Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I do everything you've just stated, and I always play on 12 minute quarters. Runs are very present in my game, and I break them by slowing down the tempo of the game and creating good looks, like I said before. I go on runs by getting defensive stops and exploiting mismatches, or getting out on the break. As for the free flow offense, I find that I can't do much of it because the defense begins to react to what I'm doing, and keeps me from moving the ball around at will or getting open looks. Thus, I have to start calling plays again, so as to force the defense to give me something. This, against a team without good defensive awareness, is devastating.

I, too, like to call plays and then break them when I see a window of opportunity. It's also a great way to confuse the defense. Overall, my game plays just like the real NBA and is no less difficult than the default settings, because I have to do all the same things in order to win. My sliders simply modify the gameplay to better reflect what I see on TV.

You sound like you have a valid gripe, but let me get into this with a little more detail. When you're in free flow, the idea is that everyone is waiting for your input. This is where you use the off ball controls, Total control passing *thank you again 2k for this* and the left bumper, right stick combos. Literally create everything that you are looking for. The reason why I refer to it as "free flow" is because if you hit it right, you can have 3 separate lanes for passing, dive/curling *pick and roll initiated* and driving with real spacing. Do none of those things and your players get in your way, miss opportunities for putbacks and rebounds, transition horribly back on D and just look stagnant.

For what it's worth:
Slowing down the tempo isn't always the best way to stop a run. Actually, I prefer to try my hardest to press the tempo. Fast action = less time to counter mistakes. It's risky, it's more of a know thy team situation. I like teams that can "run out of a run." I wouldn't try this with the Spurs but I do with the Thunder.

If you still have an issue, let me know specifically what you're trying to do. We can try to tackle it from there...

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I think it would be better if you go back to lurking.

There is nothing wrong with deciding to not adjust sliders, just as there is nothing wrong with adjusting sliders to improve your experience. Stop acting as if you are better than everyone else.

Wait what?

"there's nothing wrong with deciding to not adjust sliders..."
- OK, I see that...

"...just as there's nothing wrong with adjusting sliders to improve your experience"
- now, how are you improving something that has nothing wrong?

Read the rest of my post(s).

Moreover, if you have a 360, play me. 2 games, your sliders and rules then mine. Why talk about it when you can be about it. It's not that I'm acting as if I'm better than everyone else *holier-than-thou sure, but not better than everyone else* I originally identified slider manipulation with a tool that people use to get by in 2K because the game was too hard *shout out to CX1329 for putting out his counter point in the way that he did.* I felt like it was a crutch even. Since I don't use that crutch, I mentioned how much I hate it. Then offered ways for people not to use that crutch anymore.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Wait what?

"there's nothing wrong with deciding to not adjust sliders..."
- OK, I see that...

"...just as there's nothing wrong with adjusting sliders to improve your experience"
- now, how are you improving something that has nothing wrong?

It is a matter of preference. Not making changes to sliders is not a better way to play the game than adjusting sliders. You can have a realistic experience with adjusted sliders. There is no correct choice.

Read the rest of my post(s).

Moreover, if you have a 360, play me. 2 games, your sliders and rules then mine. Why talk about it when you can be about it. It's not that I'm acting as if I'm better than everyone else *holier-than-thou sure, but not better than everyone else* I originally identified slider manipulation with a tool that people use to get by in 2K because the game was too hard *shout out to CX1329 for putting out his counter point in the way that he did.* I felt like it was a crutch even. Since I don't use that crutch, I mentioned how much I hate it. Then offered ways for people not to use that crutch anymore.

I have a PS3. And regardless I do not play online because of the amount of cheesers. I am strictly an association guy. You seem to be under the false impression that adjusting sliders = lowering the AI's effectiveness/ making the game easier. That is not correct. Many slider sets actually increase the challenge. Get off your high horse.

[2kfanatic]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

How the hell do you beat the heat at HoF? I can beat boston and some other elite teams but I can't get close to beating the heat (Laker user here and yeah I probably suck). They hit their contested shots almost all the time, they shoot at almost 75% FG every game. What the hell do I have to do to beat these guys lol.

[pokerplaya]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Curious...

Do you play association games? How are your turnovers, etc - relative to the real NBA.

Most of us want to play 12 minutes with some semblance of NBA realism. I can beat the game just fine on a default level.

Now, if you're telling me that you're getting realistic NBA stats over 12 minutes playing a strictly default setup... I'm doubtful. Actually, I think you said you moved your game speed up to 75... I don't see how without slidering the game you are getting realistic stats.

For most of us its not trying to "game the system" - it's to get the AI to provide us with a realistic performance of an NBA game. You know, not having a leading scorer with 45 a game because you play 12 minutes, that type of stuff.

If you're talking strictly for "play now" or online, you have a point. I'd never expect to play slidered online.. again - I'm just curious how you do in associations...

[AdamBa17]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

If you "develop" a game slider preference because you want a more realistic game, first look at the "unrealistic" gameplay and how YOU play it. My commentary stems from people taking the "easy" way out by adjusting the gameplay sliders as opposed to adjusting their gameplay. if you take offense to that, good. It was more than likely directed to you. With that said, NOTHING that I point out, I leave as an issue. I'm not like some people where they will just point out something and complain without offering something to "help."

great post, i mentioned this in my topic too "zen and sports gaming"

its funny to see how attached people have become to sliders. and their excuses.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Curious...

Do you play association games? How are your turnovers, etc - relative to the real NBA.

Most of us want to play 12 minutes with some semblance of NBA realism. I can beat the game just fine on a default level.

Now, if you're telling me that you're getting realistic NBA stats over 12 minutes playing a strictly default setup... I'm doubtful. Actually, I think you said you moved your game speed up to 75... I don't see how without slidering the game you are getting realistic stats.

For most of us its not trying to "game the system" - it's to get the AI to provide us with a realistic performance of an NBA game. You know, not having a leading scorer with 45 a game because you play 12 minutes, that type of stuff.

If you're talking strictly for "play now" or online, you have a point. I'd never expect to play slidered online.. again - I'm just curious how you do in associations...

Good observation. I should have clarified this in the original post.

I do play association (12-1, damn Grizzlies) and I'm averaging around the high 16's in turnovers.

Note: I play HOF/SIM/70 GS (you can really feel a difference at 75...)/100 Free Throw Difficulty (and my FT% is an abysmal 53% in both association and VIP)/shot stick timing

I must say that the association has taken a bit of a back seat recently. Online games (not ranked it's too hit or miss; either they suck or they try to play glitchball), completing the Jordan Challenges (now Jordan My player, which I HAVEN'T won 1 game for yet!!!!! grrr), My player (because my people want to have team up games) and just flat practicing have started to monopolize my time on 2K. I will say this, given the moral situation in 2K, you have to come up with more strategies when playing the same team adding to my favorite part of the game, the chess match.

The teams that I'm currently running with are the Hawks, T'Wolves, Thunder and the Knicks (if you don't see the connection, its 2 teams with winning records, 2 with losing records). Out of those 4, I'm probably the weakest with the Thunder. I don't try to use the star/primary scorer first. They will get their points eventually. The Hawks are a very beatable team if it's just Joe Johnson killing you. However, if Jordan (not Jamal) Crawford gets me 16+ (averaging 18.7 ppg in association, he's the starting pg, i'm anti Bibby *he's situational*) and Marvin Williams gets me 12+ THEN Johnson get's me 22+ (he's the leading scorer with 23 ppg), you're in trouble. Trade-off's: I don't get Bibby's excellent skip passes to corners (really damn useful because Williams likes to drift out there in free flow) and Josh Smith becomes even more of an intangibles guy/ Defensive specialist (someone HAS to get less touches).

Once again, I don't cheese the computer. Playing HOF keeps you honest to a point. As I mentioned to Illsmak in another forum on here, steals are an art and I'm not a finger painter. If you are frugal with your steal attempts, and wait for the right opportunity, you can capitalize in the offenses weaknesses. I don't play 2-3 (or 3-2 for that matter) and sit at the bottom with the center and just wait for the blocks to come. I will, however, play 1-3-1 to preserve stamina for a certain lineup and trap on the perimeter and use the 4 to seal up holes (and give up open looks on the weak-side if it's a poor 3PT shooting team. Risk-Reward system).

I have to go back to the common refrain here (and shed some insight too). Go back to playing the game without the slider altering and see where your strengths and weaknesses are vs. where you think the game isn't realistic. When I first played 2K, after every "bad" play, I instant replayed it to see what I should have done. I actually wrote some stuff down and practiced it. Everything from fast-switching to hockey assists to what-fundamental-basketball-move-work-best-where to where to trigger isomotion to TOTAL CONTROL PASSING *I'll love you every day for this 2K* to post moves for non-post players...and thats before play-calling. I mentioned before that HOF is an exercise in endurance. That's because you have to know where to do what. Every possession, every time down the court. You have to come up with schemes for teams (see tip number two, i'm literally telling you how to try to mitigate Amar'e and Gallo's effectiveness). You aren't just going to pick up the game, treat it like it's 2K9 or 10 and figure you're just going to be awesome. You aren't going to use fan logic to beat someone. Actually go and GAMEPLAN for people. That's how you come up with realistic stats. That's how you beat cheesers. That's how you win games (or at least stay competitive).

-Off my soapbox now

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

It is a matter of preference. Not making changes to sliders is not a better way to play the game than adjusting sliders. You can have a realistic experience with adjusted sliders. There is no correct choice.



I have a PS3. And regardless I do not play online because of the amount of cheesers. I am strictly an association guy. You seem to be under the false impression that adjusting sliders = lowering the AI's effectiveness/ making the game easier. That is not correct. Many slider sets actually increase the challenge. Get off your high horse.

I have little to no idea on how to deal with you because you spoke in a circle again, so let me ask you a philosophical question.

Which is a more effective tactic to use when you determine that a game, not this game but a game, is too difficult:

A. Change the Game's Behavior
B. Lower the Difficulty Setting
C. Play Against People Better Than You
D. Raise The Difficulty Level
E. Keep Playing on That Level.

Again, I'm not asking you if you feel that 2K is too difficult and as a preview to my next post, I'm not trying to lead this to an obvious conclusion. I really just want to know how you think.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

How the hell do you beat the heat at HoF? I can beat boston and some other elite teams but I can't get close to beating the heat (Laker user here and yeah I probably suck). They hit their contested shots almost all the time, they shoot at almost 75% FG every game. What the hell do I have to do to beat these guys lol.

Lol, I hate the Lakers, with a passion.

The key here is going to be defensive schemes and individual matchups. I haven't beaten the Heat playing one defensive set a game, yet. I'll play them tonight when I get home and I'll give you some plays and some D alignments to try. Off the top of my head, I would put Artest on Wade and Shannon Brown on LBJ. Reasoning? Wade's pull up jump shot is more dangerous than the King's spinning double clutching moves to the basket so it would be relatively wasted using Ron-Ron (QUEEEEEEEENNNNNSSSSSS!) on LBJ here. I'm also much more concerned about LeBron's Quickness than LBJ's anything else. Quickness leads to help defense which leads to teams getting lanes to the basket.

I'll get back to you on this one.

[jtdribbles25]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

You are a somewhat funny guy. It's always funny to see someone on there own personal high horse attempt to verify that with condescending words and such. Tell me this, why does it bother you that...... I DON"T LIKE THINGS! I bought the game and they give me the ability to alter elements of the gameplay for WHATEVER REASON I CHOOSE... key word: I

You play your game however you like. I, again that word, can play mine the way I like. You made a mention of something that I specifically have made sliders for, the bumping. you mention a couple of real games, however what you fail to mention is the fact that in the videogame there is no penalty for the bumps and riding of the offensive player. there are simply not enough variations of fouls called in the game that validate that type of play.

Beating a videogame is not hallmark to my personal legacy. I don't win a prize for beating the game or you. I play this game because Im a hoops junkie. It's simulation of the game I love is paramount to me. And as many have said sliders are personal preference. You even use one to change the speed. wow!

[tomzenns]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Honestly, I play on Sim/All-Star and I can literally get Lebron to the hoop 8/10 possessions with a cross over. Every time I run plays, Mike Miller clacks open shots. Miller is 0/23 in 5 games from 3 point range. All shots ran off of plays, with open looks. It makes it so I have to play arcade style and try to get to the hoop over and over, because I miss almost every open shot. That to me, eliminates all strategy. And in a 48 minute game, that gets old.

Seriously, the ONLY way I can win on Sim/All-Star is to drive to the hoop, pick and rolls, and isolation. If I try and run plays, get open shots, and try and knock them down....I'm down 10 in a blink of an eye.

The stats on Sim mode are good, but the feel is off to me.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I have little to no idea on how to deal with you because you spoke in a circle again, so let me ask you a philosophical question.

Which is a more effective tactic to use when you determine that a game, not this game but a game, is too difficult:

A. Change the Game's Behavior
B. Lower the Difficulty Setting
C. Play Against People Better Than You
D. Raise The Difficulty Level
E. Keep Playing on That Level.

Again, I'm not asking you if you feel that 2K is too difficult and as a preview to my next post, I'm not trying to lead this to an obvious conclusion. I really just want to know how you think.

Lower the difficulty.
And in no way was that a philosophical question.

I was not speaking in a circle. I am only saying that there is no correct way to enjoy the game.

Some of the things you say are valid. But the assertion that adjusting sliders is a way to overcome difficulty or overcome a user's flaws in playing the game is completely incorrect. It can do that, and very often does, but that does not mean that all who adjust sliders do so as a shortcut as you imply.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

You are a somewhat funny guy. It's always funny to see someone on there own personal high horse attempt to verify that with condescending words and such. Tell me this, why does it bother you that...... I DON"T LIKE THINGS! I bought the game and they give me the ability to alter elements of the gameplay for WHATEVER REASON I CHOOSE... key word: I

You play your game however you like. I, again that word, can play mine the way I like. You made a mention of something that I specifically have made sliders for, the bumping. you mention a couple of real games, however what you fail to mention is the fact that in the videogame there is no penalty for the bumps and riding of the offensive player. there are simply not enough variations of fouls called in the game that validate that type of play.

Beating a videogame is not hallmark to my personal legacy. I don't win a prize for beating the game or you. I play this game because Im a hoops junkie. It's simulation of the game I love is paramount to me. And as many have said sliders are personal preference. You even use one to change the speed. wow!

Ok a few things since, it's relatively clear that you classified this as TL;DR.

What bothers me will always be the mentality that "it can't be me." We aren't a even a month into the game's release and you have scores of people who refuse to even try to learn how to play the game. You have people who will tell you that passing is too difficult, that the on the ball defense isn't realistic, that outlet passing is broken and it goes on.

Any other way to try to tackle your points will lead to a debate on free speech basically (considering that you're complaining that I'm being condescending so you build your argument condescending me, bravo).

I will say that this is a valid gripe:

"...you mention a couple of real games, however what you fail to mention is the fact that in the videogame there is no penalty for the bumps and riding of the offensive player. there are simply not enough variations of fouls called in the game that validate that type of play."

I also never said the video game was perfect. The real game isn't either considering the Jazz, Spurs and Celtics ride people like horses when they are at home. What I said was I don't just produce issues without offering "help." For whatever it's worth, use the damn sizeup. If a guy is riding you, the adjustment (and advantage) isn't to press into him or try continuing down the same route, it's the space to behind and the sides of you. The bump and ride method is used as a (admittedly bad, but necessary) deterrent. Do nothing to counter it, receive nothing for your effort. Simple.

Technicality or not, GS isn't a GAMEPLAY SLIDER, it should be but it isn't (for that matter, Simulation is a preset Slider also).

At least you think I'm somewhat funny...

Oh yea, I have gotten prizes *not this year* for beating folks in this game (and there's a pretty big tourney on the PS3 side of things for this game).

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

These kinds of threads are getting to be hilarious in a ridiculous way.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Lower the difficulty.
And in no way was that a philosophical question.

I was not speaking in a circle. I am only saying that there is no correct way to enjoy the game.

Some of the things you say are valid. But the assertion that adjusting sliders is a way to overcome difficulty or overcome a user's flaws in playing the game is completely incorrect. It can do that, and very often does, but that does not mean that all who adjust sliders do so as a shortcut as you imply.

Yes it is philosophical my man. Gaming philosophy.

When I'm not good at a game, I look to play on harder difficulties or in the case of shooters, against people that are better than me. My ego forces me to not be anyone's liability and eventually, I get better. I can relate and even empathize with choice A. Hell, way back in the day I would do this playing San Andreas, lol.

I stopped lowering the difficulty when I realized that I wasn't getting better at the game. With that being said: I LOWER THE DIFFICULTY DOWN TO SUPERSTAR AND PLAY QUICK GAMES WHEN LEARNING NEW (GENERIC) PLAYS 70% OF THE TIME. Once I get the hang of it, I go back up. Is that hypocritical? Probably. The difference is I don't stay down there. I need to see adequate D and adjust for realistic timing.

Getting back to why I asked the question. In general, most people would drop the difficulty. My point in this thread comes from that inference and some annoyed personal experiences with friends (and a StonyBrook dorm room). I didn't think it was a far-fetched conclusion to draw that people do change the gameplay sliders as they would the difficulty to make the game easier/more enjoyable/playable. Apparently, in a hypothetical situation, neither do you. Again, gaming philosophy.