True Franchise Players in 2k13

[Optik]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

But Rondo, in my honest opinion, is the best overall point guard in the NBA today. The only one that I would consider being better than him is CP3.

Quit acting like you can change my mind about this, because it simply isn't going to happen.

Can't take you seriously anymore. Seems like you've got Rondo Infatuation Syndrome. No one should even "consider" that CP3 is better than Rondo. CP3 is better than Rondo PERIOD. I'd take Westbrook, Rose and Irving over him too.

[JazzMan]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

Can't take you seriously anymore. Seems like you've got Rondo Infatuation Syndrome. No one should even "consider" that CP3 is better than Rondo. CP3 is better than Rondo PERIOD. I'd take Westbrook, Rose and Irving over him too.

Whatever man, you can't change my opinion and I can't change yours.

[Streaky McFloorburn]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

OVR/age ratio combined with Potential rating is pretty much the most basic way to determine franchise players in a videogame.

We know that Potential ratings are pretty jacked up, but they do determine each player's development, so that's why I let them weigh heaviest in this equation.

By the standard of OVR/age+Potential, the top 10 2k13 players under age 30 are:

1) LeBron James 102.54
2) Kevin Durant 100.96
3) John Wall 100.73
4) Chris Paul 100.48
5) Dwight Howard 99.3
6) Carmelo Anthony 98.21
7) Deron Williams 98.07
8) Derrick Rose 97.83
9) Russell Westbrook 97.75
10) Kyrie Irving 97.4

The next 5 in order are Anthony Davis (97.15), Al Jefferson (97.11), Chris Bosh (96.93), Danny Granger (96.86), and Blake Griffin (96.74)

I compiled a list of all 39 guys under age 30 that rate above 90 using this method, if anyone's interested in other players.

[jaateloauto]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

I compiled a list of all 39 guys under age 30 that rate above 90 using this method, if anyone's interested in other players.

Yeah, post it.

To me pretty much anyone decent can be made a franchise player in this game. It's easy to get attributes up. The most important attributes in this game are floor general, dimer, defensive anchor and lockdown defender though, so my choice of franchise players revolves around point guards, elite defenders and big men with defensive flair.

By just making Pierce and Terry spot up shooters, you take a huge part of their game away, which is being effective at the pick and roll.

Pierce isn't a great pick & roll player at this point in his career. He has been intentionally led away from pick & rolls because he's not as effective. Terry was suffering from not having enough picks set for him though.

Can't take you seriously anymore. Seems like you've got Rondo Infatuation Syndrome. No one should even "consider" that CP3 is better than Rondo. CP3 is better than Rondo PERIOD. I'd take Westbrook, Rose and Irving over him too.

I'd take Westbrook over Rondo too.. and put him at shooting guard. But no doubt CP3 is a lot better than Rondo. Why this has devolved into a real life conversation instead of 2K you should figure out and get back on track.

As for Doc, he's an overrated coach

By the way, calling someone 'overrated' is a clear way to sound like a total fool. There is no such thing as being 'overrated'. You're not the guy whose opinion of something is going to invalidate anyone else (whose opinions you just made up as a strawman) just because you expressed it. If you want to have a legitimate discussion you may say why you think he's not a good coach, but you can't say he's 'overrated' and expect that to have any merit.

[Optik]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

I'd take Westbrook over Rondo too.. and put him at shooting guard. But no doubt CP3 is a lot better than Rondo. Why this has devolved into a real life conversation instead of 2K you should figure out and get back on track.

By doing that you make him undersized for his position, give up his ability to post up smaller guards and take away his unstoppable transition offense. Threads like these inevitably go off track into real life and what I said about Rondo clearly applies to 2K as well.

By the way, calling someone 'overrated' is a clear way to sound like a total fool. There is no such thing as being 'overrated'. You're not the guy whose opinion of something is going to invalidate anyone else (whose opinions you just made up as a strawman) just because you expressed it. If you want to have a legitimate discussion you may say why you think he's not a good coach, but you can't say he's 'overrated' and expect that to have any merit.

Oh shutup. Who the hell are you to dictate what I can and cannot say? Get over yourself, and look up 'strawman' in a dictionary.

[thedoob]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

But Rondo, in my honest opinion, is the best overall point guard in the NBA today. The only one that I would consider being better than him is CP3.

Vehemently disagree. Rondo couldn't carry CP3's jockstrap. Chris Paul is at a level that we haven't seen since Magic. If you think Rondo, or anyone for that matter, is in his class then you don't know enough about basketball. CP3 is essentially setting your argument on fire, then laughing at you for trying.

Chirs Paul comes to play every night. Rondo doesn't. Paul carried a crappy(being nice here) Hornets team to the playoffs by himself two seasons ago. Rondo would have carried that team to the 1st pick in the draft. To say Rondo is even in CP3's class is a disgrace, and you should really evaluate how you watch basketball. Smh

[buickbeast]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

[quote=Optik;2044698705
As for Doc, he's an overrated coach[/quote]
Sorry I know this is off topic, but I have to disagree.
Doc overrated?
The same Doc that brought his team within 48 minutes of going to the Finals last year? The same coach who took his team that was "too old" to a game 7 vs D-Wade, Bosh and LeBron?
Too bad the Thunder couldn't match the Celtics production, losing the Finals in just 5 games isn't something that's good for a franchise.
But you're right... Doc is TOTALLY overrated

[JazzMan]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

Vehemently disagree. Rondo couldn't carry CP3's jockstrap. Chris Paul is at a level that we haven't seen since Magic. If you think Rondo, or anyone for that matter, is in his class then you don't know enough about basketball. CP3 is essentially setting your argument on fire, then laughing at you for trying.

Chirs Paul comes to play every night. Rondo doesn't. Paul carried a crappy(being nice here) Hornets team to the playoffs by himself two seasons ago. Rondo would have carried that team to the 1st pick in the draft. To say Rondo is even in CP3's class is a disgrace, and you should really evaluate how you watch basketball. Smh

Did you really just say that? I don't think anybody will ever be on Magic's level again. The closest guy that I can compare CP3 to is probably Stockton.

Just because I have a different opinion means that I know nothing about basketball?

I'm a fan of Rondo's game. I truly feel that he is the best point guard in the league today. There's not many point guards today that can give you a triple-double on any given night.

I respect your opinion, I just ask that you respect mine.

[thedoob]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

I probably did go too hard on you there. Wait...no I didn't. Chris Paul is a 6'0 point guard who rules, excuse me RULES, the court. We haven't seen a point guard control the game consistently since Magic.

Yes, I'm comparing two players at the same position who are 8 inches in difference and YES they have the same influence on the game. Magic had Kareem and Worthy. Paul has not played with anyone at that level, and please don't say Griffin, he is not in their class(Yet).

I like Rondo in a certain type of offense. I've watched since his Oak Hill days when he was running with J Smooth. He's a great point guard in the right offense, but you can't build a team around him and expect a Conference Finals appearance. (And isn't that what we expect from a franchise player in his prime?)

I would rather build around Kyrie or any other point with a jumper but to each his own. With that said, we all missed out with Rondo getting hurt this year. I mean, how many chances do you have to see a guy pass up a wide open lay-up?

[JazzMan]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

I probably did go too hard on you there. Wait...no I didn't. Chris Paul is a 6'0 point guard who rules, excuse me RULES, the court. We haven't seen a point guard control the game consistently since Magic.

Yes, I'm comparing two players at the same position who are 8 inches in difference and YES they have the same influence on the game. Magic had Kareem and Worthy. Paul has not played with anyone at that level, and please don't say Griffin, he is not in their class(Yet).

I like Rondo in a certain type of offense. I've watched since his Oak Hill days when he was running with J Smooth. He's a great point guard in the right offense, but you can't build a team around him and expect a Conference Finals appearance. (And isn't that what we expect from a franchise player in his prime?)

I would rather build around Kyrie or any other point with a jumper but to each his own. With that said, we all missed out with Rondo getting hurt this year. I mean, how many chances do you have to see a guy pass up a wide open lay-up?

I couldn't help but notice that you said we haven't seen a point guard rule the court consistently since Magic Johnson...

Did you even watch Steve Nash play in Phoenix? He won 2 MVPs for a reason.

Back on topic... Rondo, believe it or not, can be even better if he wasn't in Boston. I'm talking about a 15 assist a night kind of a guy. Boston is a slow-tempo team. Put Rondo in Los Angeles with Blake and Deandre and he'd easily average 15 assists a night.

Speaking of Blake, it offends me that you think I would consider Griffin to even be mentioned in the same breath as Kareem and Worthy.

Again, Rajon Rondo is the best PG in the league. Chris Paul is a very, VERY close 2 for me.

I just can't believe that you shrug Rondo off like this, though. That'd be like saying Blake Griffin is the best power forward in the league today, while saying Kevin Love is only an "OK" player because he's in the right system.

[thedoob]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

I was going to quote you, but it felt dirty regurgitating that garbage.

Steve Nash's 2 MVPs are bullcrap. He led a team built for stats(or S.T.A.T.s) to nothing. To put Nash in CP3s category is misleading at best. While I love Nash's vision, he can't sniff CP3. Once again, put him in Paul's shoes with those Hornet's teams at his peak and he's grabbing 17 and 10 with 0 MVPs. Only reason he got those MVPs is because Kobe got caught in Colorado. I'll save some space and tell you to buy the Book of Basketball by Bill Simmons.

You talked about Boston playing slow tempo and Rondo would be better off in a superior team...put him on a crappy team. Just think about it. Put him with the Magic and he doesn't get 10 assists a game. He's been surrounded by 3 HOF's until this year, and they fell apart when they didn't have Ray anymore. Rondo got to play 4 on 4 for the past 5 years when Ray was on the court. I think that says enough.

You made a decent enough point about Blake.

I can see we will continually disagree about this, but I honestly with everything in me cannot see how you can put Chris Paul and Rondo is the same breath. It's not close, it really isn't.

[Optik]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

Whatever man, you can't change my opinion and I can't change yours.

That is the quintessential cop-out. As for respecting your opinion, should I respect a flat-earther's opinion on the shape of the earth? There comes a time when facts and evidence completely overwhelm biased opinions.

I'm glad thedoob didn't let you get away with it. I had let you off because I saw that the argument was going nowhere.

[Taer]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

That is the quintessential cop-out. As for respecting your opinion, should I respect a flat-earther's opinion on the shape of the earth? There comes a time when facts and evidence completely overwhelm biased opinions.

I'm glad thedoob didn't let you get away with it. I had let you off because I saw that the argument was going nowhere.

Isn't the argument derailing the thread enough?

I hope the discussion can get back to the topic of the OP soon; perhaps it has ran its course, but I do hope it has provided value to gamers who start Associations and MyCareers.

I'd be happy to participate in a discussion on if Rondo is(n't) a true Franchise Player, but I feel it would get moved to the NBA section.

[Streaky McFloorburn]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

Steve Nash's 2 MVPs are bullcrap. He led a team built for stats(or S.T.A.T.s) to nothing. To put Nash in CP3s category is misleading at best. While I love Nash's vision, he can't sniff CP3. Once again, put him in Paul's shoes with those Hornet's teams at his peak and he's grabbing 17 and 10 with 0 MVPs. Only reason he got those MVPs is because Kobe got caught in Colorado. I'll save some space and tell you to buy the Book of Basketball by Bill Simmons.

I'm not really trying to get involved in y'all's barbershop (or more appropriately in this case, barroom) discussion, but you do realize that the Lakers only won 34 (missed the playoffs) and 45 (lost to the Suns in the first round) games in the two seasons that Nash won the MVP, right? For Kobe to win the MVP with team records like that would have been unprecedented and inappropriate, even if he averaged 50 PPG, or had actual YMCA players for teammates.

Bill Simmons conspiracy theories are meant to be taken as humorous. The real reason Nash won 2 MVP's (aside from being perceived as the engine under the hood of the most entertaining and offensively potent team of the 2000's) is because he attracted a new wave of hipsters, intellectuals, women/girls, and assorted casual fans to the NBA.

The one MVP Kobe did win was clearly a lifetime achievement award as well, a "sorry, these belong to LeBron for the likely remainder of your career" kiss-off. Chris Paul was the real MVP that season, by a much larger margin than he has over Rondo at the PG position.

As far as the Rondo/CP3 thing goes...there is absolutely no objective case for Rondo. Where proof is required, unless the debate begins and ends with APG and Rondo is given the lion's share of credit for the Celtics' team success, there is no debate. Every other advanced and conventional stat points to Chris Paul being far better than Rondo throughout their careers, and while I won't disrespect anyone's personal preference, I think the eyeball test bears the numbers out to the vast majority of observers, including those in the Celtics front office, who have shown that they'd be willing to trade Rondo straight-up for other players at his position.

Since this thread is probably perilously close to being closed for becoming a basketball discussion, I'll also say that the gap is at least as large in NBA 2k13 as it is IRL. The proof can be found in my last post. Rondo ranks 20th overall, and 7th at the PG position. Here is the rest of the list.

16) DeMarcus Cousins 96.73
17) Derrick Favors 95.57
18) Ricky Rubio 95.55
19) Andrew Bynum 95.48
20) Rajon Rondo 95.42
21) Evan Turner 94.42
22) Damian Lillard 93.73
23) Kevin Love 93.71
24) Eric Gordon 93.5
25) Tyreke Evans 93.48
26) Stephen Curry 93.46
27) Brook Lopez 93.29
28) Josh Smith 93.22
29) James Harden 92.74
30) Brandon Jennings 92.61
31) Rudy Gay 92.31
32) Andre Iguodala 92.04
33) Jrue Holiday 92
34) Andrew Bogut 91.82
35) Paul George 91.77
36) Al Horford 91.23
37) LaMarcus Aldridge 91.19
38) Monta Ellis 91.07
39) Paul Millsap 90.07

These rankings only apply with 2k's current ratings.

[JazzMan]

Re: True Franchise Players in 2k13

I don't see why you guys are still arguing this. I waved the white flag a long time ago and you wiped your *** with it.

Again, I have my opinion and you have yours. Simple as that. Let's leave it there.