Time to Have that Talk....

[Nodima]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

I just skimmed this thread but I really do hate the point guard fake/up-and-under move. I just started a new Online Association and haven't had a chance to play users yet to see if I like the guys enough to stick with it, but Andre Miller is the main offensive weapon on a team with Dwight Howard because when he drives into the paint his goal is to do that move every time. What's worse is it works pretty often because the CPU defenders will always bite and with them being in position, your PG is by default out of position giving Miller a clean shot at the basket. I had this team playable on my schedule twice so I played and beat them twice, once by ten and once by 15, but it was still really annoying that Andre Miller was A. making this game easy for me by taking Howard out of it and B. abusing that move.

Another thing that sort of ruins fantasy associations is that the CPU doesn't adjust at all for the players on their team, which means regular association could probably be broken by teams like the Mavs drafting a player that's the opposite of Dirk. This team was Portland so it doesn't make much sense anyway but if Dwight got the ball he was usually at least 16 feet away from the basket doing iso moves like he was LaMarcus Aldridge. He even took two threes during the game!

[Kry]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

Just to throw some things out there that are really annoying about 2k12.


1. You can be on a fast break, and the pass doesnt lob over the top...it throws a full court chest pass (anybody that plays basketball, knows that a lead pass is over the top).

2. If youre about to dunk, you can get wiped out totally in mid dunk and no call is made.

3. Shot blocking is absurd when players like Andre Miller, Kurt Hinrich, and Jason Kidd are blocking attempts at the basket (ppl that have less than 100 blocks combined).

4. Shotblocking part 2, when a player is facing one direction and jumps doing a 180 in mid air and blocking a shot that they arent even facing.

5. Just normal dribbling, and ppl dribble off of players that arent even pressuring the ball. Not steal attempt, no crossover moves, just regular dribbling.

6. Alley oop passes are entirely too low, they should remain pretty much lob pass over the top. I can understand the further out you are when throwing the pass, the move linear the pass is. But at the three point line, they should never be low enough that Jason Kidd is able to tip the pass by vertically jumping. People with no vertical are able to jump like Serge Ibaka in this game when it comes to tipping passes >.>

I dont know if Im the only feeling like 2k11 was a better product than this release. Just seems that the realistic value of the game was removed for more of an arcade experience.

[Emanstheman]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

I have made my judgements about the game... And all of this thread pretty much says it all... I will wait for the patch before I decide I am completely through with the game...

[Pared]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

I can't lie - I feel justified a bit reading the overall tone here lately.

I did feel 2k11 was a much more complete game despite the improvements early on. HOWEVER - I need to remind people that 2k11 had similar issues that were deflating. The key difference? Custom sliders for games.

I can't help but feel even a majority of guys here would be ok with how the game plays if they could just use custom settings in online games. Next year...

[On_Wisconsin]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

While I agree with most of the issues mentioned, I think there's also the difficulty in finding a balance and trying to improve from 11'. Gamers by nature always look for an edge or an exploit (not all but some). Look no further than guy that uses LeBron or Kobe at PG for a whole game and just jacks 3's, and spins more than the rinse cycle.

Basketball in video game form is difficult to make perfect to begin with. The ebb and flow of a game is hard to simulate. We always hear the comments that there are always "runs" in the NBA. Which by all accounts is true, the problem lies in the fact that sometimes teams don't make runs they just flat out lose.

So in trying to make the computer vs player competitive some things get lost. I've found that the higher the difficulty the less likely you are to force the computer into a mistake. If we make a mistake on the other hand, be sure the computer will capitalize.

Believe me, I understand how great 11' was, I played over 600 online games. To have a great balance with game flow, being competitive, and trying to improve on previous interations is hard, period. If there was no NBA lockout and all features were available the complaints would be far less though, but that's just my opinion.

[ecworldwide]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

Yeah taking away custom sliders for online was a big mistake.

[Crossover1]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

Yeah taking away custom sliders for online was a big mistake.

Wait, you can't run a custom slider game this year? Thank God I stuck with 2K11.

[iLLosophy]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

I'm sorry but I can no longer give 2k the benefit of the doubt. Like sov I just play online, and the decisions they made with this game are mind boggling. As far as what they did with online, what they released this year has to be up there with ET for the Atari 2600. Unfinished, not well thought out, and unrealistic expectations for one dev cycle - with lots of unfounded hype. If you knew you had to redo everything from scratch then create a separate development team and give them 2 years to knock it out for 2k13. We would've been more than happy with the same status quo in this game if it meant giving us a FULL FEATURED online experience in the next game.

2k executives, just get it through your heads that you cannot complete a polished, functional, software build of a game with this complexity following proper software engineering protocols in 9 MONTHS. Why be notorious for having unfinished products? NBA 2k games are the equivalent of a new restaurant having a grand opening with guys still putting up drywall and installing the circuits. Oh yeah, there is no toilet, but just a hole in the floor that you have to squat over. But the food sure is delicious!



Sov, I know you visited these guys, and I'm sure the majority of them work hard and put a lot of heart in soul into these games. However, (and I don't like to wish anybody unemployment, especially in this type of economy), somewhere in the Visual Studio/2k/Take Two corporation organization chart, somebody is ____ing up and needs to be let loose. My gut tells me probably the majority of people at Visual Concepts would agree.

I guess I should be grateful the NBA allowed more than one company to make games for them.

[younggrease]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

I disagree with a lot of what has been said here. This is my favorite nba game since 2k8. I do see how it can be frustrating(I can't stand the canned runs in the 3rd quarter). But, overall the package is great.

I think what makes this game frustrating to some is that it requires a high level of stick skill on defense as opposed to allowing the cpu to do a lot of the defense for you. On top of that you have to vary your defensive attack and force your opposition away from its strength. But, even when everything is done perfectly they still might make the bucket. Guess what, that is basketball. Great defense isn't always rewarded, players make tough shots.

What I think 2k has done a great job with:

-the post game is fluid and responsive.
-the playcalling system is great. many great plays with good branching.
-defense is actually fun to me at least. I like the challenge.

Things I don't like:

-point guard up and under moves in the paint.
-canned momentum
-online association is broken. that really is disappointing.

Overall, I think the good far outweighs the bad and that this is prob the best 2k game ever.

[scoonie05]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

I'm sorry but I can no longer give 2k the benefit of the doubt. Like sov I just play online, and the decisions they made with this game are mind boggling. As far as what they did with online, what they released this year has to be up there with ET for the Atari 2600. Unfinished, not well thought out, and unrealistic expectations for one dev cycle - with lots of unfounded hype. If you knew you had to redo everything from scratch then create a separate development team and give them 2 years to knock it out for 2k13. We would've been more than happy with the same status quo in this game if it meant giving us a FULL FEATURED online experience in the next game.

2k executives, just get it through your heads that you cannot complete a polished, functional, software build of a game with this complexity following proper software engineering protocols in 9 MONTHS. Why be notorious for having unfinished products? NBA 2k games are the equivalent of a new restaurant having a grand opening with guys still putting up drywall and installing the circuits. Oh yeah, there is no toilet, but just a hole in the floor that you have to squat over. But the food sure is delicious!



Sov, I know you visited these guys, and I'm sure the majority of them work hard and put a lot of heart in soul into these games. However, (and I don't like to wish anybody unemployment, especially in this type of economy), somewhere in the Visual Studio/2k/Take Two corporation organization chart, somebody is ____ing up and needs to be let loose. My gut tells me probably the majority of people at Visual Concepts would agree.

I guess I should be grateful the NBA allowed more than one company to make games for them.

I agree with this post 100% Great points! !

[blues rocker]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

somewhere in the Visual Studio/2k/Take Two corporation organization chart, somebody is ____ing up and needs to be let loose. My gut tells me probably the majority of people at Visual Concepts would agree.

typical corporate America....guys in suits making decisions about things they have no knowledge of. The suits ruin everything they touch.

[darryl.oliver]

What I find most frustrating is when the ball gets loose, my guys NEVER pick the ball up even if it closer to them than the other guy.

Gets me every time, and as a result I lose my mind.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=43.260774,-79.874315

[stillfeelme]

Re: Time to Have that Talk....

What I find most frustrating is when the ball gets loose, my guys NEVER pick the ball up even if it closer to them than the other guy.

Gets me every time, and as a result I lose my mind.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=43.260774,-79.874315

There are certain things scripted to happen and that is one of those things. I hate it too it makes the gameplay feel scripted. The same thing with passes and deflections. They need to put more random things and less scripting in their code and the gameplay will improve tremendously. First is rebounding, second is deflections. When I see a guy hustling out of bounds for a loose ball and he can always hit a teammate for the crazy pass without looking more than two times in the same game then we have a problem here.