What is wrong with defense?

**thedream2k13** · 07-01-2013, 07:21 PM

Re: What is wrong with defense?

Originally posted by Vni

I might be the only one but I think defense is overpowered in 2K13. At least on HOF sim when I play my friendlist. Scores rarely go above 90, and theses days they even barely reach 80 points.

That's mainly because of stuff like magnetic defense animations, crowding animation, contact animations intense defense, right stick defense, terrible spacing and the lack of shooting foul wich makes the help defense completely overpowered. All that a late help defender has to do is to bump the offensive player as he goes for the layup and if his name isn't Durant, Kobe, Carmelo, Lebron etc it's a miss and rarely if ever a foul is called. Kind of a shame when you play on simulation settings and you barely get 5 ft attempts per games.

Lot of good stuff and legit gripe in this thread though like the lack of contact or the terrible help defensive rotation but I think it's hard to judge how the defense is in the game if you're playing a game mode on casual settings or against a cheesy/buffed AI.

you forgot to added "auto shot contest" which renders all you shot attempts to miss on HOF SIM regardless of who is shooting

**Kaanyr Vhok** · 07-01-2013, 09:00 PM

Re: What is wrong with defense?

Originally posted by ERA

I absolutely hate the contact on this game, when you make contact with a defender or someone makes contact with you, both players just glide in the air despite reacting to the collision. To be honest I bet NBA LIVE '03 has better contact than this game.

This is just silly. 2k13 has more contact than any basketball game Ive seen. It might take slider tweaks and there are holes. Those holes are made obvious because they are the exception. I remember Live 2003. Live 2003 was horrible. 04 and 05 had far better physics. To even compare 2k13 to that game is such a nonsensical analogy that it would invalidate anything else you have to say.

**Kaanyr Vhok** · 07-01-2013, 09:07 PM

Re: What is wrong with defense?

Originally posted by thedream2k13

Shot Selection: The biggest indicator that paint defense is way to easy is looking at peoples player card shot distribution before a quick match. People basically score around 3% in the post while 60% when driving to the basket. Problem easily seen but it seems 2k wants to keep it like this. In 2k11 the % were alot better due to interior defense contact animations and rotations. NBA live 10 didnt have this problem i must say.

I in part disagree here. It seems like 2k13 has better rotations but the closer to the basket the poorer the pass defense which makes driving such a boon more because of the drive and dish than the drive and finish.2k11 still had issues with lead pass defense. 2k13 has issues with guys who camp under the hoop. Those passes are poorly defended. If it wasnt for the improved shot percentages, the drops, and strips this would be a more obvious exploit.

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w

oNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

ontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:EnableOpenTypeKerning/> <w

ontFlipMirrorIndents/> <w:OverrideTableStyleHps/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->

**stillfeelme** · 07-01-2013, 09:49 PM

Re: What is wrong with defense?

Originally posted by alabamarob

I went back and played 2k11 and 2k13 this morning. Outside of the lack of paint contact. 2k11's defense is more realistic mainly because the offensive and defensive animations are slower, and both move at an equal speed.

2k13's offensive animations are unrealistically too fast, and the offensive animations are faster than the defensive animations.

The offense already has a realistic advantage being that you must respond to the offensive player's move as a defender. However, the offensive players animations to jump and finish around the goal are twice as fast as a defensive players in defending them, and this is unrealistic. Even when you time a block or defensive move perfectly the offensive animation will often override or move faster than your defensive animation. Thus, handicapping the defender.

A major example being Put backs on offensive rebounds. The rebounder is able to grab the rebound and instantly jump back up for a dunk or a layup the millisecond they touch the ground. Leaving the defender no time to react. Does not matter who the player is or what direction they are facing.

If 2k14 has a live ball, increase paint contact, slow down the scoring animations, speed up the defensive animations, and properly balance the speed of a defensive animation and an offensive animation then the game will be a classic.

I played 2K11 recently and must admit after they patched the game it played a really sim game. The sim sliders actually meant something. If you take a Westbrook and try to force it in the lane and tried to dunk it had some of the nicest contact layups that you would miss. You could actually protect the paint and use the mid range game very realistic. The game was balanced offense to defense like you said.

**jersez** · 07-02-2013, 01:33 PM

Re: What is wrong with defense?

Another major issue I have is shot blockers deciding to take a charge. I'd rather my big man foul the shooter than try to get a charge call, but I don't know if their trying to draw a charge or the poor physics in the game, which lets the offensive player knock you over even if it's a smaller player.

**Rockie_Fresh88** · 07-02-2013, 01:38 PM

Re: What is wrong with defense?

Originally posted by Vni

Oh yeah what you posted does indeed happen on HOF Sim.

The defense isn't legit but it's also overpowered to me. At least from my experience in hum v hum.

Raising the shooting foul slider would help balancing it. I seriously have no idea why they don't do it since most people either play offline and they can adjust sliders or play quick ranked where it's probably not even on simulation, myteam where it's just a cheese fest and my career where everyone complains about the lack of fouls.

Fouls are part of the game 2K.

Yeah playing against the CPU those happen. I think the thread is more about the user stand point/control though

**thedream2k13** · 07-02-2013, 11:47 PM

Re: What is wrong with defense?

i would also like to add, ballhandlers get to much freedom to run around in halfcourt offense unless you are magnetically attached to them. I can run a guard around in the paint crossover stop and a big man wont even step in to stop me. I played a game where all my opponent did was take cp3 into the paint and make hookshots. Omer Asik just stood next to jordan not giving a damn. Its bad enough that it was so easy to get into the paint but hookshots by cp3 is a slap in the face considering they all go in.

Also, the transition animations from dribbling to shooting are missing in 2k13. guards and forwards can go from dribbling behind the back 3 times to taking a perfect release jumper in under a second. 2k8 had these transitions correct and gave defense time to react to the offense.

**thedream2k13** · 07-07-2013, 12:55 AM

Re: What is wrong with defense?

can not let this thread die

**jersez** · 07-08-2013, 02:51 PM

Re: What is wrong with defense?

Originally posted by thedream2k13

can not let this thread die

Man my fault, I've been working on the videos below.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/1Z4UU2FB8ME" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Spoiler

**Optik** · 07-08-2013, 05:15 PM

Re: What is wrong with defense?

Jersez, the first video is the result of taking out that two player animation where the defender rode out the ball-handler to the side. Now we just have that Mario running animation , which has been there since at least 2K11 and is an absolute abomination but in 2K11 and 12 defenders weren't literally been knocked back by it.

It's pretty apparent after all these years of 2K, that the ends are more important to the means. I don't care how they get to the end, they could do it by hook or crook for all I care, it just needs to reward simulation basketball and have the right incentives/disincentives. If that means bringing back the truly hideous blocking animations from 2K11, so be it. Quick fixes, like the animation that happens when a defender slides a ball-handler out of bounds, need to implemented more. The spinning into the middle of the defender causing the ball-handler to lose the ball was a great idea as well. The effect that the RS can have on pick and roll defense was a good idea as well. Band aids are great, as long as we're rewarded for playing the right way.

EDIT: Regarding the second video, LOL, I took a replay of when I was playing the Heat with the Lakers (which I can't upload as I have no DVR or camera) where Kobe tried to block a Mario Chalmers dunk from the side. While in mid-air, Chalmers literally CLEARS/stiff arms Kobe (in a "get awf me fool!" kinda way) to the side with his left arm and completes the dunk with his right. One of the most hilarious things I've ever seen in 2K.

**jersez** · 07-08-2013, 07:12 PM

Re: What is wrong with defense?

Originally posted by Optik

Jersez, the first video is the result of taking out that two player animation where the defender rode out the ball-handler to the side. Now we just have that Mario running animation , which has been there since at least 2K11 and is an absolute abomination but in 2K11 and 12 defenders weren't literally been knocked back by it.

It's pretty apparent after all these years of 2K, that the ends are more important to the means. I don't care how they get to the end, they could do it by hook or crook for all I care, it just needs to reward simulation basketball and have the right incentives/disincentives. If that means bringing back the truly hideous blocking animations from 2K11, so be it. Quick fixes, like the animation that happens when a defender slides a ball-handler out of bounds, need to implemented more. The spinning into the middle of the defender causing the ball-handler to lose the ball was a great idea as well. The effect that the RS can have on pick and roll defense was a good idea as well. Band aids are great, as long as we're rewarded for playing the right way.

EDIT: Regarding the second video, LOL, I took a replay of when I was playing the Heat with the Lakers (which I can't upload as I have no DVR or camera) where Kobe tried to block a Mario Chalmers dunk from the side. While in mid-air, Chalmers literally CLEARS/stiff arms Kobe (in a "get awf me fool!" kinda way) to the side with his left arm and completes the dunk with his right. One of the most hilarious things I've ever seen in 2K.

LMAO @ the chalmer's play. I completely agree man, Here is a clear example of what we're talking about 2k if this isn't fixed in 2k14. Then I'm just going to give up on giving my feedback on 2k's product.

We all just want realistic basketball and realistic results, in terms of situations and plays, like the cpu shouldn't get a speed boost to close out, why punish me for playing basketball and using ball movement to get a open shot? Why punish me by forcing the player I'm controlling to stand still, so the cpu can shoot a open jumper? I'm tired of it man.

**TeriyAkin** · 07-10-2013, 10:12 PM

Re: What is wrong with defense?

Transition defense for the user is so awful, your players jog even when your'e sprinting. Sprinting in general is spotty, sometimes you'll sprint to get back in position while the offensive player is slowly dribbling and you still cant get infront of him.

On fastbreaks user defenders have absolutely no awareness. For example on a 2v2 both defenders will commit to one guy but they never fully commit leaving the ballhander open and the other player open as well

When the user does picks the cpu sometimes runs into the pick and then through before you can even move (very frustrating) while the cpu picks are too effective and even when you don't run into them you get caught in the pick animation... Pick defenders are super terrible as they just stand wherever the guy who just got picked was instead of guarding the opposite side

When defending on-ball and off-ball most of the contact is caused by the cpu bumping your player out of the way making everything harder than it should be... not to mention when you go to contest a shot only to have your defender go the opposite way.

A lot of time when you are about to contest a should your player will just slide out of the way (especially when trying to defend along the baseline) other times your defender will not be able to move like he's stuck in quick sand (allowing or wide open shots for the cpu, but when you have wide open shots they cpu jumps 20 feet and blocks it out of your hands smh)

Also user defenders will switch men (even after selecting no switch) and even when no screens were done... It's very disappointing to score on one end only to have your PG guard their PF/C in the post on the very next possession for no reason

Defense definitely needs improvement and a wider variety of sliders to tone down/tune a lot of things

**OkayC** · 07-10-2013, 11:44 PM

Re: What is wrong with defense?

My problems with defense are:

Your teammates are unrealiable, they constantly take there eyes off the person there guarding just to have there opponent make a back door cut, for a lay in.

Another problem is on the fast break too many guys dunk like its the dunk contest, and make the dunk even when your in front of them. When I get in front of the guy about to dunk and I jump to block it he should have to alter his shot or something to avoid missing the dunk unless hes jordan, james, or griffin. Too many times ill get in front of guys like kevin martin or austin rivers to block there dunk, yet theyll make the dunk, and there not even good dunkers. Why on earth are dudes like martin dunking like there vince carter or something with a body in there way.

another problem Is as stated by the op deny ball D is a joke and inneffective at best.

Also as stated before im tired of defending a guy trying to attack the paint, then i get bumped by a teamate or something and get knocked out of position, and then the guy im defending gets the layup.

Also stop lowering my teamate grade when i leave my man to go cover someone elses man. Let me explain, i at times have had to go cover another guys man because my teammate will unexplicably leave his man. And usually the man my teammate leaves is a risk of dropping a three while the guy im defending isn't as likely to.

One major problem with defense is in the paint defense, you can't just rise over people in the paint to get a layup or dunk, splitter did that during the finals and got blocked for days, so why the heck should the computer get to do it with no consequence whatsoever.

Lastly the computer has eyes on the back of its head and picks off passes that it shouldn't have even known were being made, rrrrrrrrggggh this is so annoying especially in mycareer where your teamates are already too incompetent as is.

The reason why 2k is so annoying is because theres such a large emphasis on offense in this game, and the game has basically become a who can outscore who, thats why using teams like the pacers and grizzlies sucks, because they don't have alot of offensive weapons, based on the fact that there defensive teams. Defense gets no attention in this game, and its hard enough to defend your own matchup, but to trust your teammates to do it, is a joke, thats a big problem why mycareer is such a major fail at times.

But my biggest pet peeve in the game of all time, is the fact that when your defending someone, theyll sometimes gain this burst of superspeed to outrun you and get a layup. Why on Gods green earth does that happen. Then the game has the nerve to wanna lower your teammate grade for it. Ill buy this game when you can actually play defense!

**25bdizz** · 07-12-2013, 08:59 PM

Re: What is wrong with defense?

2k has been clearly favoring offense for awhile now. They need to bring back lock on D, and i think a simple system to call for help is needed as well. Another thing that has always bothered me but never seems to be talked about is off ball defense. Can't they just let us keep a hand on a guy just to keep him honest? It's impossible to keep a player from getting to the spot he wants to get to off ball. I know you get that animation where you crash into him, but thats not enough

**25bdizz** · 07-12-2013, 09:01 PM

Re: What is wrong with defense?

oh man when you bump into your own teammate and it throws you off...rage inducing. I dont remember this ever being in 2k until this year

What is wrong with defense?

Recommended Videos

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment