How much conrol do we really need?

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  • 2kfanatic
    Rookie
    • Dec 2008
    • 437

    #1

    How much conrol do we really need?

    Well this year's basketball games seems to focus on the "total control" thing. But how much control do we really need?

    First let me say that <Insert 2k dreamcast speech here> and as my name implies I prefer 2k over live (But I do play live too its good to have options).

    In my opinion, I do not agree with this 100% control propaganda if what they meant by giving total control will sacrifice realism.

    Why? I'll give an example in dribbling: Let's say I want to execute a spin move and at the middle of the spin my defender was able to block my path in the right direction. In this case I should be able to break the animation into a half spin or maybe if the defender is good enough then he may be able to draw a charge. But if total control means that I can break out into a step back or cross over animation or a behind the back animation, I don't think that's "SIM" either.

    Pull Up Jumpers: I should not be able to execute a pull up jumper when the ball is halfway down while running at full speed, why? Cause I don't think anyone can do that in real life. So 2k did is they included the "awkward feet shuffle animation" so that it won't look like the ball magically teleported from the air to your hand. And the sad part here is most 2k players want the ability to pull up whenever wherever however which is not "SIM" either.

    Half step spin/Pro hops: In my opinion 2k has balanced the half step spin very well but not the pro hop. There is a reason why we rarely see a half step spin in the nba and that is because its an extremely risky move that will lead to a charge or a travel (yup 2k nailed it). But the pro hop has no risk/reward thing going on and made it so cheesable last year;

    Passing: This is the part I hate the most in 2k10, it is so easy to pass inside the paint pre patch. post patch and post post patch lol. And I also hate the fact that sometimes we commit a turnover bevause the cpu needs to catchup lol.

    Defense: In my opinion 2k and live should concentrate in defense control since both games virtually does not give as much control in defense compared to offense. If I am a good lateral defender I should be able to block the ballhanldler's way most of the time if they spam multiple and1 moves like a freaking ape with a ball. But I should not be able to close out on help D as fast as a freaking cheetah.

    Layups and dunks: 2k basically made these so easy which led to the PiP issue and yet did not gave us the full control (which hand to use). The ability to change shots in mid air should be more polished and should have more risks than reward.

    Moving without the ball: Yeah its a pain especially in MY player mode. Like some posters here said, "its like walking on mud". The problem here is that the game decides if the user will face up or sprint which led to the "walking on mud" issue.

    Rebounding: Aside from the "I want to execute a tip in dunk so the one boxing me out should jump early" issue, 2k pretty much nailed this but may need some minor tweaks (Court Positioning over ratings).

    So basically I also want to shoot a three without struggling and I don't want to slow down during a fast break. I also want as much control as I need without sacrificing realism.


    So what do you guys think?
  • youvalss
    ******
    • Feb 2007
    • 16599

    #2
    Re: How much conrol do we really need?

    The way I see it, the controls need to be responsive and percise, but I don't want it to be completely user controlled. What I mean, is I want it to look like NBA players doing their thing, not myself shooting or dribbling (although I'm not bad ). The key word, as usual, is "balance". Give us control and responsiveness, but keep it looking like the NBA - not like junior-high basketball on the one hand or Space Jam on the other.
    My Specs:

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    • TUSS11
      MVP
      • Nov 2007
      • 1483

      #3
      Re: How much conrol do we really need?

      I think you may be taking the 100% control idea too literally. There will obviously be parameters around this which keep the game realistic. A user may want to dunk from the 3-point line, but that doesn't mean the game will allow him just because of total user control.

      Comment

      • 2kfanatic
        Rookie
        • Dec 2008
        • 437

        #4
        Re: How much conrol do we really need?

        Originally posted by TUSS11
        I think you may be taking the 100% control idea too literally. There will obviously be parameters around this which keep the game realistic. A user may want to dunk from the 3-point line, but that doesn't mean the game will allow him just because of total user control.
        That's not what I meant lol. My primary concern is the dribbling since most people found 2k's system very unresponsive. Well I just don't want them to go overboard and let us break out of any dribbling animation anytime.

        But if they will let us do that I just hope the player will land somewhere before the hoopwhen attempting that lol.

        Comment

        • TUSS11
          MVP
          • Nov 2007
          • 1483

          #5
          Re: How much conrol do we really need?

          Originally posted by 2kfanatic
          That's not what I meant lol. My primary concern is the dribbling since most people found 2k's system very unresponsive. Well I just don't want them to go overboard and let us break out of any dribbling animation anytime.

          But if they will let us do that I just hope the player will land somewhere before the hoopwhen attempting that lol.
          As long as it respects the limitations of the human body then it should be fine.

          Comment

          • Kaanyr Vhok
            MVP
            • Aug 2006
            • 2248

            #6
            Re: How much conrol do we really need?

            Good post. I shared some of the same concerns.
            http://www.operationsports.com/forum...d.php?t=420781

            Comment

            • 2kfanatic
              Rookie
              • Dec 2008
              • 437

              #7
              Re: How much conrol do we really need?

              Originally posted by Kaanyr Vhok
              Good post. I shared some of the same concerns.
              http://www.operationsports.com/forum...d.php?t=420781
              "The ability to move with your hands up" <- this is probably my favorite in your post lol. Although I think it should only work going towards your man and not laterally.

              Comment

              • bearschicago
                Pro
                • Jul 2008
                • 674

                #8
                Re: How much conrol do we really need?

                Enough control so you don't lose control of your player.

                Comment

                • Kaanyr Vhok
                  MVP
                  • Aug 2006
                  • 2248

                  #9
                  Re: How much conrol do we really need?

                  Originally posted by 2kfanatic
                  "The ability to move with your hands up" <- this is probably my favorite in your post lol. Although I think it should only work going towards your man and not laterally.
                  Why not laterally? Could give the game much needed blocking calls.

                  Comment

                  • jeebs9
                    Fear is the Unknown
                    • Oct 2008
                    • 47562

                    #10
                    Re: How much conrol do we really need?

                    Totally agree with what OP....
                    Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo

                    Comment

                    • ODogg
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 37953

                      #11
                      Re: How much conrol do we really need?

                      Totally agree with OP and youvalss.....
                      Streaming PC & PS5 games, join me most nights after 6:00pm ET on TwitchTV https://www.twitch.tv/shaunh20
                      or Tiktok https://www.tiktok.com/@shaunh741

                      Comment

                      • TheKasmar
                        Pro
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 955

                        #12
                        Re: How much conrol do we really need?

                        I certainly don't want 100% control. 2k would make me happy if they could give me 60% control. Just simple control like moving my player forward or laterally, not getting sucked into the defender, or the steal animations that take way control. They could also put the manual post back into the game. That would definately raise the percentage.

                        Comment

                        • HighFlyinkilla
                          Rookie
                          • Jun 2010
                          • 24

                          #13
                          Re: How much conrol do we really need?

                          Give if the responsiveness of 2k7 and it will be a great game.

                          Comment

                          • Mos1ted
                            MVP
                            • Sep 2002
                            • 2267

                            #14
                            Re: How much conrol do we really need?

                            The controls will be ideal for me if:


                            - They make the ability to walk, jog, and sprint 100% pressure sensitive to the left stick. No context animations. No triggers. Also make the transition from walk to jog to sprint and back gradual and smooth; also have to where a player can't stop on a dime from a sprint and his momentum carries him forward extra steps.

                            - Bring back the defensive crouch button. Also let me play the ball handler to a particular side similar to what they had in 2K9. Part of player a good ball handler is to try to force him to his weak hand or force him to go the side where your help defense is.

                            - (Like mentioned a few posts before mine) Bring back the post up button. Allow users to post up ANYWHERE including the perimeter a la Mark Jackson (while still enforcing the 5 sec back to the basket rule of course). Also allow offensive players to back down defensive players. Get rid of that "deadlock" animation where the players just wouldn't move. At least show some resistance for both players if you want to emulate a weaker player attempting to back down a stronger player.

                            - Bring back the ability to fake pass. I MISS THIS.

                            - Give me the ability to determine the speed and trajectory of my passes. Make passes pressure sensitive like the Maximum Passing feature in the football games. Tap to throw overhead lob passes; hold to throw chest passes or passes into tight spaces and closing windows. Let passers over lead their recipients (to cause unforced turnovers) or throw the ball well ahead of a teammate initiate fast breaks.

                            - By 1:1 dribbling controls, I hope they mean the ability to determine WHICH hand a player dribbles with. They already have Offhand Ball Security Ratings in the game. Let's actually make it count this year!
                            Last edited by Mos1ted; 07-02-2010, 03:57 PM.
                            According to my old marketing professor, satisfaction is when product performance meets or exceeds consumer expectation.

                            Comment

                            • NINJAK2
                              *S *dd*ct
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 6185

                              #15
                              Re: How much conrol do we really need?

                              I agree with OP as well. I'm a little nervous about this 1:1 revolution as I hope it doesn't lead to rediculous looking chains of dribble moves that are not realistically possible in the name of total user control. I am all for control but in real life, all dribble moves have a point within them where you can't all of a sudden go in another direction. There's a point when you have to finish what you started. My hope is that both 2k and Elite will have this kind of philosophy within their systems.

                              The next evolution in these ball games will be to actually have traveling/palming violations when users attempt to string together moves which are physically impossible -similar to some of the scenarios the OP mentioned. I feel that some dribble animations need to play out before doing something else. We will know more about that with 2k at another time.
                              EA and 2k have the unfortunate task of trying to balance on a tightrope of fun and sim while trying not to fall 10,000 feet to their death. Instead of a safety net waiting down below there will just be angry customers quick to move out of the way and talk of their failure.

                              Comment

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