One concern I do have about simulation mode...

[Gosens6]

Re: One concern I do have about simulation mode...

It shouldn't worry you too much. That was Blues who would like to have 90 percent of open shots go in the heuristic system he described. Mike just said they reworked some things so that user execution is a bigger factor. And from what I have seen depending on you level your playing (if against the cpu) your not going to have a huge selection of open shots anyway.

Thanks Czar, it's always relieving when a guy like you or Pared gives insight on a situation with the game. I can ease out of worried mode now.

[blues rocker]

Re: One concern I do have about simulation mode...

In theory I like what your saying but I think your putting too much credit on open shots being made. Even good shooters miss open shot's. Again In theory I agree with you.

2k's shot heuristics are incredible for what they take into account and with the adjustments Beluba told you about it definitely rewards you for getting open shots IF you can get them.

true. I might have gone a bit overboard with the open shot success. maybe not 9 out of 10 open shots should go in...but I do think it should be 7 or 8 out of 10. I mean we are talking about a 90 rated shooter and he's WIDE OPEN. how annoying would it be if you kept getting wide open shots for a great shooter and he bricked a bunch of them....that just wouldn't be a very rewarding experience and you'd feel like the game was cheating you by trying to keep your stats down.

[blues rocker]

Re: One concern I do have about simulation mode...

my main concern right now is animation.while 2k10 has cool animation for layups and dunks,i dont want like 70-80% of the animation in 2k11 to be the same as 2k10.all the layups and dunks i see in this videos i see them in 2k10!

sorry for my bad english

I agree with what mrnoobie said. certain types of shots (layups and simple dunks) will always look the same because there is a certain way that every player performs a basic layup. the devs shouldn't be adding in all kinds of crazy unrealistic animations just because you want to see something new.

[Gosens6]

Re: One concern I do have about simulation mode...

true. I might have gone a bit overboard with the open shot success. maybe not 9 out of 10 open shots should go in...but I do think it should be 7 or 8 out of 10. I mean we are talking about a 90 rated shooter and he's WIDE OPEN. how annoying would it be if you kept getting wide open shots for a great shooter and he bricked a bunch of them....that just wouldn't be a very rewarding experience and you'd feel like the game was cheating you by trying to keep your stats down.

But what you're essentially saying is that great shooters aren't allowed to have off games. If we want 100% authentic NBA simulation, which I hope is what we all want. Guys miss, all the time. They can go 2-10 for one game, then 8-10 the next, it's all apart of the game.

I think others have used Ray Allen as an example but i'll do it again. Look at his performances in the playoffs the last few years. Some days he can't hit ANYTHING, wide open or not, then other games the guy will drop 8 straight on you.

I think people get spoiled hearing about what a great reputation a guy has for making shots and how good of a shooter he is but don't realize that everyone misses wide open shots, everyone has off games and 70-80% shooting even when WIDE open is not realistic.

[Epiffani]

Re: One concern I do have about simulation mode...

true. I might have gone a bit overboard with the open shot success. maybe not 9 out of 10 open shots should go in...but I do think it should be 7 or 8 out of 10. I mean we are talking about a 90 rated shooter and he's WIDE OPEN. how annoying would it be if you kept getting wide open shots for a great shooter and he bricked a bunch of them....that just wouldn't be a very rewarding experience and you'd feel like the game was cheating you by trying to keep your stats down.

And you're still way overboard IMO. I think NBA 2K10 had numbers along the lines that you are looking for in regards to the amount of open shots made, which was one of the main attributing factors to the high FG %'s across the board. I wouldn't find missing open shots in the least bit annoying nor will i say its "cheating" since there are so many other factors that are in play (is the player hot/cold, is he in his "spot" according to 82games.com, how was the user's form/release point, etc) and you see players missing open shots every single game that you swore that should have made IRL.

This is the tricky thing when people clamor for simulation in any sport, and its one thing that I've been saying for quite some time; I don't necessarily believe some who have called for games to be as simulation as possible really understand what they are asking for, and this is what leads to many people coming up with things and sayings/theories such as "come back codes" and "fixed gameplay." I've seen those accusations across all sports gaming genres with most of them trying to put out a "sim" product. This is where, and this is why I'm happy that 2K have went the route of trying to appease everyone by introducing different gaming styles in combination to a set difficulty. If you feel that your players should knock down 70-80-90% of there jumpers, I'm sure there's a gamestyle that will fulfill such a demand probably even simulation coupled with an easier difficulty. I just can't say that I'm in the same boat as wanting to knock down a set % of jumpers without factoring in other variables that each game presents.

[bearschicago]

Re: One concern I do have about simulation mode...

And you're still way overboard IMO. I think NBA 2K10 had numbers along the lines that you are looking for in regards to the amount of open shots made, which was one of the main attributing factors to the high FG %'s across the board. I wouldn't find missing open shots in the least bit annoying nor will i say its "cheating" since there are so many other factors that are in play (is the player hot/cold, is he in his "spot" according to 82games.com, how was the user's form/release point, etc) and you see players missing open shots every single game that you swore that should have made IRL.

This is the tricky thing when people clamor for simulation in any sport, and its one thing that I've been saying for quite some time; I don't necessarily believe some who have called for games to be as simulation as possible really understand what they are asking for, and this is what leads to many people coming up with things and sayings/theories such as "come back codes" and "fixed gameplay." I've seen those accusations across all sports gaming genres with most of them trying to put out a "sim" product. This is where, and this is why I'm happy that 2K have went the route of trying to appease everyone by introducing different gaming styles in combination to a set difficulty. If you feel that your players should knock down 70-80-90% of there jumpers, I'm sure there's a gamestyle that will fulfill such a demand probably even simulation coupled with an easier difficulty. I just can't say that I'm in the same boat as wanting to knock down a set % of jumpers without factoring in other variables that each game presents.

+1 You pretty much said everything I was going to say.

In the NBA even when you are wide open players constantly miss. I'm fine with that. The difference between an open shot and a contested shot is probably 5-15% or else more would shoot over 50%(for those taking at least 10 FGA).

A number of factors take into account even when wide open. You are playing through an injury/on the road so not as comfortable with the rims/what streak you are in/did you just enter the game/shooting within your range or hot spot/is it a clutch-pressure situation of the game/etc etc.

This is why the difference between a open shot and contested shot is not that big a jump.

[Gosens6]

Re: One concern I do have about simulation mode...

+1 You pretty much said everything I was going to say.

In the NBA even when you are wide open players constantly miss. I'm fine with that. The difference between an open shot and a contested shot is probably 5-15% or else more would shoot over 50%(for those taking at least 10 FGA).

A number of factors take into account even when wide open. You are playing through an injury/on the road so not as comfortable with the rims/what streak you are in/did you just enter the game/shooting within your range or hot spot/is it a clutch-pressure situation of the game/etc etc.

This is why the difference between a open shot and contested shot is not that big a jump.

I'm glad i'm not the only one in this boat and that others like you, eppifani and Czar understand what i'm saying.

I think this is the main reason we have different game styles this year. So people can play casual and shoot 70% and be happy, while we shoot 40-50% and love every minute of it.

[bearschicago]

Re: One concern I do have about simulation mode...

I'm glad i'm not the only one in this boat and that others like you, eppifani and Czar understand what i'm saying.

I think this is the main reason we have different game styles this year. So people can play casual and shoot 70% and be happy, while we shoot 40-50% and love every minute of it.

:wink:That's what we Sim-heads are

[blues rocker]

Re: One concern I do have about simulation mode...

But what you're essentially saying is that great shooters aren't allowed to have off games.

Yes, in a VIDEO GAME great shooters should not have an off game. If players start performing in ways that are not consistent with their skills, then what is the point of even playing the game at all? at that point you are not determining the result of the game with your own skill, you are instead simply watching a predetermined event occur that is completely out of your control...that completely defeats the purpose of playing video games entirely. THE ENTIRE POINT OF PLAYING VIDEO GAMES is that you are controlling the outcome based on what you are doing. if the game is just "playing itself" and executing random cold streaks, then I might as well not even bother playing it...at that point I might as well just watch a game on TV that is out of my control.

[Gosens6]

Re: One concern I do have about simulation mode...

Yes, in a VIDEO GAME great shooters should not have an off game. If players start performing in ways that are not consistent with their skills, then what is the point of even playing the game at all? at that point you are not determining the result of the game with your own skill, you are instead simply watching a predetermined event occur that is completely out of your control...that completely defeats the purpose of playing video games entirely. THE ENTIRE POINT OF PLAYING VIDEO GAMES is that you are controlling the outcome based on what you are doing. if the game is just "playing itself" and executing random cold streaks, then I might as well not even bother playing it...at that point I might as well just watch a game on TV that is out of my control.

Well like I said, this is why we have different game styles this year. I want simulation NBA ball where guys actually miss shots like they do in real life so i'll play sim style. You want to make most of your open shots so I can only assume you will be playing default.

To each their own, I understand what you're saying, you want to actually feel like you're playing a video game, while myself and others want what we see every day in the NBA. It's great that 2K gave us the option this year.

[bearschicago]

Re: One concern I do have about simulation mode...

Yes, in a VIDEO GAME great shooters should not have an off game. If players start performing in ways that are not consistent with their skills, then what is the point of even playing the game at all? at that point you are not determining the result of the game with your own skill, you are instead simply watching a predetermined event occur that is completely out of your control...that completely defeats the purpose of playing video games entirely. THE ENTIRE POINT OF PLAYING VIDEO GAMES is that you are controlling the outcome based on what you are doing. if the game is just "playing itself" and executing random cold streaks, then I might as well not even bother playing it...at that point I might as well just watch a game on TV that is out of my control.

You do know even in 2K10 it has cold streaks/hot streaks right? So if you miss a bunch of shots in a row the ball is frozen and if its the opposite, the ball is on fire.

[blues rocker]

Re: One concern I do have about simulation mode...

I think this is the main reason we have different game styles this year. So people can play casual and shoot 70% and be happy, while we shoot 40-50% and love every minute of it.

oh my god, you are not even reading what I typed at all. I dindn't say players should make 70% of their shots...i said that GREAT SHOOTERS should make 70% of their WIDE OPEN SHOTS. there is a big difference. most of the time you will not be getting a wide open shot, so the percentages will be dropped to normal levels because you will usually have a defender nearby.

I'm not saying I want a game where players shoot 70 percent. I want a game where I make my open shots, and I miss my contested shots. what I don't want is random cold streaks causing me to miss shots that are wide open over and over and over.

[Gosens6]

Re: One concern I do have about simulation mode...

oh my god, you are not even reading what I typed at all. I dindn't say players should make 70% of their shots...i said that GREAT SHOOTERS should make 70% of their WIDE OPEN SHOTS. there is a big difference. most of the time he will not be getting a wide open shot, so his percentages will be dropped to normal levels because he's being guarded.

I'm not saying I want a game where players shoot 70 percent. I want a game where I make my open shots, and I miss my contested shots. what I don't want is random cold streaks causing me to miss shots that are wide open.

See I don't think you're reading what I or anyone else is trying to explain to you. It doesn't matter how wide open anyone is. IDC if they're Reggie Miller or Kwame Brown, it's not guaranteed that a GREAT shooter will make 7 out of 10.

Shooters have off nights, just like they have great on fire nights. It seems like you just want one constant when it comes to great shooters and that's not how it is in real life. This is what we are all trying to explain to you, it doesn't matter how good of a shooter you are, it's not a guarantee they will go 7 for 10 or 1-10

Random cold and hot streaks are apart of the NBA. Why don't you understand that?

[threes_co]

Re: One concern I do have about simulation mode...

Well like I said, this is why we have different game styles this year. I want simulation NBA ball where guys actually miss shots like they do in real life so i'll play sim style. You want to make most of your open shots so I can only assume you will be playing default.

To each their own, I understand what you're saying, you want to actually feel like you're playing a video game, while myself and others want what we see every day in the NBA. It's great that 2K gave us the option this year.

You know NBA players do make most of their open shots, right?

[blues rocker]

Re: One concern I do have about simulation mode...

See I don't think you're reading what I or anyone else is trying to explain to you. It doesn't matter how wide open anyone is. IDC if they're Reggie Miller or Kwame Brown, it's not guaranteed that a GREAT shooter will make 7 out of 10.

Shooters have off nights, just like they have great on fire nights. It seems like you just want one constant when it comes to great shooters and that's not how it is in real life. This is what we are all trying to explain to you, it doesn't matter how good of a shooter you are, it's not a guarantee they will go 7 for 10 or 1-10

Random cold and hot streaks are apart of the NBA. Why don't you understand that?

so you're actually saying that you don't want to be able to determine the outcome of the game with your own actions? you just want to sit there and watch a scripted event occur that is out of your control? that is not a video game, my friend - that is a movie. what you are describing is a MOVIE disguised as a video game.

you might was well just sit there and watch the CPU play itself at that point.