This game is simply button smashing ******ation...

[bigd916]

Re: This game is simply button smashing ******ation...

I agree.

I'll still play it but 2k12 has to be my least favorite 2k title in a while

[maddcatt]

Re: This game is simply button smashing ******ation...

I have said it before and I will say it again ....make FATIGUE a bigger factor in these sports games

Hit the sprint and steal buttons all you want, plat tight and pressing DEF with everybody but if these are abused then these players fatigue rate should be affected dramatically ESPECIALLY !!and more so when you are playing like this throught the whole game

The quick online games are easily in arcade mode because with 5 min quarters and all your timeouts ...Players will hardly fatigue at all in these games and the bench players pretty much become a non-factor.

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: This game is simply button smashing ******ation...

To piggy back a little of the OP's rage in a more civilized manner, all I have to say is this. I don't think the issue here is people actively exploiting. I think they flat out just don't know the game. The problem arises when bad play not only doesn't get punished, it gets rewarded. Say your typical ranked dummy tries to double your point guard coming up the court with his sg, or sf. You make a quick pass and pop the open j a few times. But then something happens, he fails to change so you stick to the wide open looks. But now they aren't dropping, and he's getting fast break points off the miss. Why is the game artificially keeping him in it? In situations like this, realistic or not, as long as the shot is within the players range, and he's not dead beat tired, this should be RARE to miss. 2k can program it to punish bad play. Not have your guys start missing so the opponent can go on a run and have a close game at the end.

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: This game is simply button smashing ******ation...

It will happen. The question has always been how do you differentiate someone from each camp without alienating both?

B/c what someone would refer to as a cheeser here is going to want to rule both avenues. Remember - win at all costs. Just look at what people were doing to crew.

I'm sure once they find a way to do it they will. To give you guys some insight - there were lobbies up that allowed custom settings last year which people RARELY utilized. Everyone wants a quick game... but their expectations are not always the same in what they want out of that quick game.

The problem with those lobbies, is noone knew the settings if they were being invited. You couldn't preview, that's why I just invited friends to custom matches. But that point is moot because neither option is available this year. But custom lobbies where you could preview the settings, would be AMAZING.

[RogerBlack]

Re: This game is simply button smashing ******ation...

Just my $02 cents...

All these folks (in this thread) who keep saying "if you don't like online gameplay, then just play offline only"... are completely ridiculous.

ANALOGY: If there is ONLY 1 car company on the planet... and they make a car that won't start properly at night... then people sound silly telling folks to only drive during the day... instead of suggesting ways the manufacturer can "upgrade their engine parts" so that cars can operate efficiently both day & night.



Now don't get me wrong, 2K12 is a decent game.... but the ONLINE flaws are just inexcusable, imo.

In real life...ALL SPORTS... from Ping-Pong to the NBA... are about "Human vs Human" competition.

Not Human vs CPU.

That is WHY a "head-to-head" mode is even needed, in the first place.
So that "real people" can compete against "real people" - not just against machines.


But the big problem is this year... is the ONLINE (PS3) version of gameplay does NOT match-up to the OFFLINE version of gameplay. Period. (Btw, mad props to Most1ted for accurately describing the most egregious problems)

And for the record... comparing a video game to a "real-world" pick-up game of basketball is just silly. Because any decent "baller" KNOWS exactly how to defeat "cheesers". Whether playing a video game, or in the real-world.

But when playing 2K12... the loss of controller "responsiveness"... puts every "decent" ballplayer / gamer at a DISTINCT DISADVANTAGE, by preventing 'proper execution'... and just promotes even more "cheesy" gaming habits.

Because when cheesers "spam the steal button".. and you are unable to swing the ball around quickly to the 'open man'.. or when your highly-rated 80+ players consistently miss 'wide open' short or mid-range jumpers... there is absolutely NO incentive to play 'real basketball' anymore. (and at worst, there is NO incentive to even play this game AT ALL)

So now... you have to make a decision when playing against 'cheesers' online...

1. try to play 'real basketball' and get badly blown-out, or...
2. turn the game into a cheese-fest... just to stay close.

Now if that is exactly what 2K was aiming for.... then congratulations. Mission Accomplished. Bravo.

But if "the most athletic team" consistently wins these cheese-fests... you are no longer playing "basketball" online. It's just another sports "arcade" game... minus all the "stiff jabs to the face" and the boisterous announcer yelling "BOOM-SHAKA-LAKA!!!!"

Why?

Because if the most athletic team ALWAYS won in the NBA...
Larry Bird would have ZERO championship rings. That's why. Understand?

In every promotional video for NBA 2K12 I see posted online.... the developers THEMSELVES claim they are striving to make "the most realistic SIM possible".

So giving advice like... "stop playing online & just play offline only".... completely defeats that objective. Don't you think?

How about suggesting ways the 2K developers can improve these "human vs human" gameplay flaws instead?

Because staying offline is NOT a real solution for folks who expect to "get their money's worth". That's unacceptable.

This means 2K will alienate their 'online gamers' and leave the door wiiide open for competitors to capitalize on their missteps.

As video game consumers... if we are limited to only play (offline) against the CPU in order to achieve a semi-realistic type of basketball experience... then maybe 2K should NOT attempt to make an NBA game with ANY online features... at all. Problem Solved.

They should remove all online components. Or fix 'em right.

Because if there are NO online features included when the game ships... people will NOT have a right to complain. Period. (Assuming they even buy the game in the first place, that is)

[Pared]

Re: This game is simply button smashing ******ation...

I swear - I think the NBA forum has to be the complete worst when to comes to analogies b/w a game and car/company/girlfriend.

[Emanstheman]

Re: This game is simply button smashing ******ation...

I swear - I think the NBA forum has to be the complete worst when to comes to analogies b/w a game and car/company/girlfriend.

LOL... I can dig it... but I got the car analogy... although it was weird... But I really felt the girlfriend one, ESPECIALLY the red head hahaha....

2k11 was my ish, and it was so fundamental... I could beat someone who didn't know what they were doing... I played good basketball, and stopped most anybody...

2k12, even the weak survive...

[c1champ]

Re: This game is simply button smashing ******ation...

my biggest gripe is the unresponsiveness, sometimes it feels like you are not controlling your player.

[Mos1ted]

Re: This game is simply button smashing ******ation...

The thing I love about O.S. is the analogies. LOL

[Mos1ted]

Re: This game is simply button smashing ******ation...

Just my $02 cents...

All these folks (in this thread) who keep saying "if you don't like online gameplay, then just play offline only"... are completely ridiculous.

ANALOGY: If there is ONLY 1 car company on the planet... and they make a car that won't start properly at night... then people sound silly telling folks to only drive during the day... instead of suggesting ways the manufacturer can "upgrade their engine parts" so that cars can operate efficiently both day & night.



Now don't get me wrong, 2K12 is a decent game.... but the ONLINE flaws are just inexcusable, imo.

In real life...ALL SPORTS... from Ping-Pong to the NBA... are about "Human vs Human" competition.

Not Human vs CPU.

That is WHY a "head-to-head" mode is even needed, in the first place.
So that "real people" can compete against "real people" - not just against machines.


But the big problem is this year... is the ONLINE (PS3) version of gameplay does NOT match-up to the OFFLINE version of gameplay. Period. (Btw, mad props to Most1ted for accurately describing the most egregious problems)

And for the record... comparing a video game to a "real-world" pick-up game of basketball is just silly. Because any decent "baller" KNOWS exactly how to defeat "cheesers". Whether playing a video game, or in the real-world.

But when playing 2K12... the loss of controller "responsiveness"... puts every "decent" ballplayer / gamer at a DISTINCT DISADVANTAGE, by preventing 'proper execution'... and just promotes even more "cheesy" gaming habits.

Because when cheesers "spam the steal button".. and you are unable to swing the ball around quickly to the 'open man'.. or when your highly-rated 80+ players consistently miss 'wide open' short or mid-range jumpers... there is absolutely NO incentive to play 'real basketball' anymore. (and at worst, there is NO incentive to even play this game AT ALL)

So now... you have to make a decision when playing against 'cheesers' online...

1. try to play 'real basketball' and get badly blown-out, or...
2. turn the game into a cheese-fest... just to stay close.

Now if that is exactly what 2K was aiming for.... then congratulations. Mission Accomplished. Bravo.

But if "the most athletic team" consistently wins these cheese-fests... you are no longer playing "basketball" online. It's just another sports "arcade" game... minus all the "stiff jabs to the face" and the boisterous announcer yelling "BOOM-SHAKA-LAKA!!!!"

Why?

Because if the most athletic team ALWAYS won in the NBA...
Larry Bird would have ZERO championship rings. That's why. Understand?

In every promotional video for NBA 2K12 I see posted online.... the developers THEMSELVES claim they are striving to make "the most realistic SIM possible".

So giving advice like... "stop playing online & just play offline only".... completely defeats that objective. Don't you think?

How about suggesting ways the 2K developers can improve these "human vs human" gameplay flaws instead?

Because staying offline is NOT a real solution for folks who expect to "get their money's worth". That's unacceptable.

This means 2K will alienate their 'online gamers' and leave the door wiiide open for competitors to capitalize on their missteps.

As video game consumers... if we are limited to only play (offline) against the CPU in order to achieve a semi-realistic type of basketball experience... then maybe 2K should NOT attempt to make an NBA game with ANY online features... at all. Problem Solved.

They should remove all online components. Or fix 'em right.

Because if there are NO online features included when the game ships... people will NOT have a right to complain. Period. (Assuming they even buy the game in the first place, that is)

I'm glad somebody here feels my frustration. I thought I was Tom Hanks in Castaway for a second: on an island by myself. [/OS analogy]

Most of us are here at OS for two reasons: We love sports, and we sports video games. When I first joined OS back '02, the expectations for sports games weren't as high as they are now. We realized, at the time, that technology wasn't advanced enough to deliver that ultra-realistic experience. So naturally, as technology improved each year and with the new console generations, our expectations started to rise with it. You can blame EA and their Madden '06 CGI commercial for that LOL. I guess we are coming to the realization that technology can't deliver exactly what it is we're looking for.

And in case developers are unclear what it is we're looking for, here are some suggestions:

1.) Realistic movement from the players on the field/court. Players shouldn't be warping or sliding to move from Point A to Point B.

2.) Ball physics that are separate from everything else in the game. The ball should be its own unique object at all times. 2K12 had this at launch, but this effect seems to have diminished with the patches. My hypothesis is that they did this in an effort to cut down on steals online, but you negatively affect other aspects of the game when doing this.

3.) Control responsiveness in respect to a player's position and momentum We understand the need for animations to replicate natural motion and movement, and we also understand that everything shouldn't happen the second we command it to because of this. But under no circumstance should control responsiveness go away to give a certain advantage to the opponent. If someone is trying to steal the ball from me, I should not lose the ability to isomotion away from him just so he can recover and continue to D me up. Also, if I have the step on my defender and choose to explode to open space whether it's to the rim, up court, etc., I should not lose control for 2 seconds for the defender to react.

4.) Realistic consequences for unrealistic actions If my opponent chooses to spam the steal button the entire game, let him. Don't try to "patch" the problem to limit its effectiveness. Instead, implement the tools to punish him the proper way, whether it be increased fatigue for him, more reach-in fouls, or the control I deserve to pass the ball or cross him up. If he wants to run around the perimeter trying to penetrate all day, that's why the NBA has charging calls. The fact that charging calls are almost nonexistent in these moments is unacceptable. That's not basketball. That's video games. (Yes, I know it's a video game, people.)

5.) Reward more skillful and knowledgeable players for being skillful and knowledgeable players. One trend I have noticed in the past two years or so is the tendency for video games to artificially make the A.I. more challenging rather than smarter. We understand that playing on the game's highest difficulty setting is suppose to be more challenging than playing on the default or easiest setting. But why is that the CPU is given "unhumanlike" advantages, such as total awareness of where the ball is at all times, the ability to move faster than the human-controlled player despite attributes that say otherwise, the ability to make any shot/score despite the defense's best efforts, etc.? Those type of advantages pretty much negate the need to move up in difficulty. What ends up happening is that you now have gamers like me who are dissatisfied because the game is too easy on this level and too hard on that one. And it's not that we don't mind losing: It's the way we are losing. If Susie gets a 100 on a test and I got an 87, I would like to think it's because she studied and knew the material better than I did, not because she cheated.

6.) Players playing within themselves. The whole purpose for including individual athletes is so that players will play like their real life counterparts, right? So why allow players to play above themselves on a consistent basis? Derek Fisher and Jason Kidd are two of the oldest point guards in the league. They should not be able to run stride for stride with the likes of John Wall and Brandon Jennings in the open court.

Adding these elements should add the human vs human games more positively. The reason why so much cheesing takes place in the first place is because the aforementioned gameplay elements are not always included or adhered to in some sports games. Instead of dumbing down the game for those who lack the knowledge, how about showing them how the game should be played? Don't cater the game to them so they can be happy. If they are buying a simulation game, they should expect to play the game the way it is in real life. This is why there have always been a separation between arcade sports titles and simulation titles. Arcade titles are geared towards those who just want to have fun. Simulation titles should be geared towards those who want replication.

[keshunleon]

Re: This game is simply button smashing ******ation...

Online play is still bad but better!!!

Fatigue sucks, fouls are limited, and the lag effects the gameplay

Now cheesers do full court press and steal the ball, it's ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

I lost 2 games in the 4th after winning by 10+... The guy reached all game but in the 3rd Ty Lawson had 4 fouls... In the 4th qtr he stole the ball about 8 times before I reached my 3pt line and not one foul called.

2k fix this!!!!!!!!!!!!