Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

[Eddie1967]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Hello all i'm new to these forums and just want to say i'm happy you posted this, because i play with the regular settings and believe it is more about fundamentals and the team instead of just using your superstar like in past games back in the day. But I am having a problem with 2k. My problem is in the shooting aspect of 2k even if you have a good release it still misses and that pee's me off sometime. Because I believe stephen curry has one of the best jumpers in the league but when i release it sometimes it still misses short or long and he be wide open. So do u think u can help me with that? Also again great post it was very informative and helpful...... thanks.....

Use the real shooting percentages and your problems will be solved.

[BegBy]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Sliders in theory rock. Some in 2k seem arbitrary, for me at least.

Did you recite that soliloquey in your sig in the company of other people (aside from your drama class), and if you did what was their reaction?

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

First off I am reading your entire post. I only quoted that portion because a.) that was the only thing I took issue with, and b.) the post was too long to quote in its entirety.

The only issue I have is this: Stop saying or implying that sliders=making the game easier. Do many players use them for that? Sure. Maybe even the majority. But that is not their function.

Never did I say that no one uses sliders to make the game easier. I am not being nitpicky. I just do not like people making generalizations and assumptions. Sliders =/= making the game easier.
Read what I quoted. You took what he said and twisted it to mean something else. Apart from that, the rest of what he said was garbage, but on that point he was right.

There is nothing wrong with using sliders.

(I'll get to that last sentence at the end)

Since you fail to acknowledge this in the long run:

If there is a gameplay slider that says 3PT success and you lower it for the CPU, the end result is that the game is easier. If you lower it for the human the game is harder. That would be a plain faced example of changing a solitary slider to make the game easier or harder. BOTH SITUATIONS ARE POSSIBLE. DO NOT TELL ME THAT CHANGING THE SLIDERS <> (boolean) MAKING THE GAME EASIER WHEN YOU CLEARLY CAN DO SO! THAT'S NOT AN ASSUMPTION! I said that there are people who change the sliders to make the game easier, not that everyone who modifies sliders does so to make the game easier. Basic difference being that one is available function and the other is a problem resolution. There have been people who modified the sliders to get a specific ("more realistic") result. I've acknowledged that. I'VE EVEN GONE AS FAR AS TO TELL PEOPLE TO POST THEIR SLIDERS SO THAT I COULD PLAY WITH THEM AND SHOW MY BOX SCORES FROM THAT GAME.

For the love of God...You're telling me that you don't like people making assumptions and generalizations? Great! I specified who I spoke about and I spoke specifically about why and how they did it. That level of specificity eliminates generality and assumes nothing.


Yes, in my mind, there is something wrong using sliders. It's all in utilization, though.

If you used the sliders to prevent an occurrence from happening because the way you played made it more prevalent, then yes, I think that's wrong. Whether that's bumping on the perimeter or passing across the court, doesn't matter. In essence, the game starts going back to how it was in 2K10. If hands are turned down significantly for both CPU and Human, if I jump a passing lane correctly, there's a chance that I wont get the steal. If you changed the sliders to gain "more realistic" stats, then at the end of the game, this wouldn't matter, but to me, that's wrong and that's what generally (yes an actual generalization here) happens when I play with certain types of sliders. What makes it worse is that the computer wont even play the lanes on those sliders designed to mitigate steals. The D stats will look a little more like real life but the game wont play better.

I think the best question I ask people when they tell me about the bumping "problem" is what did they do before they changed the sliders when bumped? Da_Czar said before the game came out that you could spin out of contact in the Demo, how many people actually learned how to do it? Yet again, a fundamental ball handling operation wasn't employed. They changed the slider, the bumping happens infrequently, they never have a need to learn what to do aside from passing out of it. End result: Bad habit (which would be something wrong).

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Sliders in theory rock. Some in 2k seem arbitrary, for me at least.

Did you recite that soliloquey in your sig in the company of other people (aside from your drama class), and if you did what was their reaction?

During my sophomore season in high school, our basketball team was terrible. We played hard but we just didn't have the talent or the height to be competitive. It became the mantra of our squad to "expect a fight" (aka my old xbox live s/n) every time we went out there. We all had different reasons to want to fight. That was mine. We were all going to give you hell for 32 minutes. I've told people this a number of times when people ask me about my nickname (yes, it's actually fight). My girl bought me a hoodie with "the fight" on it. The custom license plate will either say something with fight or SYPAD in it. Fight will be tattooed around my minor bullet wound.

Try harder to be condescending next time...

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I'm just gonna add that while you raise some good points your not talking about anything that's not common knowledge. Sliders make the game easier or harder and change the dynamic of the gameplay.

What's getting people so pissed off is your very first statement that suggests people should learn the fundamentals of basketball rather than adjust sliders. Implying that people don't know the game of basketball and to me that's a loaded statement on this site. It's gonna keep pissing people of because it looks like your attacking anyone who uses sliders.

I think your helping people who don't understand the X's and O's of the game is great though.

Understood and I appreciate the comment. I'll always have to defend my point of view and that's fine. On the other side, as long as people ask for help, I'll try my best to get them what they need.

My thoughts will still go back to those people who won't use fundamentals
(well enough) to get passed what their opponents (that's CPU and Human) are doing. This would also be a good opportunity to repeat that I don't think that the game is perfect.

[teddyballgame78]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Understood and I appreciate the comment. I'll always have to defend my point of view and that's fine. On the other side, as long as people ask for help, I'll try my best to get them what they need.

My thoughts will still go back to those people who won't use fundamentals
(well enough) to get passed what their opponents (that's CPU and Human) are doing. This would also be a good opportunity to repeat that I don't think that the game is perfect.

I will admit this I have run plays in past 2k games but since reading your thread I've been using a lot more! I love seeing Ray Allen coming off a curl for a wide open jumper!

Your right although this is by far the best basketball game I've ever played going back to my double dribble days. It's not perfect but it's pretty damn close for me. A little tweak here or there and I am in gaming bliss! That's all that most use sliders for. To have a fun competive game according to there styles of play. There interpretation of the sport. I 'm glad I have options on how I want to play this amazing game!

Here's the sliders I use they play pretty awesome for a shortened (9min qt) I play. The cpu gives me a decent challenge without me having to drop all my free time to learn every single in and out of the game. I'm to busy with Gears, Halo, and soon COD.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...h-bumping.html

awesome sliders!

[BegBy]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

During my sophomore season in high school, our basketball team was terrible. We played hard but we just didn't have the talent or the height to be competitive. It became the mantra of our squad to "expect a fight" (aka my old xbox live s/n) every time we went out there. We all had different reasons to want to fight. That was mine. We were all going to give you hell for 32 minutes. I've told people this a number of times when people ask me about my nickname (yes, it's actually fight). My girl bought me a hoodie with "the fight" on it. The custom license plate will either say something with fight or SYPAD in it. Fight will be tattooed around my minor bullet wound.

Try harder to be condescending next time...

I think you're confusing (common theme) condescending with mockery or ridicule.

Cool story bro.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

(I'll get to that last sentence at the end)

Since you fail to acknowledge this in the long run:

If there is a gameplay slider that says 3PT success and you lower it for the CPU, the end result is that the game is easier. If you lower it for the human the game is harder. That would be a plain faced example of changing a solitary slider to make the game easier or harder. BOTH SITUATIONS ARE POSSIBLE. DO NOT TELL ME THAT CHANGING THE SLIDERS <> (boolean) MAKING THE GAME EASIER WHEN YOU CLEARLY CAN DO SO! THAT'S NOT AN ASSUMPTION! I said that there are people who change the sliders to make the game easier, not that everyone who modifies sliders does so to make the game easier. Basic difference being that one is available function and the other is a problem resolution. There have been people who modified the sliders to get a specific ("more realistic") result. I've acknowledged that. I'VE EVEN GONE AS FAR AS TO TELL PEOPLE TO POST THEIR SLIDERS SO THAT I COULD PLAY WITH THEM AND SHOW MY BOX SCORES FROM THAT GAME.

For the love of God...You're telling me that you don't like people making assumptions and generalizations? Great! I specified who I spoke about and I spoke specifically about why and how they did it. That level of specificity eliminates generality and assumes nothing.


Yes, in my mind, there is something wrong using sliders. It's all in utilization, though.

If you used the sliders to prevent an occurrence from happening because the way you played made it more prevalent, then yes, I think that's wrong. Whether that's bumping on the perimeter or passing across the court, doesn't matter. In essence, the game starts going back to how it was in 2K10. If hands are turned down significantly for both CPU and Human, if I jump a passing lane correctly, there's a chance that I wont get the steal. If you changed the sliders to gain "more realistic" stats, then at the end of the game, this wouldn't matter, but to me, that's wrong and that's what generally (yes an actual generalization here) happens when I play with certain types of sliders. What makes it worse is that the computer wont even play the lanes on those sliders designed to mitigate steals. The D stats will look a little more like real life but the game wont play better.

I think the best question I ask people when they tell me about the bumping "problem" is what did they do before they changed the sliders when bumped? Da_Czar said before the game came out that you could spin out of contact in the Demo, how many people actually learned how to do it? Yet again, a fundamental ball handling operation wasn't employed. They changed the slider, the bumping happens infrequently, they never have a need to learn what to do aside from passing out of it. End result: Bad habit (which would be something wrong).

Yes, you can use sliders to make the game easier. I am not disputing that. What I am disputing is your stance that sliders make the game easier. If you cannot understand basic logic than that is on you. They can make the game easier, they can make the game harder, or they can make the game more realistic. Point is that they can do multiple things so saying sliders = making the game easier is inaccurate.

The assumption you made was that people altered sliders to make the game easier but use the term more realistic to hide their true goal. You also assumed that those who adjust sliders do so because they do not understand basketball fundamentals. You assumed that your basketball knowledge is greater than theirs. You assumed that I was not reading your entire posts. You have made assumptions.
Your points were
1. Bumping on the perimeter. I agree with you. The way it is implemented is not perfect, but there is contact in real life so the bumping is fine. In real basketball when I beat a man off the dribble he typically does not slide 5feet in the wrong direction. Generally I run right off his hip. 2k did a poor job of recreating this, but the bumping is part of a larger problem. I don't try to stop the bumping because of that.

2. Passing across the court is foolish and people who complain about that need to learn how to play basketball properly.(my own little assumption) In my slider adjustments I have decreased the effectiveness of passing to duplicate what happens when big men try to be like Rondo. With default sliders I could throw a perfect alley oop with my center from behind the 3 pt line. Not cool.

3. Hands. Yeah, I lowered hands. Dropped it by a good bit for user, only marginally for the AI. 2 results I was looking for I achieved. One is more deflections, less steals. You would disagree with this, and that is your right. But in the end it is nothing more than our opinions. Secondly, (and more importantly) now my center cannot catch a pass in traffic every time.
Another issue is vertical. Not really because of superman rebounds. The bigger problem is blocked jumpshots. Happens way to often for me. AI defenders don't get them as much as me for a number of reasons. Chiefly among those is probably Javale McGee, Wall, and Thornton, but still (plus the AI does not really go for the block on the perimeter). I should not be getting 15 blocks a game with half of those coming off perimeter J's.

You earlier told a poster to start at rookie (or was it pro?) to work his way up. Well even for those who use sliders to make the game easier that is all they are doing. Instead of making a few large jumps, why not make a few incremental jumps?
Besides all of this though, I don't know how you are still saying you are against the use of sliders when you yourself use them. Makes very little sense.

Finally, to what prompted you to make this thread in the first place -- the excessive amount of complaining on these boards. That I agree with. The only thing I took issue with (go back and read my initial post) was mostly this little comment: "Ultimately all my B*$#&*& leads back to the same thing, learn how to really play the game and stop customizing it to your bad habits." Have I mentioned I don't like assumptions?

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I will admit this I have run plays in past 2k games but since reading your thread I've been using a lot more! I love seeing Ray Allen coming off a curl for a wide open jumper!

Your right although this is by far the best basketball game I've ever played going back to my double dribble days. It's not perfect but it's pretty damn close for me. A little tweak here or there and I am in gaming bliss! That's all that most use sliders for. To have a fun competive game according to there styles of play. There interpretation of the sport. I 'm glad I have options on how I want to play this amazing game!

Here's the sliders I use they play pretty awesome for a shortened (9min qt) I play. The cpu gives me a decent challenge without me having to drop all my free time to learn every single in and out of the game. I'm to busy with Gears, Halo, and soon COD.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...h-bumping.html

awesome sliders!

Those sliders don't have my vote at all, lol.
All those will do is give Fight here more to be mad about. Bad sliders.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

During my sophomore season in high school, our basketball team was terrible. We played hard but we just didn't have the talent or the height to be competitive. It became the mantra of our squad to "expect a fight" (aka my old xbox live s/n) every time we went out there. We all had different reasons to want to fight. That was mine. We were all going to give you hell for 32 minutes. I've told people this a number of times when people ask me about my nickname (yes, it's actually fight). My girl bought me a hoodie with "the fight" on it. The custom license plate will either say something with fight or SYPAD in it. Fight will be tattooed around my minor bullet wound.

Try harder to be condescending next time...

Wow, lol

The hoodie is a bit much, no?

[teddyballgame78]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Those sliders don't have my vote at all, lol.
All those will do is give Fight here more to be mad about. Bad sliders.

No there is no argument here different sliders for different people.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v665sVxFQzQ

In my mind this video highlights some of the reasons sliders are needed. Dude was on HOF sim. Notice that dude never called a play. He just ran around with Deron seemingly randomly. Yet he still was in a position to beat the cpu.

The video also highlights the reasons I lower hands and passing accuracy. Momentum was carrying him the other way yet many times he was able to twist his body the other way and placed a pass perfectly to a big who handled the pass perfectly. Thats a problem.

And Mr. Fight may disagree with me, because (by looking at his VIP) I assume he plays the passing lanes the same way, but I believe that playing the passing lanes in that manner (recognizing plays, fast switching, and "jumping" the pass) is a borderline exploit. Reason being you are taking advantage of the AI in a unrealistic manner.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I will admit this I have run plays in past 2k games but since reading your thread I've been using a lot more! I love seeing Ray Allen coming off a curl for a wide open jumper!

Your right although this is by far the best basketball game I've ever played going back to my double dribble days. It's not perfect but it's pretty damn close for me. A little tweak here or there and I am in gaming bliss! That's all that most use sliders for. To have a fun competive game according to there styles of play. There interpretation of the sport. I 'm glad I have options on how I want to play this amazing game!

Here's the sliders I use they play pretty awesome for a shortened (9min qt) I play. The cpu gives me a decent challenge without me having to drop all my free time to learn every single in and out of the game. I'm to busy with Gears, Halo, and soon COD.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...h-bumping.html

awesome sliders!

Aww double dribble! I liked a lot of games back in the day, Arch Rivals, NBA Jam T.E. for the saturn, NBA Action '94 for the genesis and of course Konami Run-n-gun *literally spent 40 dollars at a clip playing that in arcades*

I have 3 PM Requests that I will get to before this but I will post the screenshots and analysis some time tonight, hopefully some time around the 10 PM Eastern. I vaguely remember this thread but I haven't looked at it recently. I'll take a look when I get home. What difficulty and how many minutes would you like me to play?

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I think you're confusing (common theme) condescending with mockery or ridicule.

Cool story bro.

Just the thread climate at the time. I have to be defensive first on those kinds of posts. Sorry.

[Pared]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Those that disagree strongly need to find a better way to express themselves.

To the OP, perhaps in your future threads you should show a little more... "class" when dealing with others in the community. Also, "rants" typically don't offer any good here on Operation Sports.

We're not going to continue the silly little back and forth here. Either everyone find a way to address each other respectfully or we'll deal with each comment accordingly.

Thanks.