NBA 2K12 Roster Update Available Now (12-19-11) - Video of Changes Included

[volstopfan14]

Re: NBA 2K12 Roster Update Available Now (12-19-11) - Video of Changes Included

haven't been on os in a while, so i'm sure this has been covered.....what's the reason why wilson chandler has been removed? thanks

I haven't downloaded this update yet, but i noticed he wasn't there last week

Chandler is under contract in China so 2k is not allowed to keep him in the game. Same for J.R. Smith, Kenyon Martin, and Aaron Brooks.

[SpursnSaintsFTW]

What does Ronnie mean by adding a whole new "CAP" instead of orginal player art???

[fatleg3]

Re: NBA 2K12 Roster Update Available Now (12-19-11) - Video of Changes Coming

Guess that means I wont have Larry Hughes for a while. What does Ronnie mean by you want us to do it right? Is he talking about ratings, the player likeliness, or what?

[draztikrhymez]

Might have to redo myplayer now, but then again my team will probably trade away everyone anyways

[adub88]

Re: NBA 2K12 Roster Update Available Now (12-19-11) - Video of Changes Included

I'm sad to say my KINGS have voided the contract of Chuck Hayes due to a heart issue. I pray that he and Jeff Green. It's good to find this out in thier youth.

[pjt8405]

Re: NBA 2K12 Roster Update Available Now (12-19-11) - Video of Changes Included

Changes needed for Roster Update #7:

Player Transactions as of 12/19/2011:
Philadelphia 76ers:
Lavoy Allen – #50 - 2011 2nd round pick – signed guaranteed deal - Pf/C
Charlotte Bobcats:
Bismack Biyombo - 2011 1st round pick - Officially signed rookie deal 12/19/11
Byron Mullens - Traded from OKC Thunder for 2nd round pick
Milwaukee Bucks:
Darington Hobson – 2010 2nd round pick –2 year deal (1 year guaranteed) - SG/SF
Jon Leuer – 2011 2nd round pick – Guaranteed contract signed 12/15/11 - PF/SF
Cleveland Cavaliers:
Alonzo Gee - Partial one year guaranteed deal
Boston Celtics:
E’Twaun Moore – 2011 2nd round pick – signed 2 year guaranteed deal - SG/PG
Los Angeles Clippers:
Trey Thompkins – 2011 2nd round pick – signed guaranteed deal - PF
Travis Leslie – 2011 2nd round pick – signed guaranteed deal - SG/SF
Willie Warren - Waived - 12/19/11
Memphis Grizzlies:
Josh Selby – 2011 2nd round pick – signed to 2 year guaranteed deal - SG/PG
Jeremy Pargo – Overseas PG signed to 2 year guaranteed deal - PG
Atlanta Hawks:
Jerry Stackhouse – Signed to Camp Deal - guaranteed if on roster opening day - SG/SF
Jannero Pargo - Signed one year deal - 12/19/11
Keith Benson – 2011 2nd round pick – signed to guaranteed deal - PF/C
New Orleans Hornets:l
Dajuan Summers – signed to Camp Deal
Marcus Banks – Waived to Free Agency
Willie Green – Waived to Free Agency
Utah Jazz:
Andrei Kirilenko – Waived
Jamaal Tinsley – Signed Camp Deal with partial Guarantee if on Roster opening day
Sacramento Kings:
Isaiah Thomas – 2011 2nd round pick – signed guaranteed deal - PG/SG
Tyler Honeycutt – 2011 2nd round pick – signed to guaranteed deal - SF/SG
Chuck Hayes - Failed Physical - Contract voided by team
New York Knicks:
Jerome Jordan – 2010 2nd round pick – signed to one year guaranteed deal
Josh Harrellson – 2011 2nd round pick – signed to guaranteed deal
Los Angeles Lakers:
Andrew Goudelock – 2011 2nd round pick – signs guaranteed deal
Darius Morris – 2011 2nd round pick – signs guaranteed deall
Gerald Green - Signed Camp Deal - Guaranteed if on opening day roster
Orlando Magic:
DeAndre Liggins – 2011 2nd round pick – signed guaranteed deal
Dallas Mavericks:
Sean Williams - Signed one year deal (guaranteed) if on opening day roster
Peja Stojakovic - Retired
New Jersey Nets:
Sundiata Gaines – Waive to Free Agency
Indiana Pacers:
Jeff Pendergraph – Signed to 2 year guaranteed deal
Detroit Pistons:
Vernon Macklin - 2011 2nd round pick - signed guaranteed deal
Houston Rockets:
Chandler Parsons - 2011 2nd round pick - signed to Four year (two year) guaranteed deal
Greg Smith - 2011 undrafted - signed partial one year guaranteed contract
San Antonio Spurs:
Antonio Mcdyess - Retired
Minnesota Timberwolves:
Malcolm Lee - 2011 2nd round pick - Signed Guaranteed 3 year deal
Portland Trailblazers:
Chris Johnson – Partial Guaranteed deal if on opening day roster
Golden State Warriors:
Jeremy Tyler – 2011 2nd round pick - Signed guaranteed deal
Charles Jenkins – 2011 2nd round pick – Signed guaranteed deal
Washington Wizards:
Shelvin Mack – 2011 2nd round pick – signed guaranteed deal

Free Agents signed overseas/Retired: Please Remove
Dan Gadzuric - China - Signed one Year Deal - 10/2011
Pops Mensau-Bonsu - Turkey - One Year Deal - 12/2011
Josh Powell - China - One Year Deal - 11/2011
Jamario Moon - NBL - One Year Deal - 10/2011
Mike Harris - Peurto Rico - One Year Deal - 10/2011
Andy Rautins - Europe - One Year Deal - 12/2011
Maurice Ager - Retired - 09/2011
Kyle Weaver - Germany -One Year Deal - 08/2011
Peja Stojakovic - Retired - 12/2011
Antonio McDyess - Retired - 12/201




Rookies staying overseas for 2011-2012 season:
Jonas Valancuinas - Toronto Raptors - Europe
Dontas Montiejunas - Houston Rockets - Europe
Nikola Mirotic - Chicago Bulls - Spain
Bojan Bogdanovic - New Jersey Nets - Europe
Kyle Singler - Detroit Pistons - Spain
Davis Bertans - San Antonio Spurs - Latvia
John Diebler - Portland Trailblazers - Europe
Milan Macvan - Cleveland Cavaliers - Europe
Chukwudiebere Maduabum - Denver Nuggets - Europe
Tanguy Ngombo - Minnesota Timberwolves - Europe
Ater Majok - Los Angeles Lakers - Europe
Adam Hanga - San Antonio Spurs - Europe

Player Position Edits needed:
Andre Igoudala - SF/SG - 76ers
Reggie Williams - SG/SF - Bobcats
Boris Diaw - C/PF - Bobcats
Kyle Korver - SF/SG - Bulls
Christian Eyenga - Cavs - Height Change to 6’7
Samardo Samuels - C/PF - Cavs
Chris Wilcox - C/PF - Celtics
Jeff Green - SF/PF - Contract Voided due to heart condition - Will miss entire 2011/2012 season.
Emeka Okafor - PF/C - Hornets
Jason Smith - C/PF - Hornets
Tyreke Evans - PG/SG - Kings
John Salmons - SF/SG - Kings
Francisco Garcia - SG/SF - Kings
Chuck Hayes - PF/C - Kings - Void Contract - Waive to Free Agency
Amare Stoudemire - PF/C - Height change to 6’11
Brandan Wright - C/PF - Mavericks
Shawne Williams - PF/SF - Nets
Corey Brewer - SF/SG - Nuggets
Paul George - SG/SF - Height change to 6’10 - Pacers
Rodney Stuckey - SG/PG - Pistons
Jordan Hill - C/PF - Rockets
Jared Dudley - SG/SF - Suns
Nolan Smith - PG/SG - Trailblazers

[JaySmooov]

Re: NBA 2K12 Roster Update Available Now (12-19-11) - Video of Changes Included

Well here's a pic of Biyombo apparently signing the contract:



Official report of the signing here.

Also, since Jeff Green's contract is voided, does that mean he'll be put in a reserve/non-dress slot in Association mode? Or is he now a FA in 2K? I don't have 2K right now, and I want to know because I don't want him to be picked up this year when he should sit out. Also, I don't know if you could manually put him as a reserve, and have it transfer to the Assoc. without it changing back.

One more thing: Even if a 2nd round rookie signs a deal, if they get optioned to the D-League, they aren't officially on the NBA team which would mean they wouldn't be added to the game, right? Because if that's the case, most 2nd rounders wouldn't make it in the game unless they're called up as the season progresses.

[mikenoob]

Re: NBA 2K12 Roster Update Available Now (12-19-11) - Video of Changes Included

What does Ronnie mean by adding a whole new "CAP" instead of orginal player art???

I'm sure he was referring to adding players like Hughes and Green by importing their original player arts rather than just simply creating one real quick.

[YoungDee15]

Re: NBA 2K12 Roster Update Available Now (12-19-11) - Video of Changes Included

I guess they are going to make those 'new' players similar to their real life counterparts unlike previous years i remember having ishmael smith in update with generic face ^^

[RedmanR]

Re: NBA 2K12 Roster Update Available Now (12-19-11) - Video of Changes Included

Well here's a pic of Biyombo apparently signing the contract:

http://www.nba.com/bobcats/photos/111219_biyombo_main3.jpg

Official report of the signing here.

One more thing: Even if a 2nd round rookie signs a deal, if they get optioned to the D-League, they aren't officially on the NBA team which would mean they wouldn't be added to the game, right? Because if that's the case, most 2nd rounders wouldn't make it in the game unless they're called up as the season progresses.

Biyombo signed after my comment. As for 2nd rounders not making it in game unless they're called up from the D-League season progresses you are correct.

[bedwardsroy19]

Re: NBA 2K12 Roster Update Available Now (12-19-11) - Video of Changes Included

Changes needed for Roster Update #7:

Player Transactions as of 12/19/2011:
Philadelphia 76ers:
Lavoy Allen – #50 - 2011 2nd round pick – signed guaranteed deal - Pf/C
Charlotte Bobcats:
Bismack Biyombo - 2011 1st round pick - Officially signed rookie deal 12/19/11
Byron Mullens - Traded from OKC Thunder for 2nd round pick
Milwaukee Bucks:
Darington Hobson – 2010 2nd round pick –2 year deal (1 year guaranteed) - SG/SF
Jon Leuer – 2011 2nd round pick – Guaranteed contract signed 12/15/11 - PF/SF
Cleveland Cavaliers:
Alonzo Gee - Partial one year guaranteed deal
Boston Celtics:
E’Twaun Moore – 2011 2nd round pick – signed 2 year guaranteed deal - SG/PG
Los Angeles Clippers:
Trey Thompkins – 2011 2nd round pick – signed guaranteed deal - PF
Travis Leslie – 2011 2nd round pick – signed guaranteed deal - SG/SF
Willie Warren - Waived - 12/19/11
Memphis Grizzlies:
Josh Selby – 2011 2nd round pick – signed to 2 year guaranteed deal - SG/PG
Jeremy Pargo – Overseas PG signed to 2 year guaranteed deal - PG
Atlanta Hawks:
Jerry Stackhouse – Signed to Camp Deal - guaranteed if on roster opening day - SG/SF
Jannero Pargo - Signed one year deal - 12/19/11
Keith Benson – 2011 2nd round pick – signed to guaranteed deal - PF/C
New Orleans Hornets:l
Dajuan Summers – signed to Camp Deal
Marcus Banks – Waived to Free Agency
Willie Green – Waived to Free Agency
Utah Jazz:
Andrei Kirilenko – Waived
Jamaal Tinsley – Signed Camp Deal with partial Guarantee if on Roster opening day
Sacramento Kings:
Isaiah Thomas – 2011 2nd round pick – signed guaranteed deal - PG/SG
Tyler Honeycutt – 2011 2nd round pick – signed to guaranteed deal - SF/SG
Chuck Hayes - Failed Physical - Contract voided by team
New York Knicks:
Jerome Jordan – 2010 2nd round pick – signed to one year guaranteed deal
Josh Harrellson – 2011 2nd round pick – signed to guaranteed deal
Los Angeles Lakers:
Andrew Goudelock – 2011 2nd round pick – signs guaranteed deal
Darius Morris – 2011 2nd round pick – signs guaranteed deall
Gerald Green - Signed Camp Deal - Guaranteed if on opening day roster
Orlando Magic:
DeAndre Liggins – 2011 2nd round pick – signed guaranteed deal
Dallas Mavericks:
Sean Williams - Signed one year deal (guaranteed) if on opening day roster
Peja Stojakovic - Retired
New Jersey Nets:
Sundiata Gaines – Waive to Free Agency
Indiana Pacers:
Jeff Pendergraph – Signed to 2 year guaranteed deal
Detroit Pistons:
Vernon Macklin - 2011 2nd round pick - signed guaranteed deal
Houston Rockets:
Chandler Parsons - 2011 2nd round pick - signed to Four year (two year) guaranteed deal
Greg Smith - 2011 undrafted - signed partial one year guaranteed contract
San Antonio Spurs:
Antonio Mcdyess - Retired
Minnesota Timberwolves:
Malcolm Lee - 2011 2nd round pick - Signed Guaranteed 3 year deal
Portland Trailblazers:
Chris Johnson – Partial Guaranteed deal if on opening day roster
Golden State Warriors:
Jeremy Tyler – 2011 2nd round pick - Signed guaranteed deal
Charles Jenkins – 2011 2nd round pick – Signed guaranteed deal
Washington Wizards:
Shelvin Mack – 2011 2nd round pick – signed guaranteed deal

Free Agents signed overseas/Retired: Please Remove
Dan Gadzuric - China - Signed one Year Deal - 10/2011
Pops Mensau-Bonsu - Turkey - One Year Deal - 12/2011
Josh Powell - China - One Year Deal - 11/2011
Jamario Moon - NBL - One Year Deal - 10/2011
Mike Harris - Peurto Rico - One Year Deal - 10/2011
Andy Rautins - Europe - One Year Deal - 12/2011
Maurice Ager - Retired - 09/2011
Kyle Weaver - Germany -One Year Deal - 08/2011
Peja Stojakovic - Retired - 12/2011
Antonio McDyess - Retired - 12/201




Rookies staying overseas for 2011-2012 season:
Jonas Valancuinas - Toronto Raptors - Europe
Dontas Montiejunas - Houston Rockets - Europe
Nikola Mirotic - Chicago Bulls - Spain
Bojan Bogdanovic - New Jersey Nets - Europe
Kyle Singler - Detroit Pistons - Spain
Davis Bertans - San Antonio Spurs - Latvia
John Diebler - Portland Trailblazers - Europe
Milan Macvan - Cleveland Cavaliers - Europe
Chukwudiebere Maduabum - Denver Nuggets - Europe
Tanguy Ngombo - Minnesota Timberwolves - Europe
Ater Majok - Los Angeles Lakers - Europe
Adam Hanga - San Antonio Spurs - Europe

Player Position Edits needed:
Andre Igoudala - SF/SG - 76ers
Reggie Williams - SG/SF - Bobcats
Boris Diaw - C/PF - Bobcats
Kyle Korver - SF/SG - Bulls
Christian Eyenga - Cavs - Height Change to 6’7
Samardo Samuels - C/PF - Cavs
Chris Wilcox - C/PF - Celtics
Jeff Green - SF/PF - Contract Voided due to heart condition - Will miss entire 2011/2012 season.
Emeka Okafor - PF/C - Hornets
Jason Smith - C/PF - Hornets
Tyreke Evans - PG/SG - Kings
John Salmons - SF/SG - Kings
Francisco Garcia - SG/SF - Kings
Chuck Hayes - PF/C - Kings - Void Contract - Waive to Free Agency
Amare Stoudemire - PF/C - Height change to 6’11
Brandan Wright - C/PF - Mavericks
Shawne Williams - PF/SF - Nets
Corey Brewer - SF/SG - Nuggets
Paul George - SG/SF - Height change to 6’10 - Pacers
Rodney Stuckey - SG/PG - Pistons
Jordan Hill - C/PF - Rockets
Jared Dudley - SG/SF - Suns
Nolan Smith - PG/SG - Trailblazers

I very much appreciate the organization and accuracy of these posts that you make. Awesome job man, I hope Ronnie takes note of these when you send them to him on twitter.

[DarthRambo]

Re: NBA 2K12 Roster Update Available Now (12-19-11) - Video of Changes Included

Pacers traded Brandon Rush for Lou Amundson today...

[pjt8405]

Re: NBA 2K12 Roster Update Available Now (12-19-11) - Video of Changes Included

I very much appreciate the organization and accuracy of these posts that you make. Awesome job man, I hope Ronnie takes note of these when you send them to him on twitter.

Thanks a lot. I take pride in making the rosters as accurate as possible with roster moves,missing players,position edits. I leave the ratings edits to the guys who know the formula's that 2k uses and implements it in to a roster.

I also wanted to make this as a guide for Ronnie2k to use to send to the insider. So far the insider has implemented a bunch of my changes, I just keep positive that he will continue to do so.

[pjt8405]

Re: NBA 2K12 Roster Update Available Now (12-19-11) - Video of Changes Included

here is an edited list of Roster moves needed for the next update. I just sent this to Ronnie2K. Let's hope the changes are implemented fully by the end of the week.

I'll post a new list daily of changes need in each Roster Update Thread after the latest update is live at 5AM eastern time.

Player Transactions as of 12/19/2011:
Philadelphia 76ers:
Lavoy Allen – #50 - 2011 2nd round pick – signed guaranteed deal - Pf/C
Charlotte Bobcats:
Bismack Biyombo - 2011 1st round pick - Officially signed rookie deal 12/19/11
Byron Mullens - Traded from OKC Thunder for 2nd round pick
Milwaukee Bucks:
Darington Hobson – 2010 2nd round pick –2 year deal (1 year guaranteed) - SG/SF
Jon Leuer – 2011 2nd round pick – Guaranteed contract signed 12/15/11 - PF/SF
Cleveland Cavaliers:
Alonzo Gee - Partial one year guaranteed deal
Boston Celtics:
E’Twaun Moore – 2011 2nd round pick – signed 2 year guaranteed deal - SG/PG
Los Angeles Clippers:
Trey Thompkins – 2011 2nd round pick – signed guaranteed deal - PF
Travis Leslie – 2011 2nd round pick – signed guaranteed deal - SG/SF
Willie Warren - Waived - 12/19/11
Memphis Grizzlies:
Josh Selby – 2011 2nd round pick – signed to 2 year guaranteed deal - SG/PG
Jeremy Pargo – Overseas PG signed to 2 year guaranteed deal - PG
Atlanta Hawks:
Jerry Stackhouse – Signed to Camp Deal - guaranteed if on roster opening day - SG/SF
Jannero Pargo - Signed one year deal - 12/19/11
Keith Benson – 2011 2nd round pick – signed to guaranteed deal - PF/C
Magnum Rolle - played last season for Hawks - Guaranteed deal if on opening day roster
New Orleans Hornets:l
Dajuan Summers – signed to Camp Deal
Marcus Banks – Waived to Free Agency
Willie Green – Waived to Free Agency
Utah Jazz:
Andrei Kirilenko – Waived
Jamaal Tinsley – Signed Camp Deal with partial Guarantee if on Roster opening day
Sacramento Kings:
Isaiah Thomas – 2011 2nd round pick – signed guaranteed deal - PG/SG
Tyler Honeycutt – 2011 2nd round pick – signed to guaranteed deal - SF/SG
Chuck Hayes - Failed Physical - Contract voided by team
New York Knicks:
Jerome Jordan – 2010 2nd round pick – signed to one year guaranteed deal
Josh Harrellson – 2011 2nd round pick – signed to guaranteed deal
Los Angeles Lakers:
Andrew Goudelock – 2011 2nd round pick – signs guaranteed deal
Darius Morris – 2011 2nd round pick – signs guaranteed deall
Gerald Green - Signed Camp Deal - Guaranteed if on opening day roster
Orlando Magic:
DeAndre Liggins – 2011 2nd round pick – signed guaranteed deal
Dallas Mavericks:
Sean Williams - Signed one year deal (guaranteed) if on opening day roster
Peja Stojakovic - Retired
Jerome Randle - Signed Camp Deal - Good chance to make opening day roster as replacement for JJ Barea.
New Jersey Nets:
Sundiata Gaines – Waive to Free Agency
Indiana Pacers:
Jeff Pendergraph – Signed to 2 year guaranteed deal
Detroit Pistons:
Vernon Macklin - 2011 2nd round pick - signed guaranteed deal
Houston Rockets:
Chandler Parsons - 2011 2nd round pick - signed to Four year (two year) guaranteed deal
Greg Smith - 2011 undrafted - signed partial one year guaranteed contract
San Antonio Spurs:
Antonio Mcdyess - Retired
Steve Novak - Waived
Minnesota Timberwolves:
Malcolm Lee - 2011 2nd round pick - Signed Guaranteed 3 year deal
Portland Trailblazers:
Chris Johnson – Partial Guaranteed deal if on opening day roster
Golden State Warriors:
Jeremy Tyler – 2011 2nd round pick - Signed guaranteed deal
Charles Jenkins – 2011 2nd round pick – Signed guaranteed deal
Washington Wizards:
Shelvin Mack – 2011 2nd round pick – signed guaranteed deal

Free Agents signed overseas/Retired: Please Remove
Dan Gadzuric - China - Signed one Year Deal - 10/2011
Pops Mensau-Bonsu - Turkey - One Year Deal - 12/2011
Josh Powell - China - One Year Deal - 11/2011
Jamario Moon - NBL - One Year Deal - 10/2011
Mike Harris - Peurto Rico - One Year Deal - 10/2011
Andy Rautins - Europe - One Year Deal - 12/2011
Maurice Ager - Retired - 09/2011
Kyle Weaver - Germany -One Year Deal - 08/2011
Peja Stojakovic - Retired - 12/2011
Antonio McDyess - Retired - 12/201




Rookies staying overseas for 2011-2012 season:
Jonas Valancuinas - Toronto Raptors - Europe
Dontas Montiejunas - Houston Rockets - Europe
Nikola Mirotic - Chicago Bulls - Spain
Bojan Bogdanovic - New Jersey Nets - Europe
Kyle Singler - Detroit Pistons - Spain
Davis Bertans - San Antonio Spurs - Latvia
John Diebler - Portland Trailblazers - Europe
Milan Macvan - Cleveland Cavaliers - Europe
Chukwudiebere Maduabum - Denver Nuggets - Europe
Tanguy Ngombo - Minnesota Timberwolves - Europe
Ater Majok - Los Angeles Lakers - Europe
Adam Hanga - San Antonio Spurs - Europe

Player Position Edits needed:
Andre Igoudala - SF/SG - 76ers
Reggie Williams - SG/SF - Bobcats
Boris Diaw - C/PF - Bobcats
Kyle Korver - SF/SG - Bulls
Christian Eyenga - Cavs - Height Change to 6’7
Samardo Samuels - C/PF - Cavs
Chris Wilcox - C/PF - Celtics
Jeff Green - SF/PF - Contract Voided due to heart condition - Will miss entire 2011/2012 season.
Emeka Okafor - PF/C - Hornets
Jason Smith - C/PF - Hornets
Tyreke Evans - PG/SG - Kings
John Salmons - SF/SG - Kings
Francisco Garcia - SG/SF - Kings
Chuck Hayes - PF/C - Kings - Void Contract - Waive to Free Agency
Amare Stoudemire - PF/C - Height change to 6’11
Brandan Wright - C/PF - Mavericks
Shawne Williams - PF/SF - Nets
Corey Brewer - SF/SG - Nuggets
Paul George - SG/SF - Height change to 6’10 - Pacers
Rodney Stuckey - SG/PG - Pistons
Jordan Hill - C/PF - Rockets
Jared Dudley - SG/SF - Suns
Nolan Smith - PG/SG - Trailblazers

[pjt8405]

Re: NBA 2K12 Roster Update Available Now (12-19-11) - Video of Changes Included

Also here is a list of Assistant Coach changes for Accurate Association Mode:

NBA 2k12 Coaching Changes need for accurate Association mode: 12/15/11

Chicago Bulls:

Ron Adams is lead assistant over Ed Pinckney

Memphis Grizzlies:

Dave Joerger is lead Assistant Coach over Henry Bibby

Sacramento Kings:

Keith Smart is new Assistant Coach as Mario Elie is with New Jersey Nets

Orlando Magic:

Brendan Malone is Lead Assistant Coach over Patrick Ewing

New Jersey Nets:

PJ Carlesimo is new Assistant Coach over Sam Mitchell who has moved on

Toronto Raptors:

Johnny Davis is new Assistant Coach over Alex English who has been let go by Raptors.

Minnesota Timberwolves:

Terry Porter is New Assistant Coach over Bill Laimbeer who was not retained.
Fix Rick Adelman - Black Hands glitch.

Washington Wizards:

Randy Wittman is lead Assistant Coach over Sam Cassell