62 – James Johnson
55 – Taylor Griffin (down from 60)
64 – DeJuan Blair (up from 59)
59 – Taj Gibson
54 - Serge Ibaka

Centers
62 – Hasheem Thabeet (up from 57)
58 - B.J. Mullens


The Rest of the league coming after I get home from work.....

Oh and if anyone has the game could you please included the ratings for the missing rookies from this list please???

[houston911]

Re: The Great Ratings Debate (long)

aside from the terrible ratings job they did from jump street, theye gotta fix the progressions

kobe is a 96, lebron is a 97


simulate the game for maybe 3 years and guys like chris paul, dwight, rondo, deron williams, durant, blake griffin, etc. might all be 99

whats the odds of those players being better than bron and kobe were last year? there needs to be a cap, there should never be a top when you have 6 or 7 guys with a 99 rating

they need to cut down the skill points you add to players too. those summer development points shouldnt be able to get added to everyone, you shouldnt be able to just give dwayne wade 4 points on his 3 point rating every summer while improving it 3 or 4 points during the year.

[Jukeman]

Re: The Great Ratings Debate (long)

aside from the terrible ratings job they did from jump street, theye gotta fix the progressions

kobe is a 96, lebron is a 97


simulate the game for maybe 3 years and guys like chris paul, dwight, rondo, deron williams, durant, blake griffin, etc. might all be 99

whats the odds of those players being better than bron and kobe were last year? there needs to be a cap, there should never be a top when you have 6 or 7 guys with a 99 rating

they need to cut down the skill points you add to players too. those summer development points shouldnt be able to get added to everyone, you shouldnt be able to just give dwayne wade 4 points on his 3 point rating every summer while improving it 3 or 4 points during the year.

Its not the progression, its seems fine.....

MC posted that a generic rookie who played well(DRose well) gained 6 points(3per) in
2 years(80 to 86) while a so so guy off the bench gained 2 points(1per) in 2 years...Plus if is anything like NBA2K9, players will stop progressing at a certain age(26-27)

The thing is IMHO, the ratings are still too high especially with the generic rookies...Whether you have "weak" classes or "strong" classes a rookie should not come out as a 83OVR....Lets take LBJ for EX....Give him a 75 as a rookie, take 3 points gained in OVR a year...6years + 3points =18....18 + 75 = 93....A 93 is a Great rating for him right? Even if 2 points is the average he still comes out as a 87....If the cap for progression stops at 26yrs old(he's 25 this season), Lebron would cap at 96 or 90 for worst....

Now I dont know how the game actually work soo I could be wrong...But 2k, dont be scared to give these guys low ratings!

[Kushmir]

Re: The Great Ratings Debate (long)

here are Live's ratings...and i dont say this much when comparing the games...but i gotta keep it real...

MUCH BETTER.

http://sports.espn.go.com/videogames...ory?id=4517721

(please notice the absence of Rajon Rondo in the elite PG range)

[SaC_KiNg09]

Re: The Great Ratings Debate (long)

The biggest issue I have with ratings in general is how they affect the games logic. The logic in a basketball game is to start the player at that particular position with the highest overall rating on your roster, and this shouldn't be the case. Like I indicated on my earlier post teams should determine who they sign and who they start based on team chemistry and how that player fits in the system. One prime example was when Shaq went to the Phenoix Suns. Everyone knows that Shaq is past the point of his career where he plays 40mins a game and runs up and down the court. If the game used my logic Shaq's rating would have took a big hit. Why???? because shaq cant run and gun....now if the system was changed to a more half court type system a la the Cleveland Cavilers his rating should see an increase depending on the players he is surrounded with as well.

[Jukeman]

Re: The Great Ratings Debate (long)

here are Live's ratings...and i dont say this much when comparing the games...but i gotta keep it real...

MUCH BETTER.

http://sports.espn.go.com/videogames...ory?id=4517721

(please notice the absence of Rajon Rondo in the elite PG range)

You cant compared the two because they dont have the same rating catogories, 2k has more to work with...

@ SaC

Shaq start almost every game with the suns, they also changed their pace...Its not because Shaq cant play in the offense(Young Shaq would love it) but he's old and dont have the fatigue nor speed anymore to get up court which you should see in the game...If his stamina, speed, quickness isnt overrated....

This would be good in football games, basketball aint really about schemes and assignments...A Center is a Center where's in football, your team could have different schemes for a position....You dont see a PG doing anything a guard wont normally do in the NBA...A point forward aint nothing but a big 3 guard, a shooting PF aint nothing but a big SF....

I understand what you are saying and I agree somewhat, I think teams should sign/trade/draft players base on the coaches style(deffensive, run and gun, etc) but the NFL headcoach logic dont work in the NBA...

[jeebs9]

Re: The Great Ratings Debate (long)

You cant compared the two because they dont have the same rating catogories, 2k has more to work with....

Exactly....

[Kushmir]

Re: The Great Ratings Debate (long)

Exactly....

hmmm..i disagree. with Dynamic DNA, Live uses a ton of data as well...and while i don't think the games are remotely close in terms of playability (AGAIN--just my opinion)...the facts are that Live's ratings are better and much more consistent..now do I agree with all of their ratings? nope...but its SIMPLE...they look better.

[Jukeman]

Re: The Great Ratings Debate (long)

Exactly....

And at the end of the day numbers add up...

[jeebs9]

Re: The Great Ratings Debate (long)

What I said in a another thread....

These ratings can't be just looked at and judge guys. It doesn't make any sense. We have two very different games. Build in two different engines. Mike Wang….If anyone hasn’t notice yet. Is bringing a lot of the things that was in 2k into Live. I mean watching his tutorial video of the controls for the Live demo. Made go around to a few lawyers and ask if EA could be brought up on copyright infringement charges…lol 2k’s individual ratings can’t be put next to Live’s. It does not make sense at all. It’s like comparing a sour apple to a russet apple. It’s all comes down to opinion.

I’m assuming most of us haven’t even played the retail versions of both games. I think the main thing we should look for. Is do they play like their real-life counter parts. Yes on paper Rondo seems a little overrated. But does he play like Rondo. Can’t shoot but plays a lot of good D. Is he athletic? Those are questions we should ask ourselves.

[SaC_KiNg09]

Re: The Great Ratings Debate (long)

You cant compared the two because they dont have the same rating catogories, 2k has more to work with...

@ SaC

Shaq start almost every game with the suns, they also changed their pace...Its not because Shaq cant play in the offense(Young Shaq would love it) but he's old and dont have the fatigue nor speed anymore to get up court which you should see in the game...If his stamina, speed, quickness isnt overrated....

This would be good in football games, basketball aint really about schemes and assignments...A Center is a Center where's in football, your team could have different schemes for a position....You dont see a PG doing anything a guard wont normally do in the NBA...A point forward aint nothing but a big 3 guard, a shooting PF aint nothing but a big SF....

I understand what you are saying and I agree somewhat, I think teams should sign/trade/draft players base on the coaches style(deffensive, run and gun, etc) but the NFL headcoach logic dont work in the NBA...

Why dont you think it would work? I think it would make the game so much more fun to play. With the current system in place the team will start someone with a higher rating over some who best fits the teams rotation. We have seen situations where rookies can come to a team and start right away. They start because the coach feels like he is a better fit for the team and because they make the other players around them better. With the current system in place you wont have a rookie come in and start because his rating may be lower than the current person starting at that position. Its kind of hard to really explain what I mean but if you have a player that is best suited to play a certain style and play with certain players he should have a rating that reflects that, as oposed to playing in a offense that doesnt gear towards that players strengths.

[Kushmir]

Re: The Great Ratings Debate (long)

"I’m assuming most of us haven’t even played the retail versions of both games. I think the main thing we should look for. Is do they play like their real-life counter parts. Yes on paper Rondo seems a little overrated. But does he play like Rondo. Can’t shoot but plays a lot of good D. Is he athletic? Those are questions we should ask ourselves."

well said, like i said in my initial posting..this is definitely what's most important. if they do play right" i have no issues whatsoever...

[Jukeman]

Re: The Great Ratings Debate (long)

Why dont you think it would work? I think it would make the game so much more fun to play. With the current system in place the team will start someone with a higher rating over some who best fits the teams rotation. We have seen situations where rookies can come to a team and start right away. They start because the coach feels like he is a better fit for the team and because they make the other players around them better. With the current system in place you wont have a rookie come in and start because his rating may be lower than the current person starting at that position. Its kind of hard to really explain what I mean but if you have a player that is best suited to play a certain style and play with certain players he should have a rating that reflects that, as oposed to playing in a offense that doesnt gear towards that players strengths.

I get what you are saying, my mind was in two different places at the same time....OVR ratings should reflect on stlye(run&gun, slow pace, def, etc) but players shouldnt LOSE a single rating...I agree