Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

[BegBy]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

I'm not even going to address 90% of this post.

But I will say that you being 36 years old has nothing to do with your ability to play this game successfully. There are 20 year old kids that destroy in Super Street Fighter 4 - so b/c I'm older, I should be better? How about I clean up my execution and work on my game? It's not the exact same scenario but the concept holds true. Just b/c YOU can't do something doesn't even EVERYONE can't or NO ONE will.

Why can't you just not be good at the game?

Don't answer that.

I only used my age because it was used as an example to qualify an argument. I don't see how it's valid in one argument, but not in mine. More to the point, I don't see how that is rational, or even fair.

Why won't you reply to my post? I think it's valid in saying unless you provide a company with feedback, said company will assume the consumer's are happy and will maintain their current benchmark of quality. That's how business works, unless I don't fully understand something. That's not to say companies won't strive to achieve more, but typically companies that mass produce things for a profit try to do things as cost-effectively as possible, and again, if we are not saying we would like changes, it is cost-effective to do very little.

I am not crapping on VC at all. I think they have the best of intentions, and they have already pleasantly surprised me, and I am sure they will continue to do their best to fine tune their titles to suit their buyers' feedback. If that wasn't something they tried to maintain every year, I doubt we would be as loyal and as content as we are, as gamers.

OS and boards like it are an amazing avenue for consumers and programmers to figure out what they want. It may not always be a collective opinion, but it's far better than no opinion at all. It's an afforded luxury that not all working game titles/genres have, and for us not to use it is silly. I tip my hats to the people who run the boards, and to the game programmers who value it's opinions.

I can't clean up my execution in certain examples because there is quite frankly nothing more I can do, as per game design. I have no problem admitting I am not the best in the game, but I don't think I am "not good". I am biased, though, so I am not the best person to give an objective opinion about myself.

[BegBy]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

The "bumping" doesn't occur on every difficulty setting and even those that want it taken out completely admit that this is true. SO then WHY NOT JUST ADJUST THE SLIDERS!?!

It does happen on all difficulty settings, and no matter what you do to sliders, it still happens. No matter what you do to player attributes - it happens. I even tried playing the game while standing on my head, while throwing dishes at the ceiling, reciting the Canadian national anthem backwards, in Russian and it still happened.

After that, I don't know what else to do!!

[jmarcguy]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Honestly I'm pretty happy with the game. There are things that could be better but I love playing it. I'm waiting on a patch before I start my season but if there was none I'd be cool. I can't tell you how many times I replay a possession that really blew me away. Not a perfect game but very good. I'm pleased.

[NINJAK2]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Great post dipset!!! I agree 100%. I love 2k11, but it does have faults. My main gripes with the game are passing out of jumpshot and full court passing success along with spin dunks. These are mainly problems in user vs user games. If they can tweak these 3 game elements for the better I would be in heaven.

OS does more good than bad when the discussions remain intelligent and constructive. There is a difference between trying to help a game improve and just whining and complaining with no purpose coupled with insults of lazy and stupid leveled at the devs. There is a lot of the latter going on here imo.

[randombrother]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

dipset I read your posts and basically I could have saved you alot of finger wear and tear since I basically have all that you said in my sig. At least to some degree, may not be exactly. Great post man.

[luckeeloo]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Moderator, I appreciate your participation in the thread, but why is Begby not allowed to restate his point in the face of all of this other redundancy? Lots of posters (including you) are repeating themselves.

If you should take issue with anything, look no further than the subject line on this thread. Your forums, the forums we all use... ruining the game? To even pose the question is annoying. You guys who bought the game and chose to discuss some of the details on an internet forum are (gasp!) destroying it for everyone!

What I did take away from this thread is that it was perfectly okay to say that 2K is much worse after a roster update. You can say that to death, and many of you guys have. Just don't whine about anything else.

Basically... everything was perfect until the mean people posted on OS and the rosters got updated?!

[Pared]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

BegBy and I have discussed what he mentioned via PM. It didn't have complete relation to this thread.

The rest of your post is in similar vein. If you'd like to discuss something about how the forums are run, utilize the PM feature and don't side-track a thread please.

As for the roster update issue, we have locked threads that go back and forth with each roster update. If you see a thread that you feel should be locked for whatever reason (such as breaking the TOS) then report it.

[Court_vision]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Some of you fellas just will never enjoy the game...fact.

It's unfortunate, but it's reality.

Honestly, and i said this two months before release, if you want 100% perfection you may as well give up. It won't ever happen.

If you've played NBA games for as long as I have then you should just be sitting back, smiling, and enjoying this game as it's the best NBA game to date by so far as to not even be close. I am loving it.

For those looking for perfection or letting the odd thing ruin it for them...maybe it's time to do something else?

[dipset2050]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Moderator, I appreciate your participation in the thread, but why is Begby not allowed to restate his point in the face of all of this other redundancy? Lots of posters (including you) are repeating themselves.

If you should take issue with anything, look no further than the subject line on this thread. Your forums, the forums we all use... ruining the game? To even pose the question is annoying. You guys who bought the game and chose to discuss some of the details on an internet forum are (gasp!) destroying it for everyone!

What I did take away from this thread is that it was perfectly okay to say that 2K is much worse after a roster update. You can say that to death, and many of you guys have. Just don't whine about anything else.

Basically... everything was perfect until the mean people posted on OS and the rosters got updated?!

I don't get where I said that the game was worse...........I said I don't understand WHY the rosters were even changed so soon after release for a game most had never played.

I don't see how people are missing the fact that all I said was that maybe we should at least play the daggone game for, oh I don't know - a week before see people post things like:

Patch request thread (on launch day no less)

PLEASE FIX LEBRAONS SOKS!!!!!!!!!! (Not even gonna touch this one)

Is NBA 2K11 too sim? (Unbelievable)

And thread after thread as to why someone can't get the exact same box score from last season's match-ups like these games are supposed to be instant replays.

Lastly, I don't understand how the title is annoying......I mean are you saying you DON'T think that the roster update was geared towards feedback received mere days after release? The season hadn't even started yet! Never had we seen the rosters changed so dramatically BEFORE the season tipped. Is it too far to tie in that maybe "we" collectively had something to do with it?

I think many are missing the point. All I've said repeatedly is that we should watch what we request in these patches and watch what we do on these forums b/c whether you want to admit it or not, they are DIRECTLY affecting the landscape of this season's sports gaming and probably into the foreseeable future.

I'm assuming based on your post that you do not agree.

[dipset2050]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Some of you fellas just will never enjoy the game...fact.

It's unfortunate, but it's reality.

Honestly, and i said this two months before release, if you want 100% perfection you may as well give up. It won't ever happen.

If you've played NBA games for as long as I have then you should just be sitting back, smiling, and enjoying this game as it's the best NBA game to date by so far as to not even be close. I am loving it.

For those looking for perfection or letting the odd thing ruin it for them...maybe it's time to do something else?

That's all I've been trying to say. It's like people don't even want to have to watch an actual real life basketball game. Or even have to really play basketball. The game will NEVER be good enough.

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Sam, I feel what you're saying and yes, EA has let us all down. The NCAA team is at least trying though. To compare EA (in regards to sports titles) to 2K is honestly an insult in my opinion. EA has pretty much admitted through their actions that they want NO PART of 2K in regards to competition.

My response was only geared toward pointing out that cooperate innovation is largely not as "natural" or unaffected as what you stated. Innovation usually occurs because of varying kinds of pressure placed on the firm. EA and VC are two perfect examples. EA has no pressure in its Madden franchise and therefore has no profitable reason to invest the time, talent, and money it takes to do so. Its market share is static. VC is in (or was lol, up until this year) the exact opposite position. They have every reason in the world to be ahead of the curve because if they don't they could very easily find themselves with shrinking profits and decreased customer confidence. Because basketball tends to be a fierce market in terms of competition (consumers tend not to be particularly loyal, the best game wins. Just 8 years ago EA had a stranglehold on the market and now...) a prolonged downward shift could make it increasingly harder for a company to even bet back in the game.


For me personally, 2K has never let me down. Keep in mind that me and my friends have realistic expectations yet find ourselves saying every year "What could they POSSIBLY do for next year!". In fact - how could they have disappointed this year with all the changes??? NEVER has a sports title done so much in one calendar year (but obviously some of us in here don't appreciate the effort.....) as 2K11.

What does "appreciate the effort" mean? I'll address this further in my response to what you next say.

Have them made mistakes - of course! Never has the game (or any) been FLAWLESS and it NEVER WILL BE. But the games as a whole are progressively better than the last and the level of control and presentation. Yes, it's due to our feedback ON SOME LEVEL but to praise ourselves for THEIR WORK is absolutely ridiculous. They code and they program and they test and they invest their personal time for our game - you (meaning all of us) type gibberish on a forum. Yes, they make a paycheck but these guys aren't all driving Bugatis or Maybachs.

This paragraph is off base. What you say might be true for Joe Blo who happens to have internet access and types on a forum but the basketball gaming community as a whole has a number of truly knowledgeable people who give quality feedback. Do you think companys invite these people in to give feedback on their games just for the hell of it? Of course these guys shouldn't be getting huge chunks of credit but their contributions make a difference. Secondly, NBA 2k11 isn't "our game" it is a product. Its a product that at one time had stiff competition. The amount of time and energy the folks over at VC put into it is not, in large part, of the good Samaritan type. Sure they have a lot of people who love basketball and love gamers. But make no mistake, VC is a for profit organization. And they know full well that what happened to EA wasn't some anomaly that could never happen again. Please believe, they understand why it happened and how it could happen to any company. They pool their resources accordingly.

(Why do you think they were able to make such quick work of EA in both basketball and football? It surely wasn't mostly because they felt sorry for sports gamers. They saw a crack in the EA Sports business model blew a crater in it. They saw potential profits. Thats what keeps the lights on. Not feelings and caring, although those things can help achieve the overall objective.)


I guess you can call me a company man for 2K b/c they've earned that amount of respect from me and MANY gamers including critics for their game. This game is routinely better than its direct competition and 99% of the sports titles (MLB The Show is the well.......the show! LOL!). Statements like....

Again, this wasn't accomplished because they love you.

"If you can make money by doing minimal effort and spending little money to rectify any problems they may have, then that it what they will do, and it's what they do now." ....are exactly what I'm talking about. B/C people can't do something well in a video game its now the game's fault. Now the game's not "sim". Its a complete failure and should never have been released in this condition. People are acting like they OWE YOU SOMETHING. They don't OWE YOU anything. You bought the disc - if you don't like it - take it back and never buy it again. They don't OWE you a patch. They don't OWE you Developer Insights. They don't HAVE to take your requests. They don't HAVE to read forums. Why? B/C as shown with "other" successful titles, they could release a roster update on a new disc and get money. But they don't do you like that - much like Valve and Bungie try hard no to do that (MS is the reason Bungie has so many "map packs").

The underlying ethics principle that determines whether or not firms "owe" consumers in the way you're describing is a matter of fierce debate across many business schools of thought. It certainly isn't settled but there needs to be a key question and distinction made here: Firms exist solely for the purpose of turning profits. So the question is would it be in the firm's best interest to approach its research, development and marketing with the mindset that they don't owe the consumer anything? The answer is no. It is a proven fact that taking a positive interest in what the consumer thinks and whats will definitely increase profits ( and market share if the competition does not). Again, developer insights, patches and the like are not things companys do out of the goodness of their hearts. They have entire teams devoted to addressing how they can endear themselves to their customers and implement feedback for the sole purpose of giving you what you want so you will buy their product. Many companies do this (I have personally sat in some of the meetings). What you say is true, they don't "have" to do these things. But, if they are interested in maximize profit, they will.


The "bumping" doesn't occur on every difficulty setting and even those that want it taken out completely admit that this is true. SO then WHY NOT JUST ADJUST THE SLIDERS!?! People say the fastbreaks dry up on higher difficulties THEN WHY NOT ADJUST THE SLIDERS?!? Why not simply customize the game to your liking? They're not making YOU a personal copy of the game. And plenty of bumping happens in basketball - are you kidding me???? Maybe when you're playing pick up games and you can call your own fouls then yeah, everything is a foul. But trust that people aren't hitting the deck on the NCAA and NBA hardwood from the air conditioning.

Lol, there is actually another thread thats become quite popular that addresses this. The OP believe gamers should leave the sliders alone. (The Fight's "Rage" Thread) In any case, I've already addressed how I think higher difficulty should be translated in a basketball simulation game. Three difficulty settings, preseason, regular season, and playoffs should be the way to go. Instead of the ridiculous boosts for the CPU and reductions of user controlled teams you should have game difficulty reflected they way it is in the NBA. By level of intensity and talent.

...........

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

I'd also like to point out that I'm talking about feedback that comes from quality gamers with knowledge of the sport. They tend to get lumped with Jo Blo sock glitch. Also, most reasonable folks agree on the fact this is on the short list of phenomenal sports games. But there are some frustrating problems that are holding it back.

[edubbs]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Couldn't be any happier with this years game. I can make a new thread almost daily on some of the game's weaknesses but, I would rather enjoy playing it instead.

2K went above and beyond my expectations this year gameplay wise, and I can't oversstate how much I love this years game.

I've played them all, and this years game makes me realise why I'm still playing sports games after all these years.

It took awhile but, 2k11 was definately worth the wait.

Easily, the best basketball game I've ever played. Even with it's flaws.