Is the NBA 2K Insider a joke?

[Vni]

Re: Is the NBA 2K Insider a joke?

Played another game against the Heat, had nothing wierd happening this time.

[nova91]

Re: Is the NBA 2K Insider a joke?

I play MP and association with 2K rosters and the only time see weirdness is in MP.

[slimm44]

Re: Is the NBA 2K Insider a joke?

Played another game against the Heat, had nothing wierd happening this time.

I play MP and association with 2K rosters and the only time see weirdness is in MP.

Would you guys mind posting stats as well?

[Streaky McFloorburn]

Re: Is the NBA 2K Insider a joke?

Rashidi is the real 2k insider with some pretty good xbox rosters...his twitter is @Real2kinsider

No offense, but Rashidi misses a lot of details. I tried his latest update and...
Kirk Hinrich 95 speed LOL!
Even if that was true coming out of college, per Draft Express or whatever he uses for physical attributes, it sure as heck isn't now.
I know it's lower on default rosters (not to mention every other), so he had to do that on purpose, right?
He's also not very discerning when it comes to adding cyberface/CAP rookies, a lot of jacked up looking guys.
Way too many properly meticulous roster editors out there for him to be running around calling himself the "Real 2K Insider" anymore, though maybe he was great once, I dunno.

[Guard-ian]

Re: Is the NBA 2K Insider a joke?

I pretty much disagree with many of the ratings of that guy auto proclamed "the real insider"' hahaha, what the hell... He has his opinion regarding some players, I have mine, and 2k insider has his, and the insider is not doing such a bad job in my book.

It is impossible to make everyone happy, basketball is an art and so stats never tell you the whole history...

Cheers! ;-)

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Is the NBA 2K Insider a joke?

Again, I think this is exaggerated. Granted when the game first dropped, I did see Amare or another center get caught with the shot clock low and hoist up a 3. Since then -- ehh, not really. I have yet to witness a big man crossing me up -- if he even thinks to do it I'll take his cookies . You can't honestly say you see stuff like this frequently enough for it to be a problem. And I'm NOT saying your stuff is bad but its not as bad as you guys say.

Also, what do you use to 'revamp' your rosters? I know 2k attempts to use a third party (I thought it was 82games) -- I'd just like to know from a known roster maker like yourself. I personally like looking at HoopData.



I'm not saying they don't do anything -- I'm saying most use the Insider's set as a base and tweak from there. All I'm saying is tweaking is a whole lot different than doing everything from scratch meaning it isn't as bad as some make it out to be.

You're misinformed and/or speaking about a topic that you do not have sufficient knowledge to speak about. I'm sure you have played a lot of NBA 2K, but playing and play-testing are two different things. I can't speak for other roster makers, but I've spent more time play-testing 2K12 than most gamers have spent playing it.

Many player tendencies were merely base tendencies from a template or copy/paste jobs with absolutely no basis in data or reality.

Example:

Player A: 60 1 67 37 59 99 55 76 26 8 13 20 51 48 13 69 79 39 97 20 98 97 46 13 1 35 70

Player B: 60 1 67 37 59 99 55 76 26 8 13 20 51 48 13 69 79 39 97 20 98 97 46 13 1 35 70

What are those two lines? The tendencies from Triple Threat all the way to Dunk/Alley-Oop for Travis Leslie and Tony Allen. Are these the exact same person? No. This is one of many examples that can be found where the exact same tendencies are in place for multiple players.

How many PF/C have a Hesitation tendency above 50? 9. That's above 50, which is an EXTREME level for such a tendency for any position and it's given to the players who should use that move the least.

How many PF/C have Isolation tendencies? Every last one of them. Everybody Isolates.

How many PG have Post Drop Step tendencies of exactly 56? 49 point guards with Shaq-like tendencies.

How many PF/C have Isolation Hot Spots in 3PT range? Every last one of them, most with at least 10% of their Isolation spots there. Ben Wallace with a face-up Iso on the 3PT wing, check.

How many players have Potential ratings above 85? 92 players! 92 players with the Potential to play at a near Hall-of-Fame level. Any wonder why so many people complain about everyone turning into a 90+ OVR player in just 2-3 years?

Further more, the tendencies as a whole were based upon a 0-100 scale for EVERY tendency despite that scale not translating into gameplay or simulated stats at all.

As you can see, I haven't even discussed a single RATING/ATTRIBUTE aside from Potential which doesn't have any impact at all on gameplay.

There are countless examples of the above that I could waste time pointing out, but it would truly be a waste of time given the obvious problems in the above examples.

Ratings are childs play. They are mostly values that can be derived from basic, everyday, real-world data and the input mechanism can be automated. I'd expect that portion of ANY sports game to be reasonably accurate if they have licensing from a professional sports league.

It's the rest of the detail that the casual gamer doesn't take the time to see that shows the level of dedication and commitment to excellence. It wasn't there in 2K12. There's no talking around it because the game had one of the worst roster configurations of any sports game that I've ever played.

Will that necessarily remain the same for 2K13? We don't know yet and therefore can't jump to conclusions. HOWEVER if you went to someone's restaurant and bought a sandwich that tasted like toasted booty, then would you expect any different the next time you went into that same restaurant? I sure wouldn't order it again.

[JerzeyReign]

Re: Is the NBA 2K Insider a joke?

Thats cool you typed all that up but that still doesn't change the fact that I don't see centers doing fadeaway 3 pointers regularly like most guys claim. Honestly, have you EVER seen Ben Wallace iso on the 3 point wing? This, to a non purple name like myself, would go along the lines of Madden giving every position a passing accuracy rating, would it not? You are truely wasting time by bring up irrelevant ratings to me. If I put Ben Wallace's isomotion to 0, did I really do anything if I don't see it at 10% or whatever you said? To me, I'm just getting rid of an eye sore.

Give me something else -- all that tech stuff did nothing when it comes to what I see when I play the game. Show me a roster that is COMPLETELY different than the Insider's roster -- maybe you have one?

Edit: And this is a rushed response -- gotta go to my youth team's football practice. You're still logged in here so I'm sure you may be typing a rebuttal so I'll wait before adding something different just in case you quoted this post.

[vtcrb]

Re: Is the NBA 2K Insider a joke?

Thats cool you typed all that up but that still doesn't change the fact that I don't see centers doing fadeaway 3 pointers regularly like most guys claim. Honestly, have you EVER seen Ben Wallace iso on the 3 point wing? This, to a non purple name like myself, would go along the lines of Madden giving every position a passing accuracy rating, would it not? You are truely wasting time by bring up irrelevant ratings to me. If I put Ben Wallace's isomotion to 0, did I really do anything if I don't see it at 10% or whatever you said? To me, I'm just getting rid of an eye sore.

Give me something else -- all that tech stuff did nothing when it comes to what I see when I play the game. Show me a roster that is COMPLETELY different than the Insider's roster -- maybe you have one?

One question, DID the insider change the Playbooks for each team? I think we ALL know the answer. WITHOUT changing the Playbook for EACH team you have a TON of Broken Plays in the Game. If he would have DONE that, then WHY did Vannwolfhawk(Great Friend) get the MAJOR appreciation from the Community and 2k(Invited him to TeamUP). IF you enjoy the 2k Rosters from the Insider then Great, BUT YAK, Myself and Slimm have Edited the game SINCE it came out of the Box. And I GUARANTEE EACH of our Rosters are DIFFERENT from 2k Insider. Go look at EACH of Our Rosters and Look at Attributes, Abilities, Tendencies, Hot Spot, and Coaching Profiles. Then PLAY with them and if you STILL see no difference then this Debate is a MUTE point.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Is the NBA 2K Insider a joke?

Thats cool you typed all that up but that still doesn't change the fact that I don't see centers doing fadeaway 3 pointers regularly like most guys claim. Honestly, have you EVER seen Ben Wallace iso on the 3 point wing? This, to a non purple name like myself, would go along the lines of Madden giving every position a passing accuracy rating, would it not? You are truely wasting time by bring up irrelevant ratings to me. If I put Ben Wallace's isomotion to 0, did I really do anything if I don't see it at 10% or whatever you said? To me, I'm just getting rid of an eye sore.

Give me something else -- all that tech stuff did nothing when it comes to what I see when I play the game. Show me a roster that is COMPLETELY different than the Insider's roster -- maybe you have one?

Edit: And this is a rushed response -- gotta go to my youth team's football practice. You're still logged in here so I'm sure you may be typing a rebuttal so I'll wait before adding something different just in case you quoted this post.

The "tech stuff" that doesn't matter to you is the exact stuff that determines how the game plays. It sounds as if you're numb to the way that 2K12 plays by default. The rosters actually did get better from the release date until the final roster release, but most of the areas that needed to be addressed were not.

If Potential is irrelevant to you, then do you not care about progression in Association or MyPlayer?

If Post Moves are irrelevant to you, then do you not mind getting drop stepped by Isaiah Thomas or Lou Williams in the post? Not only CAN it happen, it DOES happen.

That was a lazy response in my opinion and as someone who spent half a year editing 2K12 alone, I can tell you that the above factors do indeed matter as far as both gameplay and the sim engine are concerned.

If you are satisfied with the way that rosters were done in 2K12, then you have that right. Who am I to tell you that you aren't getting a pleasant experience from the game? Just don't come on here and belittle the fact that the logic behind the roster configuration was simply absent in most cases and that there is no logical explanation for the above examples that I provided. If you don't see the impact, then that is great for you. The countless posts and threads on the forums in the past year lead me to believe that most gamers DID see the impact and were absolutely puzzled as to why the game didn't play as expected.

I have videos of CPU/CPU gameplay and User/CPU gameplay with edited rosters and when I compare it to the gameplay from the release day rosters there's no comparison to be made. It looks like a completely different game. When I compare it to the last official 2K roster released, same story.

Again, ratings alone do not change HOW the game is played by very much at all. They are the lowest step on the editing totem pole. The real meat and potatoes of 2K12 were playbooks, coaching profiles, animation packages, tendencies, hot spots, hot zones, and abilities.

If you want to look at the differences, then shoot me a PM and I'll send you a roster so you can do the comparison. I'm not saying that MY method is the only one that works, but instead I'm saying that the method used by 2K in 2K12 does not work.

[JerzeyReign]

Re: Is the NBA 2K Insider a joke?

One question, DID the insider change the Playbooks for each team? I think we ALL know the answer. WITHOUT changing the Playbook for EACH team you have a TON of Broken Plays in the Game. If he would have DONE that, then WHY did Vannwolfhawk(Great Friend) get the MAJOR appreciation from the Community and 2k(Invited him to TeamUP). IF you enjoy the 2k Rosters from the Insider then Great, BUT YAK, Myself and Slimm have Edited the game SINCE it came out of the Box. And I GUARANTEE EACH of our Rosters are DIFFERENT from 2k Insider. Go look at EACH of Our Rosters and Look at Attributes, Abilities, Tendencies, Hot Spot, and Coaching Profiles. Then PLAY with them and if you STILL see no difference then this Debate is a MUTE point.

I didn't say anything about playbooks -- Vann put in work with those and that job was something that was DONE FROM SCRATCH. If you can honestly say that you did all of your rosters from scratch -- starting from the bare bottom to get what you have, you sir put in work. But if you just tweaked what the insider did, then nah, I don't respect that. I'm not saying any of you do or you don't but no one can say that the Insider is completely garbage if all they did was tweak them. Its like if I go in and tweak a slider set and release them as my own. I didn't put in any work -- I just tweaked them to my liking. Maybe that'll be a better analogy to grasp.

[JerzeyReign]

Re: Is the NBA 2K Insider a joke?

@YouAlreadyKnow -- All I want to see is the tape of your roster started from scratch. Thats all I'm asking....

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Is the NBA 2K Insider a joke?

I didn't say anything about playbooks -- Vann put in work with those and that job was something that was DONE FROM SCRATCH. If you can honestly say that you did all of your rosters from scratch -- starting from the bare bottom to get what you have, you sir put in work. But if you just tweaked what the insider did, then nah, I don't respect that. I'm not saying any of you do or you don't but no one can say that the Insider is completely garbage if all they did was tweak them. Its like if I go in and tweak a slider set and release them as my own. I didn't put in any work -- I just tweaked them to my liking. Maybe that'll be a better analogy to grasp.

Most of the garbage on 2KShare are lightly-edited versions of the Official 2K roster by people who think they "know" ratings better despite using the same subjective analysis. That's not the debate here and OS as a community has a much better grasp on things than to even waste time with such rosters.

The debate is whether the product we're PAYING FOR (Official 2K Game + Rosters) is adequate. I wouldn't say that the official rosters are complete garbage. That doesn't place any meaning or definition to what is wrong. I would say that they are not objective and data-driven, do not have player-specific tendencies, are not scaled to match the 2K game engine, and do not produce realistic simulation statistics for an NBA game.

In the case of NBA 2K12, the rosters alone had a large part in ruining the gaming experience for one of the best sports simulation game engines ever produced. Of course 2K12 had it's own flaws outside of just rosters or sliders, but there were so many problems that were solved by the community without official support from 2K that eyebrows were raised. That's why threads like this exist in the first place. If it were just Kobe's 3PT rating or a player's OVR rating then there would be debate, but I doubt there would be such a loud and unanimous backlash.

[iRepIndiana]

Re: Is the NBA 2K Insider a joke?

Rashidi is the real 2k insider with some pretty good xbox rosters...his twitter is @Real2kinsider

hes also rude, and just tweaks the 2k's insiders rosters...like jersey said hes tweaking not creating his own from scratch by setting everyone at 0 in every attribute. so hes really taking THEIR work and claiming for himself by tweaking.

[vtcrb]

Re: Is the NBA 2K Insider a joke?

I didn't say anything about playbooks -- Vann put in work with those and that job was something that was DONE FROM SCRATCH. If you can honestly say that you did all of your rosters from scratch -- starting from the bare bottom to get what you have, you sir put in work. But if you just tweaked what the insider did, then nah, I don't respect that. I'm not saying any of you do or you don't but no one can say that the Insider is completely garbage if all they did was tweak them. Its like if I go in and tweak a slider set and release them as my own. I didn't put in any work -- I just tweaked them to my liking. Maybe that'll be a better analogy to grasp.

Playbooks are Part of the game which make it work right and to put Broken Plays in the game, just shows the proper time WASNT put into making the Game play right. We all did start from scratch. You HAD to do that in Order for it to work right. I know there are ALOT of guys who Change a couple things and then say they MADE a roster, but that is NOT Yak, Slimm or Myself. We take months to Edit and Test. All of us go about it in a Slightly different Manor, but that is what makes it Great because Everyone plays the game and sees it differently. Not saying we ALL havent debated different things, but in the END, we all AGREE 2k12 was VERY flawed and took Extensive editing to make it play right for US.

[slimm44]

Re: Is the NBA 2K Insider a joke?

@YouAlreadyKnow -- All I want to see is the tape of your roster started from scratch. Thats all I'm asking....

I created this several months ago for other roster editors. I don't have any videos of my rosters but this will go to show how much editing I've done. There is also more that I learned after this document was created that hasn't been added. If 2k uses the same scales for 2k13, I'll add the new info then.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...Ps4LNx_IE/edit