The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

[JerzeyReign]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

LoL, I wasn't going that detailed into the generation thing... just the days when Nintendo was the ish with Contra, then came the groundbreaking days of the Sega Genisis and Super Nintendo

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

The problem this game has with passing has everything to do with user control. You have zero influence over the type of pass you want to make and the game can sometimes do a poor job of selecting it for you. The passing mechanics are also prone to being slow to respond and inaccurate. When you combine this with dumb teammate AI (a fantastic way to translsate difficulty dont't you know) on higher difficulties and the CPU's exceptional reflexes you can wind up with a pretty frustrating experience. None of the issues I just mentioned have anything to do with "playing smarter basketball".

[Maxflier]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

I would be one happy camper if they would just fix the game so that you always pass to the guy in the direction you are pressing.

[Phins86]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

I dont want to make this a marathon read so i'll be as direct as possible. There are specifically 2 complaints I keep seeing on these boards that i'd like to address and prove that people are overreacting.

Passing - To all the complainers: VALUE POSSESSION OF THE BALL. The fact that you're passing the ball around without discretion, which leads to turnovers, is not a patch-worthy glitch. Value the ball. Make smart passes. Dont force passes into lanes that arent open. Think like a basketball player. If that doesnt work, make the CPU Play Passing Lanes slider 0 and call it a day.

Association Trades: My biggest problem with Associations in past 2Ks has been this: TOO MANY TRADES. For instance, last year in my Association Jameer Nelson was traded 5 times in the first season. The last team he got traded to? You guessed it: The Magic! So he pretty much toured the NBA to end up right back where he started. Trades had no rhyme. No reason. Just trades for the sake of trades...
Well enter NBA2K11. Now trades arent made senselessly. They have rhyme. Even if isn't immediately obvious, they have reason. If a team is content with the talent and mix that they have, they stand pat. This is what any good GM would do. The Lakers have just won 2 straight NBA titles and they havent made a trade in over 2 years (Gasol). No more senseless trades in Association. But if you read the boards here you'll see that most people want a trade quota. They need "10-15 trades a year". And i say, i'd rather no trades than 15 trades that make zero sense. Less is more.

Let me end this by again thanking 2K for making the greatest basketball game Ive ever played and pleading for them to not overreact to the unjustified complaints from some of the people on these boards. There is a large demographic that understand and appreciate the steps 2K has made to make this game more realistic. Sometimes certain gamers need to step back and realize the game is not broken, but they might be.

Agreed

I'm averaging less than 9 turnovers a game... ADAPT people

[joel0078]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

the problem with the passing is, yes, if you use lead passing, pass very carefully, intelligently, sure, you can siginficantly cut down the amount of turnovers and stolen passes. I know it works for me. but when you do this, you will only be able to play a slow-pace offense. you ca't play an up tempo, fast-break style offense because this game discourages any sort of passing in traffic and you will get your passes stolen. if any of you use a high octane, fast break based offense like the suns or warriors and you can run and gun with little turnover i would love to hear your tips.

This post is $$$$$. What a great argument to the guys who think this is just a matter of not using lead passing, or TCP for that matter.

[joel0078]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

Gotta agree with this. You are responsible for bad passes, for the majority. Some are just stupid though. On a 3 on 2 break and the defender blindly throws his arm up to deflect the ball right to himself...not a fan of that.

No other gripes from me

Ultimately this is the bottom line. The computer feels like it has an advantage, defensively. And for the most part, that would be okay with me, if my AI controlled team mates played as smart (defensively) as the computer.

I'm probably older than most of you here. And yeah, I still enjoy playing video games! This isn't a "generational" issue. I don't think the game is "broken", nor do I think the users are "broken". I just think the computers "D" is a little to strong at times. I believe some of you when you say "I haven't seen this or that". I'm the same way about some of the other complaints. I scratch my head wondering what they are talking about....It's a matter of preference I guess.

We all have different opinions about this, but ultimately if you find a majority of people complaining about one issue, it probably holds some validity. It doesn't have to be a matter of laziness or bad gaming habits, it's more a matter of if A LOT of consumers are having trouble with it (regardless of difficulty level) then its in the companies best interest to tune it.

On the other hand, more times than not a patch creates another problem. So I can't say that I'd want a patch to fix the steal issue, not knowing what problem it will create. The steal problem does not make the game unplayable or any less enjoyable, IMO. I just wish people would stop using the "you're a complainer" card and acting like they are just so much better than everyone else. You're not. And it doesn't make me or anyone else a complainer because we pointed out a frustrating (at times) flaw.....Now I'm gonna go back to my association...I got a classic bulls vs knicks match up to play!!!!

[erickonasis]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

another thing is the turnovers work BOTH ways...i ve had the CPU make bad passes as well do to me jumping the lanes. there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with passing ...

[LionsFanNJ]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

My only problem with passing is the CPU passes are ALWAYS perfect. So i lowered pass accuracy(WHAT?!) and now i'm seeing fumbled and bad passes by the CPU. Now it feels fair that both sides throw s*** passes.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

Ultimately this is the bottom line. The computer feels like it has an advantage, defensively. And for the most part, that would be okay with me, if my AI controlled team mates played as smart (defensively) as the computer.

I'm probably older than most of you here. And yeah, I still enjoy playing video games! This isn't a "generational" issue. I don't think the game is "broken", nor do I think the users are "broken". I just think the computers "D" is a little to strong at times. I believe some of you when you say "I haven't seen this or that". I'm the same way about some of the other complaints. I scratch my head wondering what they are talking about....It's a matter of preference I guess.

We all have different opinions about this, but ultimately if you find a majority of people complaining about one issue, it probably holds some validity. It doesn't have to be a matter of laziness or bad gaming habits, it's more a matter of if A LOT of consumers are having trouble with it (regardless of difficulty level) then its in the companies best interest to tune it.

On the other hand, more times than not a patch creates another problem. So I can't say that I'd want a patch to fix the steal issue, not knowing what problem it will create. The steal problem does not make the game unplayable or any less enjoyable, IMO. I just wish people would stop using the "you're a complainer" card and acting like they are just so much better than everyone else. You're not. And it doesn't make me or anyone else a complainer because we pointed out a frustrating (at times) flaw.....Now I'm gonna go back to my association...I got a classic bulls vs knicks match up to play!!!!

Good post. I have no issues when people voice their concerns in a mature, and intelligent manner. What we do see around here though is so much bashing and outright seething hate it get's old quickly and is so uncalled for in discussing a game of this quality and depth. Coming from a Gen X'er and playing on the Atari 2600 for years as a child this is like dying going to heaven.

As far as the bolded parts. I remember when MLB The Show 2009 came out and 7 out of 10 consumers (not hardcore baseball video gamers like myself) giving comments saying and screaming they can' hit or pitch. I am so happy this was never really patched. The art of hitting on that game is the best part of the entire experience. It is a sim, not a timed button masher. If you wanted hit's or HRs galore you could buy The Bigs. This was a game for the hardcore baseball fans and guys who also play the game (me). We understood the art of guessing location, pitch type, working counts, understanding matchups, when to hit on the ground, when to try to hit in the air etc etc. That game captures the essence of that skill like no other baseball game. And pitching on the classic setting or even the meter is a real treat. Sometimes your pitcher just does not have it. Even if you timed your button pushes perfectly they still threw balls. Well that happens in real life. Pitchers have perfect form but don't have their best stuff. Same with hitting. You could really smoke a pitch, but it finds a glove 7 out of 10 times. That's baseball.

NBA2K11 to me is a B-Ball game that is for the hardcore player. It is a game that has so much soul you can feel it and see it coming out of the screen.

Once I started playing it like a real basketball game and not a video game the turnovers went down 70%. I was, like many having problems with bad passing. Now I am not going to deny there are some quirks with it. But there is nothing that is ruining the game at all in the passing mechaincs. I am using icon, TCP, and lead passing, being very mindful of where I am passing, with whom and to whom I am passing to as well. What a world of difference. I am getting out on the break now as well. It's not a fast break dunk fest and that's great. The game has amazing balance.

So like you I really hope 2K does not patch this game in regards to gameplay tuning. The game is a joy like The Show. Players either need to turn down the difficulty, or sliders or both and stop the constant cries that the game is broken. It's not. The slient majority are thourghly engrossed with the game and playing it hours on end and hooting and hollering in joy as we go down the court and hit that sweet pass to our sharp shooter sitting in the corner and draining a three, running the perfect play or isoing to the hoop for a posterizing dunk!

Is it perfect? Of course not. But this is the closet to perfection any basketball game has ever been and this is a groundbreaking title and one of the best sports games in the history of video gaming.

[joel0078]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

Good post. I have no issues when people voice their concerns in a mature, and intelligent manner. What we do see around here though is so much bashing and outright seething hate it get's old quickly and is so uncalled for in discussing a game of this quality and depth. Coming from a Gen X'er and playing on the Atari 2600 for years as a child this is like dying going to heaven.

As far as the bolded parts. I remember when MLB The Show 2009 came out and 7 out of 10 consumers (not hardcore baseball video gamers like myself) giving comments saying and screaming they can' hit or pitch. I am so happy this was never really patched. The art of hitting on that game is the best part of the entire experience. It is a sim, not a timed button masher. If you wanted hit's or HRs galore you could buy The Bigs. This was a game for the hardcore baseball fans and guys who also play the game (me). We understood the art of guessing location, pitch type, working counts, understanding matchups, when to hit on the ground, when to try to hit in the air etc etc. That game captures the essence of that skill like no other baseball game. And pitching on the classic setting or even the meter is a real treat. Sometimes your pitcher just does not have it. Even if you timed your button pushes perfectly they still threw balls. Well that happens in real life. Pitchers have perfect form but don't have their best stuff. Same with hitting. You could really smoke a pitch, but it finds a glove 7 out of 10 times. That's baseball.

NBA2K11 to me is a B-Ball game that is for the hardcore player. It is a game that has so much soul you can feel it and see it coming out of the screen.

Once I started playing it like a real basketball game and not a video game the turnovers went down 70%. I was, like many having problems with bad passing. Now I am not going to deny there are some quirks with it. But there is nothing that is ruining the game at all in the passing mechaincs. I am using icon, TCP, and lead passing, being very mindful of where I am passing, with whom and to whom I am passing to as well. What a world of difference. I am getting out on the break now as well. It's not a fast break dunk fest and that's great. The game has amazing balance.

So like you I really hope 2K does not patch this game in regards to gameplay tuning. The game is a joy like The Show. Players either need to turn down the difficulty, or sliders or both and stop the constant cries that the game is broken. It's not. The slient majority are thourghly engrossed with the game and playing it hours on end and hooting and hollering in joy as we go down the court and hit that sweet pass to our sharp shooter sitting in the corner and draining a three, running the perfect play or isoing to the hoop for a posterizing dunk!

Is it perfect? Of course not. But this is the closet to perfection any basketball game has ever been and this is a groundbreaking title and one of the best sports games in the history of video gaming.

Yeah, I'm sure somewhere out there this can all be "fixed" through slider adjustments. It's just a matter of finding that perfect slider set.

Regarding your comment about all the bashing here, yeah, that's true, big time. I know it's off topic, but when I first signed up here, it was mostly mature individuals sharing opinions in a mature way. Over the last few years it seems like all the guys from IGN have jumped ship and made their way over here and brought their immature tendencies with them. Sometimes it's just painful to have to read some of their posts. It's ridiculous.

[The Fight]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

I disagree with the OP, passes shouldn't be this hard, granted you should make smart decisions but the CPU should at least be facing the ball when they steal it. NBA2K11 is a good game but I wish people would stop trying to act like it's a 10 and doesn't have flaws.

I'm not under the impression that most people in this forum run plays (purposely). I think a lot of the problems that I see when people play against me and they throw the ball all over the place *i play HOF* is that they just don't understand floor spacing (and dont call plays). I end up playing zone (not 2-3) when I want to take advantage of this.

There are decisive risk and reward elements based on how you play in this game and if you dont PRACTICE, you'll be taken advantage of by people who do. about 75% of my lead passes and TC Passing brings the recipient CLOSER to the passer and land me in triple threat when I catch it. THATS CRUCIAL, you make yourself a threat and make people play you honestly, which keeps some defenders out of the lanes you want to pass to/thru.

Some of you don't think that far, some didn't even know triple threat was even in the game others probably think triple threat is an unlockable player in blacktop. Either case, if you find it too difficult to pass, play rookie.

[jlbrown143]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

to me everything has a solution.....you know the funny thing to me is that alot of the complaint blogs I read, but I still continue to play the game just as if I haven't read anything..lol

now seriously I have seen some passes that have been erratic, but every time or every other time?...nah.... I haven't increased or decreased anything for passes and I am fine with the game...timing and spacing as Czar eluded to in his blog is crucial for passing success....now if you want to make a case for having different options on the type of passes you can do on demand then I agree with that, but some of you guys...StILL need to practice some things out...passing is not that problematic once you get under control with your game......funny stuff...how is a game that is light years ahead of any sports game to date...so broken all of a sudden...(maybe I just don't understand)...lol

[NDAlum]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

another thing is the turnovers work BOTH ways...i ve had the CPU make bad passes as well do to me jumping the lanes. there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with passing ...

You play on HOF and kill the computer so you clearly are the best 2K player on the boards. You are an outlier and your opinion is honestly washed away by how good you are.

I agree there's nothing wrong with passing. I do see an issue which is stated in my below response.

I fully accept responsibility for throwing a bad pass and having it stolen as I've thrown many bad passes.

Good post. I have no issues when people voice their concerns in a mature, and intelligent manner. What we do see around here though is so much bashing and outright seething hate it get's old quickly and is so uncalled for in discussing a game of this quality and depth. Coming from a Gen X'er and playing on the Atari 2600 for years as a child this is like dying going to heaven.

As far as the bolded parts. I remember when MLB The Show 2009 came out and 7 out of 10 consumers (not hardcore baseball video gamers like myself) giving comments saying and screaming they can' hit or pitch. I am so happy this was never really patched. The art of hitting on that game is the best part of the entire experience. It is a sim, not a timed button masher. If you wanted hit's or HRs galore you could buy The Bigs. This was a game for the hardcore baseball fans and guys who also play the game (me). We understood the art of guessing location, pitch type, working counts, understanding matchups, when to hit on the ground, when to try to hit in the air etc etc. That game captures the essence of that skill like no other baseball game. And pitching on the classic setting or even the meter is a real treat. Sometimes your pitcher just does not have it. Even if you timed your button pushes perfectly they still threw balls. Well that happens in real life. Pitchers have perfect form but don't have their best stuff. Same with hitting. You could really smoke a pitch, but it finds a glove 7 out of 10 times. That's baseball.

NBA2K11 to me is a B-Ball game that is for the hardcore player. It is a game that has so much soul you can feel it and see it coming out of the screen.

Once I started playing it like a real basketball game and not a video game the turnovers went down 70%. I was, like many having problems with bad passing. Now I am not going to deny there are some quirks with it. But there is nothing that is ruining the game at all in the passing mechaincs. I am using icon, TCP, and lead passing, being very mindful of where I am passing, with whom and to whom I am passing to as well. What a world of difference. I am getting out on the break now as well. It's not a fast break dunk fest and that's great. The game has amazing balance.

So like you I really hope 2K does not patch this game in regards to gameplay tuning. The game is a joy like The Show. Players either need to turn down the difficulty, or sliders or both and stop the constant cries that the game is broken. It's not. The slient majority are thourghly engrossed with the game and playing it hours on end and hooting and hollering in joy as we go down the court and hit that sweet pass to our sharp shooter sitting in the corner and draining a three, running the perfect play or isoing to the hoop for a posterizing dunk!

Is it perfect? Of course not. But this is the closet to perfection any basketball game has ever been and this is a groundbreaking title and one of the best sports games in the history of video gaming.

This post was clearly to state your love for the game, as it shines through. I too am really enjoying my experience with NBA 2K11.

I would rather there be no patch than a patch for a small, isolated issue which may cause other problems.

I agree it is as close to perfection as I've ever seen in a basketball game, or any sports game for that matter.

With that said I stand by my belief there is an issue with defenders having the ole "eyes in the back of their head" when defending passes. It's part of the game and not a huge deal, but it's definitely annoying on a fast break when you have numbers and this issue shows its face.

[ILLSmak]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

It's like this man...

I was watching this the other night just to find footage of how other people played the game. You know this dude... I mean you have to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v665sVxFQzQ

Here's him playing HoF/Sim. The only times he turns it over is when he makes a stupid pass, no doubt.

But the majority of things that he does do not feel like basketball at all. I like to break down the D with crossovers sometimes, sure. But I also like to step back and hit a jumper. I don't want every play to be driving hard at the rim and making a dump off pass or a kick out for a jumper.

The game isn't broken, it's just flawed. The flaw in 2k is that they have reached the ceiling of their game. They probably did this a few years ago. No doubt, they have improved 2k11 A LOT and I really appreciate their effort. I really like all of the subtle touches they added, but the core of the game is still the same.

They still have too aggressive defense on the perimeter. Guys pushing you around like it's 1985. And they still have absurd finishes once you get past the initial defender. The defense is extremely mechanical and it makes no mistakes. They added a few stumble animations, but I don't think they really work well enough. That's why people play off the ball defense because the computer plays so well against itself that it actually stifles itself.

If you can let the computer cut off all of the driving lanes or subtle mistakes you would be making and hawk the play they will eventually try to run, you can get the steal more often than not.

It's really amazing what 2k has done with their game. It was once the best, only a few changes away from being perfect. And 2k11 came and did change a lot of those things, but they still didn't change the insane defense, the offensive isolation AI, or the crazy dunking/jumping.

I was playing a game w/ and took a post up shot with Shaq, I knew when I released it that it was going to be off, so immediately tried to jump to get it back. What followed was Shaq exploding off the ground and grabbing the ball for an offensive interference. I went to replay and yes, his head was about 8 inches above the rim.

Stuff like that doesn't bother people, apparently. They like the animations. They like the way jumpers look and the way the ball goes through the hoop. NO DOUBT, I like it too. It's awesome. There are times when it LOOKS like you are playing real basketball. A casual bball fan might say wow... is that a real game? But they still haven't made it FEEL like real basketball and that's why I am always bitching about it. I want 2k to finish their game instead of adding new situational animations.

The defense NEEDS to be changed, and the deflections are probably the smallest issue in the bigger picture.

-Smak

[ILLSmak]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

You play on HOF and kill the computer so you clearly are the best 2K player on the boards.

^ WATCH YOUR MOUTH SON!! lol, nah but... you can't kill the computer. It's impossible. The computer is designed to win on the highest difficulty, period. There is no way you can kill it. You can have a tight game with them and maybe squeak out a few of them.

BUT you can exploit the computer. Easily. I'd like someone to prove me wrong. Post a video of you beating the HoF computer by 20 and do it in a way that isn't exploiting and I'll say I'm wrong.

I've made a living of exploiting the computer on the highest difficulty, and I admit I can't do it on this year's game because I haven't put the time into realizing what they don't know how to defend against. But whatever... point being, his opinion is not helpful not because of his skill but because he doesn't play the way you imagine one would play the game. He has mastered 'the game' and it's not by playing basketball.

Post a video if you are gonna say "No, I play straight up sim!" I don't believe you. I don't think it's possible. You can beat the cpu on HoF by playing smart, but in order to beat them in a way that would be classified as killing them, you gotta exploit them.

-Smak