2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

[Optik]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

5.) Make player movement around the screen more fluent and faster. It breaks my heart when I call play AI Triple (Allen Iverson Triple) in which player runs by 3 consecutive screens from one side of the court to the other side, only to see bumping and sliding and changing directions, slow zig-zag movements. Offensive player should be passing screens fast and in straight line.

QFT

This same thing happens on the triple screen for Parker in the Spurs Playbook. He kind of just jogs and bumps around the screens like a pinball machine and gets no separation whatsoever from the defender. This is particularly annoying as it's one of the Spurs' most common and recognisable plays, and they've ran it several times during these playoffs.

IRL, you see Parker sprint past those screens (sometimes he'll misdirect on the first screen if he's been defended too tightly and just come back where he started to take a three), catch the ball and then usually take a hard dribble to his left and take an open mid range shot.

[Serra11]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

Just to add a little contribution to many great posts in this thread.

What should 2k do for 2k14:

1.) Make bigger court. Zone cheese is far less effective if there will be more room and bigger space to cover.

2.) Get rid of "auto cutting" from player in corners. Player should only execute cut if there are not many (or none) defenders in the paint (right now it's random)

3.) Get rid of auto lead pass (i suspect command queeing). How many times you passed to a teammate, who suddenly changed direction or goes from still position into movement? Player should only move, if there is prior movement (like running on fast break) or you manually perform lead pass (trough icon pass).

4.) When executing a play, the play should't break if opponent is switching from man-to-man to zone defense. The play also shouldn't break if opponent is out of defense position (e.g. he is trying to double player with the ball or he's reaching). There are situation when opponent plays better defense if he is constantly out of position + zone defense + double team. In such situations your teammate goes berserk and they are brainlessly running in offense (e.g. cutting to the basket, setting screens on player with the ball...)

5.) Make player movement around the screen more fluent and faster. It breaks my heart when I call play AI Triple (Allen Iverson Triple) in which player runs by 3 consecutive screens from one side of the court to the other side, only to see bumping and sliding and changing directions, slow zig-zag movements. Offensive player should be passing screens fast and in straight line.

6.) Player who set a screen should set a screen on time and on right spot. It's unacceptable to see player setting a screen off time and off space. It ruins some great plays in playbook.

7.) Last thing: make pass faster than player movement.


I hope 2k14 will address these issues (and many other -> Online Association).

8)The main purpose of every NBA player and coach,in defense,is to protect the paint.Especially the bigmen!

In this game the defenders are still too glued to their man,in particular PF and C,and don't react properly to the penetrations and pick and roll.
The help from the weak side,not by just one man,but from the entire defense,or is too weak or in,too many situations,doesn't come at all.

[jayman504]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

I totally agree with this post spacing is soo f'n ******** (pardon my French) I hate the fact that when I beat a CPU defender that I also need to find away to beat my own teammate as well. compound that with the slow and awkward player movement makes for a very frustrating experience!!!

Maybe its just me...I dunno

[DatGD12guage]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

to me the whole zone defense spacing issue pisses me off more than people doing spin layups and up and unders every play. mainly because you literally cannot play an online game without playing a zone. when have you ever seen Ray Allen standing wide open in the corner and get blocked by a PF that was standing in the paint when the pass was thrown to him?

it's such an obvious issue, I don't know how this keeps happening every year.

and too many passes are bobbled in an unrealistic matter no matter how good the pass is or how open the player is. so when u have ppl who play zone even if you do make the right play do to spacing there is always something that gives them and advantage and thats y they do it. not to mention how many deflections they get do to again poor spacing so it really messes up the offensive flow and then u might end up taking a bad rushed shot trying to beat the shot clock. I wouldnt have a problem with zone if the passes were not so slow and gave the d so many advantages and you could beat it due to smart ball movement, BUT for someone to play zone ALL GAME EVERY GAME and win with that shhh at the same dam time, its crazy. Unrealistic

[DatGD12guage]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

Spacing has been an issue for years, but if spacing was properly implemented into the game, things like the close out speed, passing accuracy and the slow catch animations. It wouldn't make a difference imo. Spacing is a pain in the rear, but I think these other issues need to be fixed then worry about the spacing, which can really be covered up by calling plays.

Calling plays, really take the "thinking" away from your cpu controlled teammates, it gives them an assignment for a little while, which is more productive imo than just standing and doing random cuts. I think the cpu is designed for plays to be called, and not really run a reading and react type of offense, the main reason why we never had a true triangle offense in the game. We haven't made it there(sports games) where the cpu can properly read and react and we don't have to rely on set plays.

Things like the close out speed and the terrible catching animations(halfcourt) are the little things that really hold this game back and are completely fixable.
In real life the ball will always be faster than any player, that's why great ball movement can beat great defensive rotations, but not in 2k where the defensive recoveries are so fast, that it covers all the defensive holes. It's unrealistic and disgusting that with ten plus years, they still have to rely on this tactic to help the cpu out.

The Catch animations take way to long, for a shooter to shot basically. The game takes away control so I can't shoot as soon as my player catches it. I know this was long, and spacing does need fixing but 2k has to get rid of these cheap tactics to help cover up their flaws.

then the slow jumpshot animations dont make it no better

[jobenation]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

1) lack of momentum. Defenders are able to change directions unrealistically and jump from non jumping positions to contest shots.

2) the game rarely calls fouls on defenders who fly into and through jumpshooters. If 2k called fouls on the closeouts this alone would cure the rotation and contest problem.

3) cpu defenders react to the button push of the user and rotate before the pass is even made. This head start makes ball rotation very difficult.

Just yes. The fact that the CPU knows the button you press rather than adjusting kills ball movement and penetration and kicking the ball out.

[thedream2k13]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

then the slow jumpshot animations dont make it no better

us must be kidding me. these preset releases are faster than 2k11 and 12

[kmiree16]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

QFT

This same thing happens on the triple screen for Parker in the Spurs Playbook. He kind of just jogs and bumps around the screens like a pinball machine and gets no separation whatsoever from the defender. This is particularly annoying as it's one of the Spurs' most common and recognisable plays, and they've ran it several times during these playoffs.

IRL, you see Parker sprint past those screens (sometimes he'll misdirect on the first screen if he's been defended too tightly and just come back where he started to take a three), catch the ball and then usually take a hard dribble to his left and take an open mid range shot.

This was an issue in 2K12 as well, even with the play you're talking about (SAS Triple Curl). Guys don't actually attempt to run their men off of screens and screeners don't actually try to lay wood on his teammate's defender. Really, the only thing plays like those do is waste time off the clock.

[blues rocker]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

and too many passes are bobbled in an unrealistic matter no matter how good the pass is or how open the player is. so when u have ppl who play zone even if you do make the right play do to spacing there is always something that gives them and advantage and thats y they do it. not to mention how many deflections they get do to again poor spacing so it really messes up the offensive flow and then u might end up taking a bad rushed shot trying to beat the shot clock. I wouldnt have a problem with zone if the passes were not so slow and gave the d so many advantages and you could beat it due to smart ball movement, BUT for someone to play zone ALL GAME EVERY GAME and win with that shhh at the same dam time, its crazy. Unrealistic

yeah, i hate all the bobbled passes in 2k13. in know they're trying to make the game more realistic, but most of the time there isn't much justification for the bobble...often the receiver is open or making an open cut - what should be a simple, accurate pass ends up getting ruined by a bad pass/catch animation. they really need to tone down the bobbled catches in 2k14...especially when the receiver is open and has no reason to bobble it. it's like they're punishing you for trying to make the right play...if i notice a wide open teammate cutting to the hoop, the game should reward me for that awareness by giving me a clean catch animation and thus an easy layup. 2-3 times a game i get layup opportunities ruined by unjustified bobbled catches. there needs to be more logic behind the bobble - like if you are making a bad pass in traffic it should be a bad pass/bobble, but if the guy is open and there's a clean passing angle then it should be a clean catch. right now all the bobbled passes in the paint almost seem like a cheap way of cutting down on layups/dunks.

[DatGD12guage]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

us must be kidding me. these preset releases are faster than 2k11 and 12

You might be right but the speed of a jumpshot is still an issue where as in 2k11 at least the contested jumpshot animations work and initiated alot more to kind of combat it. In 2k13 you even have SLOW PULLUP JUMPSHOTS? You cant even use pullups with Chris Paul. Ppl have to actually learn how to maneuver and ease up on the sticks just to avoid getting that slow as shhhh.

[lockdownD]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

yeah, i hate all the bobbled passes in 2k13. in know they're trying to make the game more realistic, but most of the time there isn't much justification for the bobble...often the receiver is open or making an open cut - what should be a simple, accurate pass ends up getting ruined by a bad pass/catch animation. they really need to tone down the bobbled catches in 2k14...especially when the receiver is open and has no reason to bobble it. it's like they're punishing you for trying to make the right play...if i notice a wide open teammate cutting to the hoop, the game should reward me for that awareness by giving me a clean catch animation and thus an easy layup. 2-3 times a game i get layup opportunities ruined by unjustified bobbled catches. there needs to be more logic behind the bobble - like if you are making a bad pass in traffic it should be a bad pass/bobble, but if the guy is open and there's a clean passing angle then it should be a clean catch. right now all the bobbled passes in the paint almost seem like a cheap way of cutting down on layups/dunks.

I agree. They went overboard with the bobbled catches. It drives me crazy when I pass to someone wide open cutting to the basket and they bobble it almost everytime or do some stupid looking catch animation and then bump into someone and loose the ball. They made the ball too lively on catches when cutting to the basket.

Another thing I can't stand about the passing is how sometimes the receiver of the pass is now sometimes magically slid further away from the basket or slid behind a defender. Its just not realistic at all.

Also receivers of passes stop far too often to catch the ball now instead of just continuing their stride and forward momentum towards the basket.

They touted how the passing was so much better this year, IMHO it has only gotten worse. I still prefer 2k11 pass/catch system. The only nice touch that they added to passing was adding manual bounce passes for those who don't icon pass.

Unfortunetly, the way the game is setup now it almost rewards people more for being selfish ball handlers instead of being team players and risk having to pass the ball around the court with the slow passes and all the bad pass/catch animations.

[born2playball]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

The amount of bobbling of passes to WIDE OPEN receivers is out of control in this game its not even funny. You just gotta shake your head and laugh alot of times at how absurd it is that players can't catch balls cleanly when their wide open standing inside the paint or on cuts.

[TeriyAkin]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

the spacing is so terrible... if the paint is open and you beat your man off the dribble you should be able to attack the basket not run into another guy

[Vni]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

A good example of how randomly the AI decides to cut the second the play break. I run fist dub from the lakers playbook, one high screen and a screen & roll and at the second the play break Andrew Goudelock who's wide open for three and who is a fairly good 3 points shooter runs into the defense.

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BlIPYfppTg0" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

See. You execute a play, you find the open man, you did ok and the AI makes a terrible, unnecessary and unexplainable decision. And this happens many times a game.

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

A good example of how randomly the AI decides to cut the second the play break. I run fist dub from the lakers playbook, one high screen and a screen & roll and at the second the play break Andrew Goudelock who's wide open for three and who is a fairly good 3 points shooter runs into the defense.

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BlIPYfppTg0" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

See. You execute a play, you find the open man, you did ok and the AI makes a terrible, unnecessary and unexplainable decision. And this happens many times a game.

Waited too long to pass, as soon as you hit that 2nd screen @ :04, PP backs up, THAT, is when you should of passed it, PP out of position, open man, 3 ball, draino.

Also notice how right after the 2nd screen happens, you take a step inwards towards the paint and then pass, as soon as you stepped inwards (inside 3 line) then another step, he started cutting. Stay outside of the 3 line and make that pass a sec earlier and that issue will not happen.

CPU teammates react and move off of your LS positioning.