I think it'll be satisfactory for 2k to revert to the old blocking method

[UnbelievablyRAW]

The one where most were set animations. The only thing they needed to do to fix the cases where the player would magically change their shot attempt in order to get blocked (ie you're going up for a dunk and then all of a sudden you begin a finger roll so that the defensive player can initiate a volley ball spike on the ball) is to have a larger number of blocking animations for every type of dunk/layup/floater

They won't happen for every block ( that would be ridiculous and inhibit scoring in the paint severely), the organic method in place now where you have to time the jump right and have your player swipe at the ball will happen most of the time for non-blockers so offensive players aren't having automatic blocks happening every drive to the paint.

Having the blocking be a mix of animations also increases the vale of the eraser and acrobat sig skills. Erasers will have a higher chance of doing animation blocks (as they should, people like Howard and Deandre Jordan should be the type of players that act as a deterrent against teams looking to penetrate a lot) and unlike now (where blocking is nearly non existent) the acrobat sig skill could be used to counter this and we will see it in use more often. You'll see someone like Deandre Jordan go up to block Westbrook or Rose and then the acrobat sig skill will counter the animation block and allow the shot to go up in the paint.

The points in the paint will be cut down by a lot and the use of plays and such will make a comeback and have to actually be used (like in 2k10 and 2k11)

[The 24th Letter]

I definitely agree with this.....

I had a couple yesterday that were pretty frustrating...I should have at least had 5 blocks in this game....

2 were instances where my hand went through the ball and I was whistled for a foul...

2 were because when I press Y, my player took a horrible angle and jumped the opposit direction...(they need to being back ball tracking)

One I got because I came over when the driver was already in a contact animation....

Straight up blocks seem tough to get...

Anyone have any suggestions?

[NickYoungGoat]

Re: I think it'll be satisfactory for 2k to revert to the old blocking method

I remember the days a shot blocker was feared now I have centers like Tyson Chandler getting dunk on by Chris Paul on fast break cause his dunk animation started already

[2_headedmonster]

Re: I think it'll be satisfactory for 2k to revert to the old blocking method

Just went back and watched some block vids from 2k11 on youtube. You dont know what you have until its gone ( minus most of the canned blocks)

[The 24th Letter]

http://youtu.be/hwl09gYUflI

[Goffs]

Re: I think it'll be satisfactory for 2k to revert to the old blocking method

I'm expecting to see a huge insight about how defense matters for 2k14!

I'm still baffled why they went a different route with 2k12's shot blocking when they could have just cleaned up some of the canned block animation from 2k11....

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: I think it'll be satisfactory for 2k to revert to the old blocking method

We just had this thread a week or so ago. http://www.operationsports.com/forum...k-blocked.html

But since its back again, here is my take with blocking. (copied from other thread)

I'm sorry this is such a catch 22 for 2k, if they implemented true blocks at the rim (which is really what everyone is asking for, to include dunks and lays).

They would have to deal with these questions/scenarios, etc.

If allowed, would it be purely timing based or contextual? What would be the rating (blocks) to enable these animations? Height? Strength? Sig Skill? They all have to be involved.

Now once you take into account, Height, Strength, Block Rating, Movement (momentum), Low Post Defense (for stopping drop step dunks in the post), etc, etc...

How do you do it so that bigs and guards can both do this? Once you answer that, here is the next question... Do you give the ability for the USER to trigger this (timing) or should this be a purely contextual situation (right place + defenders ability) or should it be combo of both?

If the USER is allowed to trigger (user skill basically) then you run into the gambit of it happening way more often than it does in real life... and you'll see the complaints of "OMG Andre Miller is blocking everydunk", "OMG I can't dunk with Kobe, every PG is like Mutumbo on the court, 2k fix this ish".

If CONTEXTUAL, you'll get the "it doesn't happen enough", "why can the CPU do this but not me"... etc... etc...

So the real question is, does this happen enough to warrant such a change in game mechanics in the paint to allow this to trigger/happen more often than it does now? (I've seen dunks blocked from behind several times, you first have to lower dunk ability and raise some defensive sliders as well, I know this doesn't count for online ranked mode, but what do you expect from PRO/CASUAL. I have also seen one dunk in 2k13 blocked straight up with the defender in-between the rim and the ball, wish I had saved it as I haven't seen it again since)

@24, here is what I brought up about that video (I posted it too in that older thread):

Spoiler

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hwl09gYUflI?rel=0" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="480"></iframe>


#10, #21 gets sucked into a block animation after beating his man to the rack, only due to #50 having 99 block rating, no matter position, etc.

#8, Noah gets beat with the lead pass, Dwight has a clear lay/dunk that should not be blocked, Noah blocks through the rim.

#7, still in game, seen it several times.

#6, you can still block jumpshots.

#4, still in game, looks great, there is also contact blocks off driving animation layups too.

#3, Seriously should have been a dunk by #32.

#2, still in game, Ibaka does this quite often.

#1, is the only one at the rim and its Vlade Divacs blocking MJ... look at how high Vlade gets... this is what y'all want to bring back? The ability to block anyone with anyone regardless?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now lets actually take a look at what we are talking about.

2k11, canned dunk animations (2 players intertwined by animations) where the outcomes were dunk or block once the animation started. Some obviously like this and some hated this as the windows for blocking the dunk were small and alot of people were too late in the button press which resulted in a canned dunk animation.

2k12, after furious feedback on the canimations, 2k tried to implement a live ball where it was more 'solid' and therefore the ball could be hit by various objects (arms, heads, etc....) while simultaneously creating the first version of the shot generator (blended animations so that canimations wouldn't be canimations anymore). Now people really hated that, as the ball was getting blocked left and right by everything and anything under the rim. This was due to the blending and the live ball physics. The original animation was being altered for the contact and the ball was hitting everything.

2k13, 2k has tweaked the shot generator even more (and actually announced it as new), providing a better blend of animations when contact is made. The problem is that the contact animations don't trigger frequently enough. (Some slider work can help this offline and in OAs, but not ranked mode) With an increase in contact animations you will see that there are blocking animations in the game. Pro/Causal ain't gonna cut it folks.

2k12 Dev Insight

The next big undertaking was the Change Shot code. Frankly, this feature was a mess and hadn’t been touched for several years. This year, the code was completely re-written and I’m proud to say that it’s a feature that’s finally worth talking about. You can now change your shot from any layup or dunk without it looking robotic, and the variation in shot finishes is at least 30 times more than it was last year. Now when you switch hands in mid-air or change from a dunk to a layup, it’s difficult to tell if it’s raw mocap or two animations blending together.

The system can also predict where the ball will release, whereas before it just played an animation blindly which led to a lot of shots going into/behind the backboard. Now you can use the feature with confidence that you’re not putting yourself into a worse shot than the one you started with. In fact, the feature is so strong that we started using it as one of our primary shot collision resolution tools. What does that mean? Well, in the past we relied heavily on two player animations to show contact between a shooter and a defender. Those animations looked nice but they felt horrible. You would get pulled into directions you didn’t want and defenders would get put into block animations without ever hitting a button. Not to mention you’d see the same outcomes over and over again.

For NBA2K12, we create these collisions on the fly using the physics of the two players. So if a shooter takes off and ends up hitting a defender in the air, we send him into the Change Shot system and play a shot that matches the shooter’s in air physics but shows him taking a hit in the process. It feels right, teaches the user not to force shots, and also provides a wide variety of outcomes that can play out when you drive into traffic. A lot of people have said that it’s the most impactful difference between last year and this year in making the user feel more in control on both offense and defense. And I’d probably agree.

Another major improvement is in the transitional blends going into various shots. This was something we attempted to improve last year but we really didn’t get as far as I’d hoped.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/nba-2...50296628427267

So the question is should have the ability to block a dunk whenever we think we should? Is this what we want?

Granted you don't see blocks on 2k often (at the rim dunk blocks) but how often does it really happen in real life? 10-20 a year total? More? 40-50 times? More than that? 100 times? How many dunks per year are there total in the NBA... what is the percentage of total dunks vs blocked dunks?

Why is this all thrown to the side like it doesn't matter? We want this game to be realistic and hold true to the NBA, but yet I see individuals wanting to be able to do highlight type things on every single play every trip down the court on both sides offense and defense.

Its quite obvious that 2k is working on tweaking the shot generator and the blocking to an acceptable balance for both offense and defense.

To y'all who say "bring back 2k11 dunk/block canimations", all I am saying is that in 2011 y'all were saying was "omg, i keep getting sucked into a block by the CPU, omg the CPU is just canimation dunking on everyone omg 2k fix this". So which is it, no canimations or canimations? 2k moved on from canimations after the outcry, hence why we don't have some of those animations back yet. They still have not figured a way of blending them into the shot generator without major suction. That should be pretty obvious.

[The 24th Letter]

Great post JW.

Me personally, i've been consistent with what I wanted since 2k11....I realize there is a catch to both sides of this...I am just willing to live with 2k11's take on paint contact if it provides consistent contact....as I told anther poster in the patch thread, I don't want to block dunks consistently (as it doesnt happen consistently IRL) I just want my body to be felt when I'm impeding someone's progress to the lane...

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: I think it'll be satisfactory for 2k to revert to the old blocking method

Great post JW.

Me personally, i've been consistent with what I wanted since 2k11....I realize there is a catch to both sides of this...I am just willing to live with 2k11's take on paint contact if it provides consistent contact....as I told anther poster in the patch thread, I don't want to block dunks consistently (as it doesnt happen consistently IRL) I just want my body to be felt when I'm impeding someone's progress to the lane...

Agreed, contact is the biggest thing that needs to be addressed.

More collisions are needed for players who are standing still and get bulldozed over. Need to get rid of the slide-away (happening due to lack of animations) and make it so that if not timed right (from either off/def) that some sort of collision takes place.

Have injuries happen due to these collisions. If you play reckless you are more liable to get hurt, 2k add this.

As for Dunk vs Dunk Block, I feel it needs to be both USER timing and Contextual. Now how do you do that?

Well, make it so that if you press block too early/late that it creates a contact/collision/foul animation. Same goes for the dunker, too far out and he will get blocked easier, too late and he would either not get up or lose the ball due to contact.

[threattonature]

Re: I think it'll be satisfactory for 2k to revert to the old blocking method

All I want is for shot blockers to be feared. In real life if you have a dominant shot blocker teams are a lot more hesitant to bring the ball inside and will settle for jump shots. This year there is absolutely no fear of going head up with shot blockers.

The problem last year is that ANYBODY can block anything. You would see PGs routinely blocking centers. The combination of block rating, defensive awareness, and height should be offset by the offensive players driving/finishing ability, height and maybe offensive awareness. That's for the developers to figure out but this current system just doesn't cut it.

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: I think it'll be satisfactory for 2k to revert to the old blocking method

All I want is for shot blockers to be feared. In real life if you have a dominant shot blocker teams are a lot more hesitant to bring the ball inside and will settle for jump shots. This year there is absolutely no fear of going head up with shot blockers.

The problem last year is that ANYBODY can block anything. You would see PGs routinely blocking centers. The combination of block rating, defensive awareness, and height should be offset by the offensive players driving/finishing ability, height and maybe offensive awareness.

That's for the developers to figure out but this current system just doesn't cut it.

Good post, this is what we all really want (1st bolded part).

(2nd bolded part), I am sure that these are already taken into account, if not even more variables.

(3rd) Of course its up to the Devs and hardware limitations, but they do look at customer comments and what they (cust.) are looking at/forward too, etc... Now instead of just saying it doesn't cut it and leaving it at that (not really adding much to the discussion), in what way do you think they should go forward with blocking? USER timing, Contextual or mix of both? Or something different?

[alabamarob]

Re: I think it'll be satisfactory for 2k to revert to the old blocking method

Give me the 2k11 in paint animations all day. I don't even trip off the canamations. Just create about 30 or 40 different blocking/avoiding blocking animations that play out depending on positioning, tendencies, and ratings.

Additionally, I loved the live ball in 2k12. I would like the live ball of 2k12 with the paint animations of 2k11. If they just called fouls on defenders with low shot block ratings then the live ball wouldn't be a problem. 2k has always been horrible with calling fouls, so it made the live ball difficult for the less skilled players. Attempt a block with steve nash against lebron james and a foul should be called.

With that being said. Post patch blocking is much better than it was.

[hewastheirfriend]

Re: I think it'll be satisfactory for 2k to revert to the old blocking method

shot blocking sucks in this game

I can't get a block with serge ibaka to save my life

[zniv]

Re: I think it'll be satisfactory for 2k to revert to the old blocking method

Last year you had PGs racking up blocks on bigs with their elbows, this year its become frustrating to attempt blocking any shots even with an Eraser. Dunks are impossible to block, which I am somewhat OK with - as mentioned it shouldn't happen that often anyway.

They really really need to fix pump fakes getting blocked though - its downright hilarious.

[KillerHog471]

Re: I think it'll be satisfactory for 2k to revert to the old blocking method

It's not all bad even though an improvement is needed. There is this one really awesome block that doesn't happen that often but when it happens its really cool. It mostly happens with pump fakes. When the guy pump fakes and you're guy brings his other hand down to block the actual shot.