Top 5 SFs of all time

[rockchisler]

Re: Top 5 SFs of all time

And this is in the wrong thread. Mods can this be put in the basketball forum? Thx

[ewingandoakley]

Re: Top 5 SFs of all time

back when I routed for him, I remember following that 2007 nba finals like crazy, and i think he did something that I find admirable. I think I remember his girlfriend giving birth during one of the finals games and he took a game off to be with his girlfriend. That is always the right thing to do.

[almostbobsaget]

Re: Top 5 SFs of all time

Gah! I forgot about Durant. He'll be top five in the next few years AND he'll have a ring before Lebron.

[jd@os]

Re: Top 5 SFs of all time

...Jordan didn't win his first title until he was 28. LeBron's 27. I guess if LeBron wins a few titles, you can bring this up with your friends.

I wouldn't bring that argument up to anyone with an IQ above a twinkie.

1. Jordan played 3 years in college; Lebron didn't. Lebron should accomplish basketball-related things earlier because of that.

2. Lebron had Jordan--arguably the greatest player of all time--as an influence. Kobe took form Jordan's game, Lebron took from Jordan's game, etc. People say MJ may have taken from Dr. J, Connie Hawkins, Jerry West, but I don't know about that; Jordan was one-of-a-kind. LBJ has a bit of Magic, Pippen, and Jordan in him.

[NFCastle]

Re: Top 5 SFs of all time

People don't realize that there is a big difference betwn being good and being successful.

And durant is a pure scorer. Once he is an all around player you can throw him into the convo

[BuddhaBaller]

Re: Top 5 SFs of all time

I seem to be in the minority but I think LeBron gets a bad wrap on both sides. He's not nearly as good as his lovers will have you believe neither anywhere close to as bad as his haters will have you believe. MVP awards are arbitrary. There's a reason why the greats are measured in championships; you can't argue with those rings.

Jordan didn't win his first title until he was 28. LeBron's 27. I guess if LeBron wins a few titles, you can bring this up with your friends.

That's a slanted statistic because Jordan played 3 years of college ball at UNC (where he hit the game-winning shot in the Title game his freshman year) and MJ never switched teams to join a former champ and 2 current all-stars only to fall short again. That's the thing. MJ never fell short. He won every championship he appeared in. At this point, the comparisons between MJ and Lebron need to stop. Two three-peats, a perfect six for six in championship play, six Finals MVPs, and domination at both ends of the floor...even after taking an 18-month break in the middle of all that to play baseball? C'mon guys, LeBron can't hold a candle to MJ and it's almost insulting to Jordan at this point to continue with the comparisons. Let's not forget Jordan was never scared of the Slam-Dunk Contest.


As for SF's....I'm gonna go with this:

#1. Larry Bird
#2. Scottie Pippen
#3. James Worthy
#4. LeBron James (assuming he eventually gets multiple rings - Dr. J here if not)
#5. Julius Erving/Dominique Wilkins

We all know Michael was good...but if you are trying to say Scottie Pippen is anything but one of the Top 15 greatest players to ever play, you either don't know basketball or don't know Scottie Pippen. There's no argument there. The dude was far better than he's ever gotten credit. If you spent the 90s watching Micheal wherever he was on the court you missed out on easily the next best overall player of that generation.

[Kid FSU]

Re: Top 5 SFs of all time

LeBron is my least favorite player in NBA history... but he is the best SF of all time. Durant and Danny Green will be in the convo one day though.

[REDWING DUKE]

Re: Top 5 SFs of all time

I've read through this entire post and have to put my 2 cents into this conversation because LeBron is my favorite player hands down. People make me laugh with these same arguments I hear all the time so I will dismantle them one by one.


1. The Ring argument- The funniest of them all, and most illogical. First off winning the ultimate team goal does not qualify you as a great player. People say in one breath that he didn't carry the cavs to the finals but in the same breath say that he has never one a ring and that's his fault right. Then you say that he can never be the greatest because jordan and kobe won so many rings. I ask you this then, what do kobe and mj have in common.... Neither has ever on a ring without phil or the triangle. MJ retired when he thought phil was leaving and kobe didnt even make the playoffs once without phil jackson. Then you completely look over the fact that all the players you say are better than him ALL SAY THAT HE IS THE GREATEST TALENT THE NBA HAS EVER SEEN. Do you forget that Scottie says that lebron is better than him already and a greater player than mj , although i wouldnt go that far, and has never taken that back.
P.S. Karl Malone, John Stockon, Charles Barkley, and Elgin Baylor... you know the guy people say are better all don't have rings and the first 3 are in the top 15 greatest of all time.

2. He is not clutch- I'll keep it short and sweet. Yes, i'll be the first to admit that he had one of the worst finals performances i've seen in a while but when you say he is not clutch because of that you really sound stupid. Was he not clutch when he killed my pistons for 45 in the ec finals against one of the best defensive teams of all time and hit multiple game winners in cleveland for the cavs. Was he not clutch when he hit clutch shot after clutch shot in the same playoffs as the finals last year. Also but off topic Albert Pujols is having a horrible year but is he not one of the greatest baseball players of all time because of it ummmm no.

To end all of this how is he not in the top 3 of all time sf. Worthy had Magic, Kareem, Vlade, Pat Riley, Byron Scott, A.C. Green, Kurt Rambis , and other greats. Baylor had west,wilt, and don nelson and didn't win one. Scottie says lebron is better and so does bird. I guess the opinions of people who play and played the game don't matter anymore right

[ewingandoakley]

Re: Top 5 SFs of all time

kobe didnt even make the playoffs once without phil jackson.

what are you talking about? He made the playoffs in 96-97, 97-98, 98-99, and this year with Mike Brown. Know what you are talking about, and the lakers went to the western conference finals in 97-98 and the semifinals in so far the other three times. I know he missed one playoff appearance in 2004-05 but come on, that team was gutted. Shaq went to Miami, Fox retired, Fisher went to Golden State, and who they got to replace shaq was a run down vlade divac.
I am not a Kobe fan, but he is one of the greatest to ever play.

[iTofu]

Re: Top 5 SFs of all time

Jordan didn't win his first title until he was 28. LeBron's 27. I guess if LeBron wins a few titles, you can bring this up with your friends.

I wouldn't bring that argument up to anyone with an IQ above a twinkie.

It wasn't an argument, I just meant his place in basketball history is far from over.

C'mon guys, LeBron can't hold a candle to MJ and it's almost insulting to Jordan at this point to continue with the comparisons.

I never said otherwise, nor would I. I apologize, I should never have mentioned Jordan, it's too inflammatory.

That's the thing. MJ never fell short. He won every championship he appeared in.

He fell short plenty of times, 3 first round exits, 2 second round exits and 2 conference finals exits. I get that he never lost a championship series, but I always find it strange how people think losing in a championship less worthy than not making it to a championship at all. Before I get jumped on, I'm not taking anything away from MJ or anything remotely like that. I just think it's strange how people view it and I hear it so often.

[alecast]

Re: Top 5 SFs of all time

Best PG of all time: Magic Johnson
Best SG of all time: Michael Jordan
Best SF of all time: Larry Bird.

Lebron is a terrific player, an all-star, and would probably be an all-star in the 90`s or in the 80`s. He is a complete player, on offense and defense, but never forget those three above. Their influence in the game is so far greater than what Lebron has brought to the NBA, that saying he is the best SF of all time is almost nonsense.
These kids of today they did not see those three players play back then and because they have seen some highlight videos they think they can measure what they were about. Sorry, kids, you will NEVER be able to have a good idea about the game of those three because you did not experience their game and never will. You are not capable of comparing Lebron`s game to other players you have never seen play.
Bird is the best SF of all time and he would be the best small foward in the NBA today: he`s never needed athletic abilities because his basketball IQ, his passing ability, his shooting touch and his defensive game made him something to behold. The guy was clutch, never let his teamates down, had heart, toughness and dominated their adversaries with his mind games like very, very few. I don`t see all this qualitites in Lebron`s game. Not at all.

[daveberg]

Re: Top 5 SFs of all time

Best PG of all time: Magic Johnson
Best SG of all time: Michael Jordan
Best SF of all time: Larry Bird.

Lebron is a terrific player, an all-star, and would probably be an all-star in the 90`s or in the 80`s. He is a complete player, on offense and defense, but never forget those three above. Their influence in the game is so far greater than what Lebron has brought to the NBA, that saying he is the best SF of all time is almost nonsense.
These kids of today they did not see those three players play back then and because they have seen some highlight videos they think they can measure what they were about. Sorry, kids, you will NEVER be able to have a good idea about the game of those three because you did not experience their game and never will. You are not capable of comparing Lebron`s game with other players you have never seen play.
Bird is the best SF of all time and he would be the best small foward in the NBA today: he`s never needed athletic abilities because his basketball IQ, his passing ability, his shooting touch and his defensive game made him something to behold. The guy was clutch, never let his teamates down, had heart, toughness and dominated their adversaries with his mind games like very, very few. I don`t see all this qualitites in Lebron`s game. Not at all.

The truth right here ^^^

[ewingandoakley]

Re: Top 5 SFs of all time

Here are the most dominant 5 small forwards from my standpoint from the last 4 decades:

80s
1. Bird
2. Erving
3. King (Most dominant offensive scorer of all time, according to bird and wilkins, played average to bad defense, but at least tried, cough *melo* cough).
4. Worthy (If he didn't have all those rings he would be lower)
5. D. Wilkins

90s
1. Pippen
2. Hill
3. Rice
4. D. Wilkins
5. Mullin

00s
1. Lebron (not the best, the most dominant)
2. Anthony
3. McGrady (He would be number 1 if this was for shooting guards, but I decided to throw him in because he played both positions frequently).
4. Pierce
5. J. Johnson

10s
1. Durant
2. Lebron
3. Anthony
4. Pierce
5. ?????? (up for grabs) this list will change in the coming years, like Pierce will retire and before then slow down on his production even more, so likely granger or rudy gay will take on the four and five spots, or even some of these coming rookies, like Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.

[REDWING DUKE]

Re: Top 5 SFs of all time

what are you talking about? He made the playoffs in 96-97, 97-98, 98-99, and this year with Mike Brown. Know what you are talking about, and the lakers went to the western conference finals in 97-98 and the semifinals in so far the other three times. I know he missed one playoff appearance in 2004-05 but come on, that team was gutted. Shaq went to Miami, Fox retired, Fisher went to Golden State, and who they got to replace shaq was a run down vlade divac.
I am not a Kobe fan, but he is one of the greatest to ever play.

Kobe was not an integral part of the team until at least 99 and you say gutted team but I guarantee they were better than the cavs that went to the finals and i still dont see any response to the phil jackson influence or the fact neither won a title without him

[Angel_G]

Re: Top 5 SFs of all time

Current Top 5:
1. LeBron James
2. Carmelo Anthony
3. Paul Pierce
4. Kevin Durant
5. Joe Johnson

in order