Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

[teddyballgame78]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

My latest box score for DEFAULT All-Star/Sim:

Blazers (me) - Bucks (CPU)

1st quarter: 29 - 18
2nd quarter: 13 - 12
3rd quarter: 21 - 5
4th quarter: 20 - 11
Final: 83 - 46

Stats:

Points: 83 - 46
Field Goals: 34/78 - 20/92
FG%: 43% - 21%
3 Pointers: 5/19 - 1/22
3PT%: 26% - 4%
Free Throws: 10/15 - 5/8
Assists: 24 - 10
Turnovers: 12 - 9
Team Fouls: 8 - 10
Total Rebounds: 47 - 44
Off. Rebounds: 8 - 11
Steals: 8 - 8
Blocks: 19 - 1
PiP: 36 - 22
Bench Points: 28 - 11
Second Chance Points: 4 - 4
Fast Break Points: 8 - 4


Yeah. No. Back to sliders for me, because the CPU plays an incredibly stupid game of basketball on default All-Star/Sim. 19 BLOCKS FOR ME. Nineteen loving blocks. The CPU scored 5 points in the 3rd quarter, on 8% shooting. =/

LOL Damn dude abuse the AI much. 19 blocks wow!

[CX1329]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

The CPU players were always busy taking predictable jumpers right in front of guys like Oden and Aldridge. In the 3rd quarter, they went 9 minutes without scoring a single point.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I will admit this I have run plays in past 2k games but since reading your thread I've been using a lot more! I love seeing Ray Allen coming off a curl for a wide open jumper!

Your right although this is by far the best basketball game I've ever played going back to my double dribble days. It's not perfect but it's pretty damn close for me. A little tweak here or there and I am in gaming bliss! That's all that most use sliders for. To have a fun competive game according to there styles of play. There interpretation of the sport. I 'm glad I have options on how I want to play this amazing game!

Here's the sliders I use they play pretty awesome for a shortened (9min qt) I play. The cpu gives me a decent challenge without me having to drop all my free time to learn every single in and out of the game. I'm to busy with Gears, Halo, and soon COD.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...h-bumping.html

awesome sliders!

Ok, ive pacified my girl and answered all my PM's. lets get back into this thread.

Now, forgive me for not posting the screen shot. phone's dead.

I played 10 minutes on the Allstar sliders. There is no on the ball D at all and the off ball is even worse. Way too many clear looks out of curls and double picks. If you cheated on the pick it wouldn't matter, if the shot went up, it would basically be uncontested. I played against the Knicks and we both shot over 50% (I shot 56, the CPU shot 53%). I was 8-17 from three and 49-86 overall.

Gallo was annoying as all hell to defend because the skip pass was there and he was in catch and shoot mode (he had the game high at 34). Stat had 19 and 8 (that's a real stat line) and Felton had 12 points and 8 assists. On fade and up plays, the faster player wins. It's a race and if you use total control passing, you will get a CLEAR look about 70% of the time out of a Dub, Fade or Up play. It's miserable. I know what ggsimonds was talking about now. I will say that my turnovers were down from my usual 16 to 9 and the Knicks committed 14 but a lot of those were charges. Speaking of which, there's no point in reaching for anything because it's a foul. Even directly under the basket. That was highly aggravating because Turiaf and Mosgov got Willams and Jordan Crawford in foul trouble early. I had to just deal with that one, it ended up working in favor. I played Bibby and Jamal Crawford (team high 29) and considering that the weapon of choice was the midrange jumper I had no problem finding my shots in free flow.

I'll give it to you, the stats for the CPU looked real but the gameplay wasn't. Stat played within his game, and so did Felton but that was just about it. Gallo was a bit of a volume shooter and there was little that could be done about it (I purposely didn't change the coaching setting to play him tighter off the ball).

Big frustration, going for steals that you should get and not getting it which then leads to an assist. Felt like that happened a lot in the third.

Results: I won by three, 108-105.

First Q: 25-28 CPU; 2nd: 34-14 Me; 3rd: 18-29 CPU, 4th: 31-34 CPU

Josh Smith had Game high rebounds at 11 (13 points), Jordan Crawford had game high assists at 14 (19 points).

Knicks assists: 24
My assists: 39

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Wow, lol

The hoodie is a bit much, no?

I love my hoodie. It has SYPAD on the back, too!

Best birthday present this year. In about 2 months, I'll order my custom Air Raid from Nike with SYPAD and Fight on the them somewhere.

[threes_co]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

@The Fight

How are you managing to draw charges?

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v665sVxFQzQ

In my mind this video highlights some of the reasons sliders are needed. Dude was on HOF sim. Notice that dude never called a play. He just ran around with Deron seemingly randomly. Yet he still was in a position to beat the cpu.

The video also highlights the reasons I lower hands and passing accuracy. Momentum was carrying him the other way yet many times he was able to twist his body the other way and placed a pass perfectly to a big who handled the pass perfectly. Thats a problem.

And Mr. Fight may disagree with me, because (by looking at his VIP) I assume he plays the passing lanes the same way, but I believe that playing the passing lanes in that manner (recognizing plays, fast switching, and "jumping" the pass) is a borderline exploit. Reason being you are taking advantage of the AI in a unrealistic manner.

This guy is playing like a BUM. Seriously. He's try to hawk passing lanes but he's doing so terribly. He doesn't even switch unless he feels like someone is going to shoot. Moreover, he on offense, is just trying to get PIP. This is basically all I play against online in HOF. No Jumpshots, no rhyme or reason to the O. Just everything to the baja. Really, it's icon and icon lead passing to an open spot on the court near the paint or toward the basket. It's annoying to watch but easy to break. It's more of reason why I play 1-3-1, especially when I realize that people just want to score inside.

By the way, he doesn't know how to guard the post and come crunch time, that will burn him in HOF. You can't do the same thing against the computer all game and expect the AI not to do anything at the half and the beginning of the fourth.

I will reiterate this, you don't need to change the sliders for what he did. The game will take care of him on HOF. He never had to withstand a run (he never made coaching adjustments or subs or points of emphasis changes) and overplayed lanes with Willams. The game might have been close for a while but I can guarantee you that the second half would have played differently.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I have been reading this thread the past few days and it is very interesting. I personally don't like sliders. I always said I will only use it as a last resort. The OP, to me, is mostly on point with everything he said. Most of the people in here who takes a defensive stance against him are the ones that are guilty of making the game easier or in denial, using the often thrown around "better stats" as a excuse because it cannot be proven wrong completely.

What's good Crossover? Check your notifications.

There are going to be those who have a valid gripe with changing their sliders and coupled with that will be the defensive stance that they would understandably take if they are someone who uses sliders for reasons other than what I mentioned. Personally, I believe that changing the way you play still trumps whatever you can tweak in a slider, mainly because some of the fun of 2K is based in finding ways to win via coaching. You may never win the same way twice or you only win when you follow a specific game plan. I feel like altering the sliders limits how effective coaching can be in some cases (especially when the sliders are aimed at taking something out specifically). Just my interpretation, of the situation (Andre 3000 voice).

[teddyballgame78]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Yeah those sliders were a bad example. There good for having okay numbers but not going at the cpu hard. Most of the time this is my game to unwind but with that said I'm gonna look into tougher sliders I shot 54% in my game and I was getting open on a lot of jump shots. Also got to the hoop to easy.

It's a work in progress.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

To the OP:

I just spent the past two hours reading every post in this thread. It's now 4:30 am MST. I have to agree with what seems the majority opinion here, that you offer excellent advice regarding game strategy but have been very close minded to the notion that sliders DO help gameplay.

I'm currently going to school to become a programmer and was interested when you said you used to program in C++. It would seem to me that using the sliders offered by 2K11 (The best I've ever seen on a basketball game) is as close to programming the game as we’re going to get. I'm sure much of what 2K’s software engineer's do to perfect the game is simply adjust values and algorithms to get desired results (ala more advanced sliders). I am of the mind that sliders should be adjusted cautiously and with great care. I do think that people often inadvertently blemish the game by over adjusting sliders. I also agree strongly with a previous poster that said adjusting sliders can become addicting and eventually lead to a complete disconnect from the game. There was another poster that said the solution most likely rest at some point in the middle.

Really the hardest time I’m having with your overall tone (I’ve read every post) is why you feel so personally scorned because someone you don’t know may or may not be cheating themselves out of an excellent gaming experience. You’ve mentioned several times that it bothers you to see so many take short cuts rather than to learn the game. Why…? I just can’t understand why you have taken this crusade to stop short-cutting so personally. I appreciate your passion and knowledge of the game, and for the most part, your well mannered approach to sharing your message. At the very least, I think we can agree to disagree.

First thing, you're a better man than I for sticking with programing. I started with Basic, moved up to assembly then C++ all before I was 18 but it's just boring. I'm now in Project Management, Operations and IT. Not that it's more fun than programming, realistically it isn't. I got into programing because I love problem solving. Doing project management allows me to problem solve and plan for elements that are actually happening to real live people and it's that same concept that affords me the patience to listen to people's issues on here and try to help as best as I can.

Now back on task. Changing the sliders is a lot like programing or at least a template for doing so but I ask you this, what would you do if you couldn't change the gameplay sliders? My answer/assumption, you would change the way you play. Or you wouldn't play the game. I actually know people who returned the game because of how difficult certain things in the game are (in my inner circle, we all play 65 to 70 GS, HOF, 100 Free throw. This was too much for 3 people this year). My mentality is that the game is trying to get you to play a certain way. I practice and try to help other people out basically everyday because the more I understand about the game, the better my overall game will be (which would then lead to increasing my overall game experience). Great example of this would be what happened today. I had 2 PM's asking me for advice about the Pacers. Being a knick fan, I hate most things that have any correlation to Reggie Miller, but I did it anyway. In going through their playbook and playing people online, I found a really useful situation for a new dribbling combo (For all those interested, its a 1 or 2 guard gauge: pass catch, protect ball, spin to off-hand dribble, hesitate dribble & read, behind the back, hesitate, signature gather & read while moving from top of the key to the wing). Basically, I can break the play call and possibly call another while being able to decently predict what the D is going to do for a particular action. Again, this is typical point guard gauging, but I have a better grasp of it after coming across this. If I were to change a slider to decrease on the ball defense, I wouldn't be able to properly assess the D by doing this (in free flow, I like to change speeds. This is when I'm looking to establish a slower pace).

In terms of my tone and my personal crusade (excellent way to put it), there are some things I'm harsh about and some that I'm understanding about. Some people want to just play the game and whatever they get from it, they are content with. I wish I could be like that sometimes. When it comes to people who play games religiously and complain about a game, especially ones that you can play online with other people, I get annoyed because their grievances could probably be resolved if there was a better tutorial of how to play and advanced features. In my 5 years on XBL, it's been my experience that people get discouraged and angered quickly when they lose. Doubly so when the person that they lose to isn't doing something special/just isn't good. Rather than get cursed out everytime I come across this/cause this, I help people get their games together and become more competitive. More competition improves the quality of the gaming community and better yet, reduces the number of people complaining about something simple. Which in will spawn better questions (and better answers) making the community even stronger still. If you short-cut all of that, you short circuit the bigger picture and people go back to complaining but this time they want more quick fixes.

Happy to agree to disagree with you any time sir, lol.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

The only real arguments a person can make against adjusting sliders is that the game either was absolutley perfect out of the box (or with each gameplay update) or that the issues it does have can't be fixed with sliders. Either way you've got you're work ahead you as far as proving those points goes.

I have to pose the same question to you here that I did earlier: What would you do if there wasn't any sliders to modify?

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Yeah those sliders were a bad example. There good for having okay numbers but not going at the cpu hard. Most of the time this is my game to unwind but with that said I'm gonna look into tougher sliders I shot 54% in my game and I was getting open on a lot of jump shots. Also got to the hoop to easy.

It's a work in progress.

On ball defense and defense in general was nerfed. Small tweaks are better than major adjustments. I do not have my game on, but I know most of the sliders in my game are only marginally adjusted, with a few exceptions.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

That is an argument for using sliders. Most who argue against the use of sliders are using a slider set themselves. The only difference is that the developers made the slider set in use. We can all agree that developers are not infallible.

Agreed. I say I'm playing on HOF/Sim all the time. I don't modify that preset though. I didn't start playing like that out of preference, I just thought it was the hardest mode when I got the game. Took me about a week to try the sliders after reading some posts and after about a week and a half, I went right back to simulation.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Agreed. I say I'm playing on HOF/Sim all the time. I don't modify that preset though. I didn't start playing like that out of preference, I just thought it was the hardest mode when I got the game. Took me about a week to try the sliders after reading some posts and after about a week and a half, I went right back to simulation.

I do have a disagreement when people alter sliders immediately or after playing 1 or 2 games. Start out on the sim setting, and when you have a good sample size look at your vip/association stats whatever and decide whether everything is acceptable. One guy was saying that his sliders work like a charm. But he is in 1st place using the Phoenix Suns. To me that makes a slider set a bad set. Suns should not be a 1st place team. So if a user is able to consistently beat better teams than their sliders give them a advantage over the AI.

My method for slider settings is play a few games with the same teams going against each other. E.g. I would play as the Wizards against the Wizards. Now common logic would suggest that it should be a very close game right? The only difference should be who better takes advantages of mismatches and strategy. So I would alter sliders to cancel out things such as stick skill. Example: My John Wall is getting to the rim easier than AI's John Wall. I should correct that.

I don't think anyone can claim to be having a perfect experience -- sliders or not. But using sliders does allow for one to fall in a trap of relying on sliders to much.

[2kfanatic]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I'm not sure if ts the roster update but I finally was able to beat the heat using the lakers. I was up by lilke 10 wit h2 mins to go and then the cpu burned me until they got a 1 pt lead. Kobe saved my *** though with a buzzer beater fall away shot. My best quick game ever haha. And they changed the plays and rotation in the roster update too.

[Pared]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Using authority figures does not prove that altering sliders will or will not make the game unbalanced. So tell me this. Why was it so hard to make 3 ptrs on sim setting? Or why did everyone post up, including Allen Iverson? Or how about everyone and their mom playing good on ball defense, including Shaq?

That is an argument for using sliders. Most who argue against the use of sliders are using a slider set themselves. The only difference is that the developers made the slider set in use. We can all agree that developers are not infallible.

Thank you, gg.

The examples used by crossover didn't even make sense. "Everyone post up, including Allen Iverson?" Hell, he's not even in the game.

Seriously though, there are some things that need changing on the sim setting, and I'm sure you'll see that reflected accordingly.