The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

[BroMontana82]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

the original post is naive and blanket statements don't help. he say's large demographic to justify his own personal opinion which may or may not be the majority view. come on...yeah the game's not completely broken but certain elements certainly have bugs or don't work the way they were intended to. a few examples to look are the fast breaks or the POT rating and impact on progression / trade value.

[NDAlum]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

^ WATCH YOUR MOUTH SON!! lol, nah but... you can't kill the computer. It's impossible. The computer is designed to win on the highest difficulty, period. There is no way you can kill it. You can have a tight game with them and maybe squeak out a few of them.

BUT you can exploit the computer. Easily. I'd like someone to prove me wrong. Post a video of you beating the HoF computer by 20 and do it in a way that isn't exploiting and I'll say I'm wrong.

I've made a living of exploiting the computer on the highest difficulty, and I admit I can't do it on this year's game because I haven't put the time into realizing what they don't know how to defend against. But whatever... point being, his opinion is not helpful not because of his skill but because he doesn't play the way you imagine one would play the game. He has mastered 'the game' and it's not by playing basketball.

Post a video if you are gonna say "No, I play straight up sim!" I don't believe you. I don't think it's possible. You can beat the cpu on HoF by playing smart, but in order to beat them in a way that would be classified as killing them, you gotta exploit them.

-Smak

If memory serves me correct, he regularly states how easy the game is. Personally I'd like to see a video of how he plays the game.

I am confident he states he beats the CPU with ease on HOF.

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

It's like this man...

I was watching this the other night just to find footage of how other people played the game. You know this dude... I mean you have to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v665sVxFQzQ

Here's him playing HoF/Sim. The only times he turns it over is when he makes a stupid pass, no doubt.

But the majority of things that he does do not feel like basketball at all. I like to break down the D with crossovers sometimes, sure. But I also like to step back and hit a jumper. I don't want every play to be driving hard at the rim and making a dump off pass or a kick out for a jumper.

The game isn't broken, it's just flawed. The flaw in 2k is that they have reached the ceiling of their game. They probably did this a few years ago. No doubt, they have improved 2k11 A LOT and I really appreciate their effort. I really like all of the subtle touches they added, but the core of the game is still the same.

They still have too aggressive defense on the perimeter. Guys pushing you around like it's 1985. And they still have absurd finishes once you get past the initial defender. The defense is extremely mechanical and it makes no mistakes. They added a few stumble animations, but I don't think they really work well enough. That's why people play off the ball defense because the computer plays so well against itself that it actually stifles itself.

If you can let the computer cut off all of the driving lanes or subtle mistakes you would be making and hawk the play they will eventually try to run, you can get the steal more often than not.

It's really amazing what 2k has done with their game. It was once the best, only a few changes away from being perfect. And 2k11 came and did change a lot of those things, but they still didn't change the insane defense, the offensive isolation AI, or the crazy dunking/jumping.

I was playing a game w/ and took a post up shot with Shaq, I knew when I released it that it was going to be off, so immediately tried to jump to get it back. What followed was Shaq exploding off the ground and grabbing the ball for an offensive interference. I went to replay and yes, his head was about 8 inches above the rim.

Stuff like that doesn't bother people, apparently. They like the animations. They like the way jumpers look and the way the ball goes through the hoop. NO DOUBT, I like it too. It's awesome. There are times when it LOOKS like you are playing real basketball. A casual bball fan might say wow... is that a real game? But they still haven't made it FEEL like real basketball and that's why I am always bitching about it. I want 2k to finish their game instead of adding new situational animations.

The defense NEEDS to be changed, and the deflections are probably the smallest issue in the bigger picture.

-Smak

Great post man.

[BroMontana82]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

Great post man.

definitely agreed.

[The Fight]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

^ WATCH YOUR MOUTH SON!! lol, nah but... you can't kill the computer. It's impossible. The computer is designed to win on the highest difficulty, period. There is no way you can kill it. You can have a tight game with them and maybe squeak out a few of them.

BUT you can exploit the computer. Easily. I'd like someone to prove me wrong. Post a video of you beating the HoF computer by 20 and do it in a way that isn't exploiting and I'll say I'm wrong.

I've made a living of exploiting the computer on the highest difficulty, and I admit I can't do it on this year's game because I haven't put the time into realizing what they don't know how to defend against. But whatever... point being, his opinion is not helpful not because of his skill but because he doesn't play the way you imagine one would play the game. He has mastered 'the game' and it's not by playing basketball.

Post a video if you are gonna say "No, I play straight up sim!" I don't believe you. I don't think it's possible. You can beat the cpu on HoF by playing smart, but in order to beat them in a way that would be classified as killing them, you gotta exploit them.

-Smak

It is possible to beat the computer by 20+ without using exploits. I just beat the grizz and the celtics by 23 and 18 (ray ray messed up my dub) respectively with the Hawks.

*I play HOF/Sim/70 GS/ 100 Free throw/ shot stick timing/ 10 minutes/ No other slider changes*

I don't have a screen capture device yet, but, i plan on getting one *Czar videos inspired me and I really just want to shut people up*. I don't mind using the old Sprint touch pro camcorder either but the quality wont be there.

[fzdoom]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

the original post is naive and blanket statements don't help. he say's large demographic to justify his own personal opinion which may or may not be the majority view. come on...yeah the game's not completely broken but certain elements certainly have bugs or don't work the way they were intended to. a few examples to look are the fast breaks or the POT rating and impact on progression / trade value.

When i said large demographic i was including everyone i personally know who has and loves the game and everyone on these boards who i've seen share the same sentiment.

Of course, any game released this generation always has minor bugs that will end up being patched. I just dont want the two issues i discussed patched.

[ILLSmak]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

It is possible to beat the computer by 20+ without using exploits. I just beat the grizz and the celtics by 23 and 18 (ray ray messed up my dub) respectively with the Hawks.

*I play HOF/Sim/70 GS/ 100 Free throw/ shot stick timing/ 10 minutes/ No other slider changes*

I don't have a screen capture device yet, but, i plan on getting one *Czar videos inspired me and I really just want to shut people up*. I don't mind using the old Sprint touch pro camcorder either but the quality wont be there.

I don't believe it. Post the box score and the team stats?

We all differ as to what we believe is an exploit. Exploit has a negative connotation because of people online who do the same cheesy stuff. But tricking the computer is 'exploiting' it. Off-ball Hawking steals is exploiting the cpu, doing the same play over and over again is exploiting the cpu. One can even say that if you know what play the computer is going to run that it's exploiting the cpu because they run the play as if you don't know it.

Point is, that's not skill so much as experience.


Unless you are totally beasting on offensive rebounds (more of a team thing than a skill thing) or making like 60% of your shots, it's hard to imagine that you are beating the computer on HoF/Sim without taking advantage of it. If you play the game fairly (which probably isn't even possible because you can't erase the knowledge of what the computer is going to do or what works and what doesn't), the computer will likely beat you or will give you a close game.

HoF and most highest difficulties in games are an overcompensation in difficulty. They know the AI will never be smarter than a human so they make it so that they make more shots, get more blocks... etc. But if you circumvent this by say... stealing the ball before they can take a shot or doing a move/play that they do not know how to react to... then you are exploiting the computer.

Edit: Also not sure what effect 70GS has on the game... if it makes it harder or easier, or neither.

-Smak

[Radja]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

i am wondering how many of you are struggling with passing in association compared to my player, online and quick games?

i have been playing association. my team chemistry is 49% right now with the kings. in my experience with 2k basketball, chemistry has always been a huge factor. it is especially true when running plays. if you chemistry is low, they are out of position and don't run the plays right offensively and defensively.

so at least for those in association games, could some of the passing woes be remedied by improving chemistry?

could a pass that was picked at the beginning of the season not be picked later in the season?

could a pass that was picked when passing with a player who doesn't play a lot, not be picked when passing with a starter?

personally, my turnovers are in the 12 to 20 range most games. sometimes i thread a pass and sometimes it is picked. most of the time it is my fault.

[BroMontana82]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

When i said large demographic i was including everyone i personally know who has and loves the game and everyone on these boards who i've seen share the same sentiment.

Of course, any game released this generation always has minor bugs that will end up being patched. I just dont want the two issues i discussed patched.

agreed with passing...i have no problem with it and most problems are people just going run and gun. sliders can adjust things anyways.

the trades definitely have to be looked at but not the numbers...i'm fine with fewer rather than too many but something is def. up with the POT rating.

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

Passing is too easy, okay buddy...and I bet later today you're gonna go fishing without a pole as a ginger midget takes pot shots at your abdomen while you sing the abc's backwords and inscribe Shakespeare's macbeth into the sand with your left foot...psh

Me good at dis game...mak me feel good to be good. Passing too easy..
me good.


Yeah the passing is manageable and learnable but not very intuitive and definitely not "Sim".

Both these problems are an overreaction to an overreaction.

Play a good cherry picker and you will see what he is talking about. If you know how to play keeping the turnovers at a realistic level isnt hard. Watching Nene throw a 40 yard post to JR Smith is hard to watch.

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

the problem with the passing is, yes, if you use lead passing, pass very carefully, intelligently, sure, you can siginficantly cut down the amount of turnovers and stolen passes. I know it works for me. but when you do this, you will only be able to play a slow-pace offense. you ca't play an up tempo, fast-break style offense because this game discourages any sort of passing in traffic and you will get your passes stolen. if any of you use a high octane, fast break based offense like the suns or warriors and you can run and gun with little turnover i would love to hear your tips.

You can run and gun you just have to be conservative and lead away from traffic and shoot jump shots. As long as you aren't inbounding the deep pass to very accurate. Too accurate if anything. Still there are times when you need to throw short passes to fastbreak. You also need to learn when to lob and who to lob to and with. It does hurt that big men are so slow in the game but you can overcome that to a degree by going small with a team like the Suns that can play Hill and Turkaglu at PF. It does suck for a team like the Warriors because Lee should be running with the guards.

You got to know when to pull up too. Besides the deep bombs fastbreaks take some skill in this game. Long way from 2k6.

[tutking]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

Read through about half the thread, great post by the OP, don`t have that much more to add just want to add one more voice to the ``Give the original some time`` group because there are way too much whiners out there who simply need to as the Czar says play basketball not video games

[Pitfighter87]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

I'm not under the impression that most people in this forum run plays (purposely). I think a lot of the problems that I see when people play against me and they throw the ball all over the place *i play HOF* is that they just don't understand floor spacing (and dont call plays). I end up playing zone (not 2-3) when I want to take advantage of this.

There are decisive risk and reward elements based on how you play in this game and if you dont PRACTICE, you'll be taken advantage of by people who do. about 75% of my lead passes and TC Passing brings the recipient CLOSER to the passer and land me in triple threat when I catch it. THATS CRUCIAL, you make yourself a threat and make people play you honestly, which keeps some defenders out of the lanes you want to pass to/thru.

Some of you don't think that far, some didn't even know triple threat was even in the game others probably think triple threat is an unlockable player in blacktop. Either case, if you find it too difficult to pass, play rookie.

Well said my man

[erickonasis]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

quick plays , pick and roll, isoloation...there are so many ways to beat the CPU on HOF w/o exploits...It is true...Once you learn EVERYTHING at your teams disposal you can successfully beat the CPU consistantly on HOF...I know i'm finally there now

[The Fight]

Re: The Game Is Not Broken, You Are.

I don't believe it. Post the box score and the team stats?

We all differ as to what we believe is an exploit. Exploit has a negative connotation because of people online who do the same cheesy stuff. But tricking the computer is 'exploiting' it. Off-ball Hawking steals is exploiting the cpu, doing the same play over and over again is exploiting the cpu. One can even say that if you know what play the computer is going to run that it's exploiting the cpu because they run the play as if you don't know it.

Point is, that's not skill so much as experience.


Unless you are totally beasting on offensive rebounds (more of a team thing than a skill thing) or making like 60% of your shots, it's hard to imagine that you are beating the computer on HoF/Sim without taking advantage of it. If you play the game fairly (which probably isn't even possible because you can't erase the knowledge of what the computer is going to do or what works and what doesn't), the computer will likely beat you or will give you a close game.

HoF and most highest difficulties in games are an overcompensation in difficulty. They know the AI will never be smarter than a human so they make it so that they make more shots, get more blocks... etc. But if you circumvent this by say... stealing the ball before they can take a shot or doing a move/play that they do not know how to react to... then you are exploiting the computer.

Edit: Also not sure what effect 70GS has on the game... if it makes it harder or easier, or neither.

-Smak

Fair points and my bad for not reading this last night I would have played offline as opposed to online for the screen shots and box scores (I'm in love with the Knicks and the Hawks right now, any particular team you want me to play against? *NO CLASSICS!*).

Let me address somethings:

1) We most certainly do differ when it comes down to defining an exploit. This varies by personal experience and for some reason, what system you are playing on (More on that a lil later). Exploit in the vain that I was speaking about meant something like the crossover in the same spot exploit/cheese tactic not exploiting a defensive switch that you believe is in your favor *like Josh Smith on Jameer Nelson in the low block*. "Tricking the computer" and coming up with a defensive scheme are two different things. You can try to trick the computer by staying in the passing lane but eventually, you will pay for your over aggressiveness (play the spurs and try to jump the passing lane, then have fun wiping the richard jefferson musk off of your forehead). If you pick your spots and don't try to lock on to every person with the ball, the opportunity to defend the shot attempt or attempt a steal will be there for you. Defense ends with the REBOUND, you don't have to steal or block everything, just contest it and gather the board.

2) Running the same play over and over again leads to CPU adjustment (and being real with yourself, it should lead to Human adjustment as well). I've had the computer cheat over the top AND help backdoor when I ran pick and roll type plays. You will get your A## dusted if you run the same play over and over again in superstar, you will get run out of the gym in HOF.

3) You need experience to develop skill. The two aren't interchangable. Case in point, the way I learn anything in basketball is repetition. Real life or virtual world. When I'm getting my a## handed to me by the computer, I watch the replay to see what I'm doing wrong/ the CPU is doing right. In real life, about 7 years ago when I balled seriously (I'm 25), I would watch the tapes to see what was wrong with parts of my game. That's my training method. I identify sets by looking at them. When I play a game, I CHANGE MY PLAYS AT THE HALF OR THIRD QUARTER. (BIG THING I SHOULD MENTION: CAMERA ANGLE = 2K, ONLY. I HAVE NO IDEA HOW PEOPLE PLAY THIS GAME SERIOUSLY ON BROADCAST ANGLES!) I don't know all the teams sets, but I do know how to read tendencies. If there is some form of misdirection, then you should read the passing lanes in the areas where people like the ball (easiest one in the game, Steph Curry).


The computer isn't god-like in HOF. They harp on your bad habits. HOF in general is an exercise in endurance and patience. The stronger your command and application of basic concepts in 2K, the better you will fair. Period. All levels below HOF should be places where you hone what concepts you understand and apply them till it sticks. I SHOULD PLAY SUPERSTAR WHILE LEARNING NEW PLAYS/PLAYS THAT AREN'T FROM MY PLAYBOOK for example but I wont, I'm hard headed. That's why I can't figure out how to run the 14 hi iso effectively for Amar'e or Josh Smith (the spacing is way too effin tight). Difference is, I work at it. I'm a basketball fiend/nerd.

-Fight