Time to Have that Talk....

[Padgoi]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

The main problem I'm seeing is that the CPU does not reward you for good defense like 2K11 did. You can play 23 seconds of SOLID defense, but in that 24th second, regardless of how good your defense is or was, some miraculous shot is going up and in that negates the entire point of playing solid defense. This is pretty much the only thing that bothers me. Yeah, the up-and-unders suck, as do the cheesy fake fake fake moves in the post the CPU does, but the lack of being rewarded for solid defense takes the cake with me.

[Meetro]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

I was just up 11 going into the 4th Qtr on the Nets in my Wizards franchise and they scored 40 points in the 4th to beat me by 4 pts. Farmar and Vujacic were coming down hitting pull up 3's in transition, Kris Humphries had 2 put back dunks and Williams weaved through my whole team in 2-3 zone for And 1's..this type of stuff REALLY kills the game. I think 2k just didn't test the game like they should have and knowing EA basketball wouldn't be around they just seen the $$$$$$ and put out whatever...

[Galarius]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

I'm a little confused about this game this year.... Here is what I'm talking about. The computer seems to be unstoppable. I played a game this morning on All Star with simulation sliders and at halftime, it was 75 to 37. The cpu was shooting 65% and had over 20 more points in the paint than I did.

(yeah, I know... "you suck!" "sounds like you need to practice!" "swallow your pride and lower the difficulty" " change the sliders!" blah, blah, blah, blah... did I miss any?)

Now that I got that out of the way.... let me explain... I have visited 2K and spent 3 days with development team each time so I do know 2K fairly well and am friends with the guys who make the game....

I don't like to change the sliders because when you play online, you can't change them and considering the fact that I play a lot online, I want the same experience.

I find that the cpu can score in the paint at will, ALWAYS seems to get a majority of the offensive rebounds, makes some pretty impossible shots, and has a tendency to try to run the score up at all costs with no mercy. (calling a timeout when you score ONE BASKET during their 20 to 2 run)

This all leaves me rather frustrated and ready to make the trip to Gamestop, dust off 2K11 or Live 10 for that matter. There just doesn't seem to be much logic to playing the cpu these days and it is rather heartbreaking. My love affair with 2K is on rocky ground and her and I might be seperating for a few months if we can't solve our problems.

What am I missing? Any advice from the sane, intelligent community members is most appreciated. Please, keep it objective and have some substance to your comments if you don't mind. I'm not looking for trolls, bashers, or childish remarks to plague this thread. It would be nice to have a serious objective discussion involving tips, strategies, and solutions to some of the most common 2K12 issues we have all faced.

By the way, I consider myself to be a gamer who enjoys playing the game as realisically as possible so I'm not really interested in doing anything that takes advantage of the programming or flaws in the AI in any way....

Thanks in advance OS'ers.....

play against VIP profiles and it will be tough, but more fair.....i created several VIP profiles that i use exclusively with acertain team and then when i play against thos eteams i have that VIP control the team.This seems like such a common complaint that i can't believe more people don't play against VIP profiles.

[blues rocker]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

I think 2k just didn't test the game like they should have

yeah...you would think they would've noticed these issues during development...maybe they just ran out of time and had to put it out. or maybe, like all businesses, they got pressured by guys in suits to change their game. who knows.

i'm thinking 2k12 was kind of a "transition" title in the series...it was a year where they were updating a lot of areas of the game but didn't have time to get them all working properly. i guess this is just the reality of a yearly sports game where they are always changing and updating the game...you're going to have bad years where they just didn't get to refine everything within the dev cycle...hopefully by 2k13 they will have ironed out all the issues and the game will be running like 2k11 again.

[Sovartus]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

Thank you to everyone who has joined the discussion and kept it intelligent. Let me start by answering some of the posts that have been made so far.

In my case I find it's better to be upfront. Programmers can't produce gold all the time. My friend knows it, your friends know it. They know it better than anyone. They live it. It's possible a conversation with them could lead to something very positive. Possibly similar to Czar. Or maybe nothing will come of it. I'd almost guarantee they'd like some input though. If my friend programmed 2k and we didn't talk about it, the pink elephant in the room would be more than we could handle.

Trust me, I do give plenty of constructive criticism and offer my share of negatives when it comes to gameplay and other aspects of the game. I'm very passionate about basketball and gaming in general so you can believe that I'm not just there kissing butts and telling everyone they are great. Many of the things I have suggested were fixed while I was standing there. They are very good at what they do.

But, I don't get your reasoning behind not wanting to change the sliders/your way of playing. In my experience the game plays very differently online than it does offline, primarily because most of the people online choose to play somewhat out of control if you're playing randoms. Imo 2K12 is significantly different from 2K11. One thing I found is that I could get away with playing a mostly freestyle game in 2K11; 2K12 seems less forgiving when playing that way. Last year I didn't feel much of a need to practice running plays; this year is the opposite as I've spent a ton of time in practice mode.

I'll say again, you can't change sliders when you play online so I prefer not to have such a different experience when I do. Secondly, I don't play with typical lobby players and have a very select group of players that I play with. We are all sim style players and are a part of a community of mature gamers who don't play that "out of control" non-realistic style. We have been playing together for several years.

But if you're at the point where you think Live 10 is a viable option given all the issues that game had... well, don't know what to say.

NBA Live 10 was a very good game for those who learned to play it. Remember, that was the game that introduced player tendencies and made the players play like their real life counterparts. 2K did mimic this with 82games info. I loved the dribble stick, branching post moves, and many other aspects of the gameplay that are now in 2K. If you didn't play Live 10, don't knock it.

What? It sounds like these guys are cocky and you sound like nothing but a fanboy. If the game has problems, they better be pointed out. Game companies deserve the criticism of their product if they do not reach fans' expectation. Fans feed the game companies not the other way around. As long as the fans don't curse at them personally, respect the fans and their voice.<!-- / message -->

You really don't know me so please don't call me a fanboy. These are the types of comments I asked not to be included in this thread. The 2K developers are far from being cocky so you obviously don't know any of them or what you are talking about in general when it comes to the talent level of the guys who make the game you are playing. The developers listen to intelligent feedback about the game and determine if it is possible to fix in a 9 month development cycle. They are programmers, not wizards.

I also disagree with you in saying that the fans feed the game companies. Without game companies, there would be no fans just an empty demand. Chicken came before the egg. That's why we are still playing College Hoops 2K8.

Why not just play the game on a level that is more suitable for you -- like Pro? Gotta swallow that pride. I learned that the hard way this year... I'm not as good in 2k as I thought I was, well not for this release. I'm getting back to par but its taking a little bit more concentration on my part. The moment you start playing a video game is the moment you start losing.

You obviously didn't read my post.....

Nobody's doing this in this thread. Everyone was having a good discussion before this.

This just makes you look like your derailing the thread with an agenda.

This guy obviously read my post.... He gets it...

I think 2k just didn't test the game like they should have

They have people whose job is to sit around and play 2K and report issues. That's all they do all day..... They tested the game..

Again, thanks to all of you who have answered the thread, I'm enjoying reading all of this. I still haven't seen any tips, strategies, or suggestions in gameplay to stop the cpu. I'm particularly talking to the guys who say they have no issues on All Star or above... I'm intrigued by you people who are so good at the game. What are you doing so differently.... if you are sim.

[loadleft]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

I was PM'ing one of my OS buddies about this issue, I think that these game companies are looking for a way to establish a set of skills that separate gamers so that they can create user on user competition similar to what we see in MW3. I think the visions of an online user base similar to the MW series is just too much to resist and these companies push the devs to sacrifice realism or any other aspect to attain that. I don't think basketball IQ would allow the separation between gamers that stick skills would, and I think team/player ratings would mean a lot more towards determining the winner if realism was stressed in these games, therefore they create challenges that require stick skills to compensate, then even the casual basketball fan w/mad stick skills has just as much a chance to win as someone like Czar. I'm obviously speculating far past anything I have any real knowledge of, and even if I'm correct it's not a bad business model, I just wish it was different.

[loadleft]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

I still haven't seen any tips, strategies, or suggestions in gameplay to stop the cpu. I'm particularly talking to the guys who say they have no issues on All Star or above... I'm intrigued by you people who are so good at the game. What are you doing so differently.... if you are sim.

Sovartus, what changed for me in terms of affecting CPU shot success was realizing that right stick challenge wasn't a timing mechanic like the Y/triangle one. What I do now is keep my hands up whenever the CPU is standing still or in the post. Basically if you use right stick like a shot challenge it doesn't work well but if you keep your hands up before the CPU even shoots and give a little space to allow the close out (unless you're defending the post, in which case stay close) you'll see the CPU shot success go down dramatically. This may be something you already know, so forgive me if this is elementary. What I originally was doing was putting my hands up when I saw the CPU get ready to shoot which often resulted in not even see the hands up animation. The CPU did miss when I did it this way, but not as often as I felt they should. Then I began to focus on making sure I actually saw the animation w/the hands up and I found that as long as my hands were up when the CPU shot, I was within challenge range, and between the rim and the shooter the CPU almost always missed. On the post moves, drives to the paint, up and unders, etc. I make sure I am between the ball and the rim and keep my hands up and now I don't have to worry about falling for the up and under or any other moves, I just focus on being in position. On the perimeter I also noticed that it tips CPU passes when I keep my hands up, so if the CPU is in scoring position my hands are up. If their feet are set my hands are up. This also allows me to relax a little more on D because I can back off, until the CPU is in position to shoot/score then I get a little closer and get my hands up. Hope this helps!

[lilweezy45]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

i know you guys love online but me playing my buddies no slider change on hall of fame default i consistently lock down on D but rebounding and passing really the main issues still but i think thats the better route to take and i beat the computer on hall of fame also.i feel alot of judging the game without a major patch yet is unfair when you guys start comparing with other titles because they had to have patches and updates to make them better.

[moemoe24]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

2K12 is a decent game.
But it could be MUCH better in certain aspects, imo.

So this post is disturbing.
Because it sounds like these 2K developers DO NOT like hearing any 'constructive criticism'.

If so, this is exactly WHY major parts of 2k12 gameplay are broken.

Because 'fans' never critique the final product that hits the shelf.
They just cheer & rave. Blindly.

Leaving it up to anonymous gamers to point out the major flaws that the 2K Developers & Q/A Testers missed... on message boards like this.

Hopefully, the 2K Developers actaully read thru some of these posts and address the issues.
Because your approach won't ever yield any results.

Just saying.

This is exactly why MLb The Show makes a great game. They actually communicate with gamers on this very site and take constructive criticism so they can make the best game possible. The Show guys listen and the game is great....coincidence I think not.

[erickonasis]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

Well i agree with one thing the TC SLIDERS SUCK....


on that note i will say i like the game and have adjusted..and i play on HOF in which the AI is even worse for cheating

[GHOSTFACE03]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

Nobody's doing this in this thread. Everyone was having a good discussion before this.

This just makes you look like your derailing the thread with an agenda.

Agenda? Hardly, it was just a joke, nothing more nothing less. Even the OP joked about how people often respond to threads about people having problems with the game.

I'm happy with the way the discussions in this thread are going actually. No problems here.

One thing i wanted to add, the OP mentions the AI getting all the offensive rebounds, one thing i've noticed often is that players on your team(at least for me anyway) usually don't seem to try for a rebound. I've literally seen replays where as soon as the ball hits the rim, ALL of my guys start turning the other way. I think part of the problems with the AI seeming unstoppable is that sometimes it feels like the AI on your team is set to rookie.

[Sovartus]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

Sovartus, what changed for me in terms of affecting CPU shot success was realizing that right stick challenge wasn't a timing mechanic like the Y/triangle one. What I do now is keep my hands up whenever the CPU is standing still or in the post. Basically if you use right stick like a shot challenge it doesn't work well but if you keep your hands up before the CPU even shoots and give a little space to allow the close out (unless you're defending the post, in which case stay close) you'll see the CPU shot success go down dramatically. This may be something you already know, so forgive me if this is elementary. What I originally was doing was putting my hands up when I saw the CPU get ready to shoot which often resulted in not even see the hands up animation. The CPU did miss when I did it this way, but not as often as I felt they should. Then I began to focus on making sure I actually saw the animation w/the hands up and I found that as long as my hands were up when the CPU shot, I was within challenge range, and between the rim and the shooter the CPU almost always missed. On the post moves, drives to the paint, up and unders, etc. I make sure I am between the ball and the rim and keep my hands up and now I don't have to worry about falling for the up and under or any other moves, I just focus on being in position. On the perimeter I also noticed that it tips CPU passes when I keep my hands up, so if the CPU is in scoring position my hands are up. If their feet are set my hands are up. This also allows me to relax a little more on D because I can back off, until the CPU is in position to shoot/score then I get a little closer and get my hands up. Hope this helps!

Thanks Load... I do use this already and find that RT and Y is the best for contesting jumpers from more distance. My problem with using the RS is I have a tendency to be a little heavy handed and click it causing me to foul, especially when I'm trying to close out. Doesn't seem to matter a lot because the CPU still makes a lot of impossible shots that are rated D+ or lower. The CPU also gets a ton more points in the paint than I do. It appears that a lot come from offensive rebounds and forced layups that go in off of contact. The same shots that I can't seem to ever make.

Rebounding... I have just tried to switch to a big early and box out manually and it seems to help some except vs Blake Griffin and Kevin Love. I guess it's suppose to be that way vs them. Having Zach Randolph's 97 Off Reb doesn't seem to matter a whole lot.

Points in the Paint.... I have learned to play a lot more team defense this year to cut down on the points in the paint. Using the LT to slightly position my defender to the left or right depending on where the majority of my help defense is, is the key. Forcing the ball handler away fro open spaces and toward other defenders makes them take more jumpers but post defense suffers greatly, even on weak bigs. Even perfectly contested hooks, fades, and hop step lay ups still find their way into the basket which can be rather frustrating when you have played an excellent defensive possession.

My points in the paint.... I have learned to use size ups and triple threat to create the proper space for jumpers but even when I get even an average defender to shift left or right a bit, I can't attack the paint without getting my shot blocked or contested heavily. If I'm not performing a hop step flick move, I normally don't score when attacking the basket. This is most frustrating for me as a Memphis Grizzlies fan because they score 55.1% of their points from 15 ft. and in. They also score 35.8 points a game from within 3 ft. of the basket and this isn't the case when I play the CPU. I end up settling for mid range and 3 point jumpers which isn't realistic at all.

[loadleft]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

LOL, yeah I'm a fan of playing w/the Grizzlies too. I don't actually have a favorite team, it's more about liking certain players, in the Grizzlies case, I like Gay and Randolph. At any rate... again, I can relate. I've been having trouble getting through games recently. After a long day I'd like to kick back and have fun playing the game, but I just don't find it fun anymore. I keep quitting mid way through when my tolerance for CPU garbage has ran out, regardless if I am winning or losing.

As for your issue, since you don't have to worry about timing w/the right stick why not push it early and place your thumb kinda under the head of the stick instead of on top. It would be kinda like trying to push against the side of the stick, that would keep you from pressing down on the stick. Also since you can move w/hands up, keep your hands up while guarding the post and move around like that, if you deflect the left stick too far however your hands will drop and you'll never get them back up in time.

Just saying that sounds ridiculous to me. I mean what is this game really about? I've played a lot of basketball in my time, and I've prided myself in playing good D. I've never found the challenge of playing D in real life to be about my momentum taking me out of position from a dead stop, the inability to move when I want, or to do so w/my hands up. This is my problem w/"stick skills" being a basis for success in a sim-based game. They always add a new dimension that's not really part of the sport/game that's being simulated. Frankly I think it, along w/CPU cheating/boosting, is an unimaginative way of creating difficulty in a video game. I always hear others say "...well all sports sims do it..." and my response is aren't you the same people that claim NBA 2K to be the greatest sports game ever? If so, then shouldn't it set the standard not follow the one set by all the others?

I am not trying to down 2K or the devs, because overall it's a really good game. I just don't find it enjoyable because the garbage in it is so overwhelming. I've started an association and I am currently 7-0, but I've played/started that 8th game about 30 times now! I just can't make it through a game full of all the crap anymore so I keep quitting regardless of the score. I am trying to hold on until a patch and its details are announced but I am holding on by a thread.

[Sovartus]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

As for your issue, since you don't have to worry about timing w/the right stick why not push it early and place your thumb kinda under the head of the stick instead of on top. It would be kinda like trying to push against the side of the stick, that would keep you from pressing down on the stick. Also since you can move w/hands up, keep your hands up while guarding the post and move around like that, if you deflect the left stick too far however your hands will drop and you'll never get them back up in time.

This is a very good suggestion. I will try it for sure.

[Whaaaazuuuuup]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

Another tactic the CPU uses alot is the perfect long court pass for the dunk. Once the CPU starts doin his is when I turn the game off because it's an indication that yiure no longer in control and there's nothing you can do about it...