NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

[Colts18]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

I think they don't call those bumps as fouls is because there would just be too many fouls. Also, speaking of collisions, anyone else find it odd that you can take a player on defense and SPRINT into any offensive player and not create a major collision/foul? NBA Live 95 had this right where if you Turbo-ed into an offensive player the offensive player would fall down. Maybe it is a way to control fouls but damn, give us an option for super realism

[jmarcguy]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

Really good vid! I think we tend to forget realistic bball approaches to defense & as Czar says, play video game defense. This was a helpful reminder.

I miss the old "Czarisode" theme though!!

[tcnumba10]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

I am playing on all star right now. I have not found the bumping to be excessive but my defensive style as in the video is more passive in meeting and cutting off.

Is this mostly you are able to bump the cpu too much or do you find they are able to bump you too much as well ?

I thought most were thinking the cpu is too slippery already. Maybe *** everyone's defense get's better we will see what you see.

I do believe that their foul system needs to catch up with the new physics some of those bumps should be fouls as well as in air collisions. For that to work the contests HAVE to be both consistent and controllable. So were not fouling out because of auto-contests.

I experience the excessive bumping when I am on the defensive side of the ball. Using Jose Calderon, a sub-par defender, I am able to stop Rose, an elite scorer, from penetrating just by keeping my man in front of him and bumping him back out on the perimeter when Rose comes in contact with me. This shouldn't happen and that is why I am requesting that 2k should implement more situations where you see the ball-handler slide/snake by his defender in close quarters (should of ball-handler is up against the defender's chest as he drive past him animation). I don't really see the cpu bump me back out on the perimeter but I don't mind it when I see it since I mostly create my shots from mid-range instead of driving to the hoop all the time.

[Sausage]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

I love at the end he said "you have the tools..you just have to practice". To many folks here want instant gratification, unless your playing on rookie (which can be tough for some)...you need to practice and not come on here posting this game cheats or is to hard threads.

[DJ]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

I love at the end he said "you have the tools..you just have to practice". To many folks here want instant gratification, unless your playing on rookie (which can be tough for some)...you need to practice and not come on here posting this game cheats or is to hard threads.

No doubt. I'm going to be playing tonight for the first time in a week. I'm going to try and incorporate the teachings Czar has handed out over the past week, but I'm sure my rust will be evident and I'll struggle to get things going early.

Still, I'd much rather have a game that has a lot of depth and can't be mastered overnight as opposed to other sports games where you have to use sliders that are slanted heavily in the CPU's favor, on top of numerous "house rules" to keep the game interesting.

[sirjam]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

The beautiful thing about d in this game which Czar mentioned, u can tell the difference when u control elite defenders as opposed to sub par ones. Ex control Pippen an then Kerr. U will feel the difference. Absolut thing of beauty!

[Sundown]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da Czar)

I do not know why but I think it needs to be fixed. User input should override everything. I think this is an area they can improve on. I definitely don't like the combination of the hands up = a shot contest. Maybe I want to stay where I am...and contest from a distance... So these are things I think they can improve on.

I know some will disagree but I don't mind a little on-the-ground auto-contest with hands up, especially if it looks realistic. If they can move it to be fully user controlled, and I can still react like players in the NBA (or even me playing pickup) can, and it still looks realistic, then I'm all for it. If this were done, the transition from hands up to contest shot needs to be smooth and responsive and I should be able to get a good feel of when to contest, especially in the paint. I should also be able to keep it held down and keep the arm extended even if the timing of the contest is little early, though it might not be as effective as if it were correctly timed.

Seems this would require the controls to be changed somewhat so we can do both a full block and a standing contest. Would clicking the right stick be a good place to put contest shot? I accidentally click it all the time anyway when trying to contest shots with hands up. But instead of contesting, my player rushes the shooter and hugs the air because it's mapped to wraparound foul. Maybe wraparound foul needs to be moved to LT-select in that case, or be contextually activated with intentional foul.

What I *do* know is that when I smash and hold Y, it should override any on-the-ground auto contests and I should attempt a real block. Tapping Y should cause me to abort with a halfhearted block like it did last year (and what the animations force me into sometimes this year).

Maybe this is how it would work and rank in terms of effectiveness and pros/cons. These are listed in order of how much they can affect shot percentages/result in actual blocks.

Turbo Y: Big swat. Risky, foul prone, but also more likely to block shots. Unrecoverable when mistimed. Affects shots when timed well, even without getting a block, but maybe not as effective when mistimed.

Y Block. More conservative version of Turbo Y. Less risky, less foul prone, hard to recover from, affects shots but not as much as Turbo. Still effective when slightly mistimed.

Contest Shot. Affects shots without leaving the ground, but not as effective as a block attempt. More effective at very close range. Less likely to result in a block. Low risk, decent reward-- effective if you are able to keep up and stay in your shooter's face.

Hands Up. Affects shots at close range, but not as effective as intentional contest. Minimal risk.

Tap Y Block. Basically an aborted, non-committal block. Still affects shots minimally. Allows you to recover after misanticipating.


Oh, and I do hope 2K works on the hands-up animation next year. It's one of the few that still looks robotic, twitchy, and unnatural. They've tried to smooth out pretty much everything else. I'd like to see this one look good, especially if we're going to use it often.

[Hehmke22]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

All I can say to the CZAR is Thank you, Thank you, Thank you....

Playing on HOF Sim with Portland in Association, and watched this video recently.

The main aspect that put me over the top was beating the dribbler to the spot instead of just facing him up trying to slow them down. Won a couple games in a row since I watched and everything makes so much more sense ,

This man CZAR should be given mad props and anyone complaining about getting beat needs to sit down and watch the strategy videos.

[Jesus]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

I am playing on all star right now. I have not found the bumping to be excessive but my defensive style as in the video is more passive in meeting and cutting off.

Is this mostly you are able to bump the cpu too much or do you find they are able to bump you too much as well ?

I thought most were thinking the cpu is too slippery already. Maybe *** everyone's defense get's better we will see what you see.

I do believe that their foul system needs to catch up with the new physics some of those bumps should be fouls as well as in air collisions. For that to work the contests HAVE to be both consistent and controllable. So were not fouling out because of auto-contests.

i think 2k11 was more a bit better about calling fouls on in air collisions. Up and unders seem to draw more fouls. Disproportionately so.

[Jesus]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

I experience the excessive bumping when I am on the defensive side of the ball. Using Jose Calderon, a sub-par defender, I am able to stop Rose, an elite scorer, from penetrating just by keeping my man in front of him and bumping him back out on the perimeter when Rose comes in contact with me. This shouldn't happen and that is why I am requesting that 2k should implement more situations where you see the ball-handler slide/snake by his defender in close quarters (should of ball-handler is up against the defender's chest as he drive past him animation). I don't really see the cpu bump me back out on the perimeter but I don't mind it when I see it since I mostly create my shots from mid-range instead of driving to the hoop all the time.

I get what you are saying. As of now you have to get past a mans shoulder to get a step on him. When in reality it all starts with the hips turning too slowly and that is replicated by 2k wit some of the animations it has where you quickly slink by. That animation should play out more in mismatches and the one where the defense is riding the offensive player and denying the angle should as well.

[SIZEqueen]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

The beautiful thing about d in this game which Czar mentioned, u can tell the difference when u control elite defenders as opposed to sub par ones. Ex control Pippen an then Kerr. U will feel the difference. Absolut thing of beauty!

Disagree entirely. Every defender in this game is damn near perfect. I have taken guys like Calderon and taken his on ball d down to 25, then gone into practice against him. If you use iso moves in certain spots, against him, or say Sony Weems they will trigger the same animation at the same moment.

Defense in this game is a joke, and the bumping has got to go. Czar said it in a much more diplomatic way by saying he feels some of the contact should be called fouls in relation to the new physics engine.

All you have to do to play decent defense is hold in left trigger. The canimations will take care of the rest. If Calderon at 25 on ball d can predict where I am going each and every time when I use a player like Rose or Rondo, then the game is flawed. There are no justifications.

[Strings74]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

Love Da Czar!

He's got the best voice ever. I could listen to him read the phonebook.

Don't play videogames, play basketball!

[jmarcguy]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

Maybe we need a vid that touches on "hedge" settings & such.

[jersez]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

I agree the bumping isn't very realitistic, defense should look more like this <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Iou1L27tyZI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

and this

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ver7OaentQk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Sundown]

Re: NBA 2K12 Video - Strategy Session 7: On Ball Defense (Da_Czar)

I agree the bumping isn't very realitistic, defense should look more like this

Good defense should look like that. But I wouldn't what such suffocating defense on every possession because it wouldn't be realistic. These are highlights for a reason, and to be able to do that should cost some fatigue or be dependent on your defender's on ball and defensive clutch ratings. They would need to model how a player can't be that focused for a whole game, but rather for a few key possessions.