OFFICIAL OFFLINE ASSOCIATION MODE SUPPORT

[ffaacc03]

Re: OFFICIAL OFFLINE ASSOCIATION MODE SUPPORT

I think that the most important suggestion we can make is to ask them to stick with the most underappreciated yet most distinguished feature within the franchise history: customization/editability.

Each and everyone of us has a unique perception of how the players, teams and the league should behave. We might share some things between us but the point is to be able to edit/alter whatever doesnt fit our view and "fix" it, to be able to customize our perfect association.

- Last year they introduced the new AI for drafting and trading, leaving aside that they did not gave us "detailed" and specific info about how long does it takes for the AI to implement its plans and of how long takes a team to go from one stance to the other and that it seemingly didnt work ... what was/is more frustrating is that we cant decide which teams are on what stance ... last year they gave DAL & SA & PHO a selling stance, so we saw Dirk/Manu/Nash beeing traded while their teams were still competitive ... so, we need to be able to edit that.
We need to have stablished parameters of how long does the stances last for the teams, specially for appreciating what the AI does.

- Also, as already stated, team chemestry has a say on the standings, yet we cant alter it to try and reflect a current trend.

- Players have some things that tend to matter them the most, like money, winning, etc ... yet we cant alter that to try and make then fit our perception of what they seem to prefer the most.

- Coaches tend to move within both, the season and the offseason, thus we cant currently do that. We have "need" the coaches movement and the create a coach for some years now. We also need to edit the coaches attributes as we do with the players, to fit our perception.

- We need a AI trading logic that is based on the team stance but highly integrated to the team needs. Aside from the normal factors that are considered, such as payroll, player contract, etc. We also need this AI to consider the moment in question ... how is the team doing, how far in the season are we, how long have the recent "pieces" join the team to consider them not fittable.

- We need that the options given to the users, matter ... as of now there are some that dont, like has been noted: assigments of rotations (some players that have 0 mins assigned still play), cpu rotations and players morale totally obviate player roles, assigments of task for the cpu, etc.


Others ...

- We need a bugless stat tracking screen ... for the last 4 itinerations this screen has presented unaccurate data due to bugs.

- We need FA to have some sort of high impact on the rumor mill, like news about a player deciding between 2 suitors, or of players going after the highest bidder or the bidder with a winning club, etc.

- We need the attributes to have a better correlation between ingame results and sim stats results ... when simming, default roster attributes only produce a max of 10 teams (too few) even or above "the avg" FG% for teams, vs what happened last season ... also, a max of 10 teams (too few) even of bellow the avg 3pts FG% ... also, the vast majority of teams are bellow the avg ppg, thus thi last thing is more due to Tempo.

- If possible, a separate new variable such as "market value" (btw, editable) would be a welcomed integration to the trade value calculation currently composed by just overall and potential ... this would allow potential to mainly affect progression and just a bit the trade value, and the new factor to affect more relevantly the trade value ... this would also allow 2k not to biase or manipulate individual attributes to get a dessired overall or trade value ... the new variable, by nature would be subjective and therefor, allow for a better experience.

- A real dynamic commentary that accounts for things that happen within the association, like rising of new stars, past season individual and team stats leaders, player movement (trades & signings, coaches), etc.

[ronyell]

Re: OFFICIAL OFFLINE ASSOCIATION MODE SUPPORT

bump...

[bfrombleacher]

Re: OFFICIAL OFFLINE ASSOCIATION MODE SUPPORT

Lastly I think is actual player logic. It's not terrible per se but it could be better. Guys should want to go to certain teams depending on what category they fall under, chemistry and lastly the contract. Just like how guys have dream teams they'd want to play for based on the situation that's what also should happen in game. Chris Paul shouldn't feel inclined to sign with the Bobcats because they offer him a huge contact especially since they aren't a championship contender let alone a playoff contender. Players should have a minimum threshold for signing like Chris Paul would require the team to at least be Developing for example before he'd sign but then another guy who is far younger doesn't care about the situation. These preferences should also affect whether a guy wants to be traded to a team for example this would make trades more strategic. Sure I could trade Dwight Howard to the Timberwolves for a ridiculous draw buy because the team doesn't meet his criteria he didn't want to play their and the Wolves don't want to make the trade. On the flipside if he cares but if his addition after everything they give up makes them a Playoff Content for example he'd be ok with the trade.

I couldn't have said it better. Seems like NBA players in 2k only care about money and playing time. Can't really be patched so fingers crossed for 2k13.

I have a lot of suggestions and biffs with the Association in 2k. I've stopped playing Association now since I've finally found a way to make the gameplay enjoyable.

[ronyell]

Re: OFFICIAL OFFLINE ASSOCIATION MODE SUPPORT

I couldn't have said it better. Seems like NBA players in 2k only care about money and playing time. Can't really be patched so fingers crossed for 2k13.

I have a lot of suggestions and biffs with the Association in 2k. I've stopped playing Association now since I've finally found a way to make the gameplay enjoyable.

please list them sir... the point of this thread: if 2k doesnt know the amount of people that are delved into this mode; why would they give it their main or major attention?

need ur support

[bfrombleacher]

Re: OFFICIAL OFFLINE ASSOCIATION MODE SUPPORT

please list them sir... the point of this thread: if 2k doesnt know the amount of people that are delved into this mode; why would they give it their main or major attention?

need ur support

I forgot to mention I'm burning the midnight oil and doing an essay now lol.

[bfrombleacher]

Re: OFFICIAL OFFLINE ASSOCIATION MODE SUPPORT

Better substitution/rotation/player role system

This one pertains to both Association and "normal" 2k12 and has been mentioned in this thread. Our AI coach is crazy. He plays the bench warmer in a tight game. He plays the star when we're up 20 in the 4th.

I think a more comprehensive rotation/player role system should be used in conjunction with the minutes thing. I think just like with the playcalling roles, there should be more than 1 "role" per player and the roles should be more comprehensive. More roles and better fitting roles.

I'll take Nate Robinson to illustrate my point with multiple roles. I would assign him roles like, for example, "offensive energy player" and "3 pt specialist" (like when you designate plays in the edit player/my player screen).

The CPU would sub him in when the offense stagnates or when a three is needed (perhaps the 3pt specialist role is a bit redundant as the CPU can use 3pt ratings. But this is just an example). I would not assign him roles like, say, "rebounder" or "defensive specialist" or "defensive energy player" because those are not his strengths. I may also assign him "6th man" and, in that case, he would be my CPU "coach's" first option off the bench. Perhaps 7th men...etc. could also be implemented.

On top of having a comprehensive role, Nate Robinson would also be assigned minutes. The minutes would be a guideline and as the association progresses it should average out to something around the minutes he's given. Come to think of it, I might even have anti-roles like "defensive liability" and "bad rebounder". The NBA is all about matchups and 2k has to recognize that. The AI may not be smart enough to do it like a real human being does but at least this'll make it slightly more realistic.

And of course, if this were to be implemented then it has to apply to simmed games as well. And the CPU has to be smart enough to change the roles as players improve/decline.


Player growth

Surprised no-one mentioned this. Its understandable that this is really hard to implement but having a league full of 80 OVR is just unrealistic. A simple letter grade for potential doesn't quite cut it. I think there are some very interesting ways of simulating this.

An immediate fix I'd say is to have a harder cap. A lot of players don't improve much past their first two season and they're called role players (and I do think 2k should also recognize this).

Better yet...

Players do break out and improve dramatically but not like in 2k, where every player does. Maybe a rating (editable of course) of how likely a so-so player would break out can be implemented. An RNG can be put in to see which player improves by selecting them randomly, which would also cap the number of players who improve. Maybe the more you train the player and the higher his improvement rating, the more the RNG will favor you and the more likely your player will break out.

A rating for the player's attitude (again, editable) perhaps would also determine how likely he'd break out and how likely he'd improve. Demarcus Cousins, for example, has a heck of a lot of potential to develop (so I like the potential rating) but his attitude, which even the commentators themselves say so, is questionable. Would you risk it and draft him? This ties in real nice with the coach's teacher (or whatever its called) rating.

We could even have events (like training with Hakeem, which Dwight did I think) that would improve this, just like in my player (but this idea is kind of outlandish and unrelated).

That's not to say that other players don't improve. Maybe 2k can check year-on-year stats and use that to create RNGs that would have a few players improve drastically, some improve quite a bit, some improve in one or two aspects and do the same for players that are declining.

I can envision it. You eye a player like Darko Milicic. Scouts tout him and you work out with him and see the potential. As it turns out...he's a bust! You invest a lot of money in him. You pay him a nice contract, you give him an elite personal trainer and have a HOF'er train with him (again, outlandish idea but would like to see it). Some teams just have tough luck drafting players. Maybe you should've played it safe and went with the next guy, who turned out to be a solid starter...I'm dreaming now...

The letter grade potential system has to go.

Player decline

Now on the flip side. Shooters get better as they age, like fine wine. Post players get smarter. Some older players even find a niche or improve some aspect of their game in their decline.

I think the injuries and fatigue that come with age are not well reflected which can probably be solved by a patch.

Hopping in and out of games mid-sim

I think Live had this option. Why not? I have other things to do, unfortunately, and I would like to not have to play the entire game of my somewhat important first round game.

CPU team building

This has definitely been mentioned in this thread. Bad teams stay bad. This problem is rooted very deep.

I believe the playstyle of a team determines how its built. Evidence: I find in the fantasy draft the first few picks are set. Dwight Howard. LeBron James...etc. etc. The latter parts are where it gets interesting. When I play a fantasy draft CPU team on fantasy draft, the positions reflect their real life counterparts. For example, playing the Lakers, I find their SG is a good scorer, their SF is Thaddeus Young (a decent defender and 3 pt shooter like Ron Artest I believe)... etc. etc. I think there's a little bit of the CPU following the formula instead of drafting/trading smart. I think the Raptors CPU has a hard time coming out of the ditch because in the 'real' rosters, none of their players are above 80 OVR.

I'm not sure if the CPU is smart enough to do this but maybe it could edit the playbooks in 2k13 to suit the talent?




I ended up coming back and doing this anyway haha. Really want a good association mode. Sorry its a bit jumbled and messy and that it might contain jibberish cos its 2:30 AM :P. Will come back and edit it if I have time Great thread by the way.

[KGDunks]

Re: OFFICIAL OFFLINE ASSOCIATION MODE SUPPORT

I want to the ability to relocate teams, edit arenas and a better uniform creator that can be used if you can relocate teams.

[ronyell]

Re: OFFICIAL OFFLINE ASSOCIATION MODE SUPPORT

• i would like the ability to assign what players sub in at what positions, in what order
• ability to promote assistant coaches to head coaches
• trainers NOT making 1 mil per year
• lingering injuries (players that have acl tears - out for year, shouldnot in most cases come back from IR with the exact same physical abilities
• woud like to see dleague have more of an effect PERIOD.
• go back to old FREE AGENT OFFSEASON period concept wher you could see that other moves that other teams were making
• franchise ability, not a tag but a player or a few that are tagged as untouble by the team in terms of roster movement. they would require a lil lore to allow this player to leave thier team, in terms of free agency AND trades. this should also be tied to a "BUILD AROUND PLAYER X" for GM/team logic

more to come...

MORE SUPPORT PLEASE

[Jukeman]

I would like to see player roles/abilties

-Guys with major injuries picking up the abilty of injury prone (or similar)

-Vets picking up leadership ability (coach on floor)

-Team distraction (ability or "cancer" lol)

And etc..

Remove the current way player roles are used and just have it in as negotiation tactic (pitch Starter to a player in which another team pitch 6th man and etc)

Edit- lol basically what Yellz said





Sent from my HumancentiPad using Tapatalk

[Schnoop]

Injured players should not decrease in moral that quick. In my Association Shawn Marion was injured for five weeks, his moral dropped to 0 and did not go up a bit, despite playing him above his role for the next three weeks.

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk

[KGDunks]

Re: OFFICIAL OFFLINE ASSOCIATION MODE SUPPORT

The ability to start an association with current injuries like you can in Madden should be implemented for sure. I would also like injuries like bad knee injuries to actually affect players for their rest of their career (think Broy ;_; )
Also if players say break a finger they'll automatically where tape or have it strapped. So basically injury related gear knee braces etc.

[bfrombleacher]

Re: OFFICIAL OFFLINE ASSOCIATION MODE SUPPORT

Right now, the only thing that effects chemistry is W/L record and morale (which is flawed in its own way)

Guys like Jason Kidd, Grant Hill and Steve Nash doesn't have an effect on team chemistry neither does having a core group of players on the team for several years.

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I remembered this and came back just to quote this. Teammate chemistry needs to be revamped (but not broke, like the [imo] momentum in games) (should be implemented in quick games as well, in my opinion. The Mavs beating the Heat is a testament to the importance of chemistry over talent). I think I read somewhere on this thread player locker-room roles. Indeed some players are a locker room presence, some players just exist and some players are locker room poison. Some players also mature. Right now, you can just blow up a team anytime you want without any repercussions. This obviously has to be editable, though, if they do implement it. Vet players should also have more value added because right now vets are just there for their stats.

Trades also shouldn't happen too often and it ties in the teammate chemistry (so should be fixed if implemented well). You can initiate a trade anytime and you could move players around 50 times a season. This time, you'd think twice before blowing up a team because it'd destroy your chemistry.

This is a bit of a stretch but association is about simulating the NBA. Coaches and players sometimes don't get along. Hell, players sometimes don't get along. Once in a blue moon it would affect GM decision (Kobe and Shaq anyone?). I'd say have an RNG for that and the RNG would be skewed by the players' and the coaches' lockerroom grade. This would also encourage getting players who are less able on court but less likely to destroy the team you spent so much time building.

Come to think of it, touches should be implemented better. Like playing time, touches are important for players who want to up their stock (currently, that's everyone). You'd have a rotation-esque screen and you'd be smart to give your good players the touches. This would work tremendously with sim in association and also in my player (and tracking your touches would also be interesting).

Homecourt and fans

Homecourt advantage is too much, especially when you sim it (although I don't know for this year, since I haven't played association much because its not sim D and that's why you don't really see dominant teams and a lot of crappy teams make the playoffs.. Local support, attendance and the importance of the game should affect how well the players play as well (maybe it'd boost their OVR a little. [nothing momentum related, please, until 2k fixes it. But it'd be really nice to see a home team take advantage of their homecourt advantage and go on a run. But momentum is broke so too bad.]) (should probably work in quick games and other modes as well. The gamer should be able to edit it and turn it on/off. Homecourt advantage should also be editable). I'm not a big fan of anything outside basketball if you're going to implement it into a 2kbball game because, in my opinion, it'd just prevent them from implementing more important stuff, no offense intended. Homecourt advantage and crowd support, however, is important. A team like the Nuggets is a completely different beast at home.

Coaching

Someone else said coaching on this thread. Agreed. Coaching should be revamped. Again, I'm not a big proponent of non-basketball related stuff but coaches do affect chemistry. Phil Jackson leaving would've burned the Lakers's chemistry a lot. But in Association coaches are interchangeable and the only stat you really care about is their teacher stat (or whatever its called) so your players improve. Coaches can affect how well a team executes a play, how well they can stop runs, play defense...etc. It'd be insane if, when I switch coaches, the same system and team look completely different. (Look at the Bulls. Got rid of Del Negro and got Thibedeau. Went from an East bottom half seeded team to an, arguably, top 8 or top 5 team.)

The in game coach mode is kind of weak as well. I wish I could draw up a play for the next timeout like a coach does(although that's a stretch, thanks to cheesers. But then again those same cheesers would be busy hop stepping. Online is broke anyway.) Doc Rivers is amazing at drawing up sideline plays and maybe if they can make a smart-enough CPU, I'd see vastly different plays that they draw up out of the timeout and see the difference in coaching (I'd love to see what Mike Brown draws up lol. Isolate Kobe again, just like what you did with Lebron in Cleveland? All fun and games, no offense meant to coaches or fans or anyone :P). I once wanted create-a-play but I wouldn't care for it if 2k just continues implementing more plays and makes assigning plays easier (the plays are just so cool in 2k12).

2k11 had that focus thing (like crash the boards, focus on protecting the ball or something). 2k12 now has preset coach sliders (spread the floor, screen for shooters, pressure shooters for defense). There should be sliders for coaches so they can 'tell' players what to focus on.

Player IQ

If you have a good point guard, they should make good decisions and run good plays and if you have a bad one, they wouldn't make the right calls. The IQ of players should have more of an impact, by the way, and maybe more comprehensive (maybe a take good shots slider and a smart defense slider). Paul Pierce is slow but he's very unpredictable and very offensively savvy. Shane Battier studies his opponent before defending them and he's far from a physical specimen. This way, you wouldn't have to give players that don't have the physical gifts ratings that aren't right (like Kobe and LeBron. Kobe is a much smarter player in terms of creating his own offense compared to LeBron and I'm definitely not a fan of either. Maybe that'd give 2k incentive to tune down ""clutch"").

Team building

Teams build differently depending on what they have. Young teams might look toward the future and stock up draft picks and young players with one or two vets to help with their experience.

This is a hell of a stretch but as an association junkie, why not:
You have Dwight. You could go in the direction of Orlando and get a lot of shooters and role players. You could build a superteam. You could build a well balanced team with a good PG. The CPU should do that too. Rather than having to be restricted by their playbooks and their coach tendencies, they should build with what they have. (maybe it'd work better when the association CPU can change their playbooks, which would mean more plays are needed and I welcome that).

GM

Speaking of team building, GMs. Why do you always assume I'm the GM? If the coach mode is better (i.e. draw up plays for the next timeout, be able to tell the players what they need to do better (sliders, again, would work wonders)) I'd pretend to be the coach by hiring a crappy coach and taking his place. Maybe a My Coach mode, maybe you'd have the option of resurrecting your legendary my player in the form of a coach (great players don't seem to make good coaches, maybe I'm wrong. Although McHale seems to be doing a great job.) Again, I don't really like giving non-basketball suggestion but...wouldn't it be fun? lol

Maybe create-a-legend fans would rather play on association because the CPU always blows up the team in myplayer/create-a-legend (but then again if 2k really read this thread (which would be awesome and I hope they do), they'd fix the thing that's the easiest to fix, which is trade logic. My player would have better trade logic then) and they'd "be" one of the players on the team.

In these cases, the GM's decisions would be important. Bottom-dwellers often make terrible, horrible, hair-pulling trades. Top teams can bounce back from a slump in the long run. The GM's role is paramount. In fact, having a better GM system would make scouts more important to the CPU by removing their omniscience.

I'd fire the Clippers's GM's a$$.

(I'd get rid of their owner as well if I could in real life. It's just sad to see so much talent go to waste.)






I came here to reply to that one comment but ended up spending an hour on this. Wish 2k would care more about association since it would open them up for good ideas for other modes. There are so many things I would've never thought of for other modes in this thread and now I really want them to happen. I'm usually skeptic about giving suggestions to 2k but, right now, I care too much for the game and association.

Keep this thread up and lets all make ourselves a better game.

[jeremym480]

Re: OFFICIAL OFFLINE ASSOCIATION MODE SUPPORT

Awesome thread. I have yet to really delve into association yet this year. I apologize if this isn't the right place to ask, but could someone let know or direct me to a thread with the best info about doing a one-team association?

[iClutch]

Re: OFFICIAL OFFLINE ASSOCIATION MODE SUPPORT

How 'bout we bump this?

[2k10Fonzarelli]

Re: OFFICIAL OFFLINE ASSOCIATION MODE SUPPORT

How 'bout we bump this?

might be better to make a new one. Keep it solely focused on 2k13 without the previous 3 pages?