NBA 2K14 Euroleague Q&A

[BreaksoftheGame]

Wow. Awful contrite answers.

[OkayC]

Re: NBA 2K14 Euroleague Q&A

1) Generated rookies have been way overpowered since 2k3. The main point of the whole mode is to play more than one season. If you do this, the league will turn into 99 OVR teams all over the place because of screwed up potential logic and way overpowered rookie classes.

It's common to see multiple rookies rated >80 OVR already, with 5-10 more guys >70. Basically, most draft classes are already better than a few NBA teams combined. Which is ridiculous.
This leads to vastly overpowered teams after a few years in combination with a very bad player regression model that doesn't take into account decline of athleticism at all, leading to uber athletic 36 year olds dominating the league.
Also, too much talent in the league means free agency crowded with high rated players no team can afford.
Basially, you need 0-5 players rated >70 OVR each year to maintain a league roughly as strong as the current NBA. Would be easy to fix, but 2k doesn't care. This has been a problem since 2k3.

2) Attribute/Tendency distribution for generated rookies is a joke. 2k uses very lazy approaches of tying values to play styles regardless of whether they make sense for a particular player.
You'll regularly see big men with low 3pt ratings jacking up lots of 3s (screwing up simulated stats btw), because their play style is set to "defensive", which is tied to a high 3pt tendency for no reason. The same with play types, so you'll see 7'2 centers having "cutter" as their main play because the play style scripts dictate it with no reason behind it.

3) Touches distribution for rookies is just as bad. There's simply no thought out scaling involved, comparing player skills to their touches ratings shows no coherent logic whatsoever. Now this isn't a big deal since touches is flawed anyway. But in the improbable case that 2k actually fixes play calling, association gameplay would still be a mess, because generated players make no sense at all.

4) 2k uses different AI management scripts for user controlled teams set to auto manage and AI controlled teams. If you want to control all teams to fix rotations on the fly, you either have to do every micro management decision for each team, or use the flawed auto manage logic, which is inferior to the one used for AI controlled teams, especially regarding free agent signings. That's just lazy.

5) Playcalling is messed up. Generated/Traded PGs don't get any plays called for them except you completely redo touches scaling using some very extreme differences between positions. Makes AI controlled teams with superstar PGs pretty much useless. You'll see plays for them only out of scripted mismatch quick plays or broken down High/Low sets ending with a pick. Again, just lazy. Has been that way since 2k11, at least on PC. Don't know about consoles though...

I could go on, but in the end it's all subjective. If you like association mode, that's cool. For me, it's pretty much unplayable right now. Maybe that's all just nitpicking to you. In my opinion, these issues are defeating the purpose of the whole association mode. And it's no rocket science either. Takes one hour max to figure this stuff out...

Some of this stuff i was unaware of. other things you mentioned is why i don't play association anymore, and when i did it was short lived. I feel its on the right track with alot of ideas, but this mode is something thats geared toward people with high knowledge of the sport of basketball, and since 2k clearly doesn't cater to those people, the mode feels to ameteurish to me.

[Melbournelad]

Re: NBA 2K14 Euroleague Q&A

What are the core problems with association? I haven't noticed any glaring bugs.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Really? Really? Wow.

[Melbournelad]

Re: NBA 2K14 Euroleague Q&A

1) Generated rookies have been way overpowered since 2k3. The main point of the whole mode is to play more than one season. If you do this, the league will turn into 99 OVR teams all over the place because of screwed up potential logic and way overpowered rookie classes.

It's common to see multiple rookies rated >80 OVR already, with 5-10 more guys >70. Basically, most draft classes are already better than a few NBA teams combined. Which is ridiculous.
This leads to vastly overpowered teams after a few years in combination with a very bad player regression model that doesn't take into account decline of athleticism at all, leading to uber athletic 36 year olds dominating the league.
Also, too much talent in the league means free agency crowded with high rated players no team can afford.
Basially, you need 0-5 players rated >70 OVR each year to maintain a league roughly as strong as the current NBA. Would be easy to fix, but 2k doesn't care. This has been a problem since 2k3.

2) Attribute/Tendency distribution for generated rookies is a joke. 2k uses very lazy approaches of tying values to play styles regardless of whether they make sense for a particular player.
You'll regularly see big men with low 3pt ratings jacking up lots of 3s (screwing up simulated stats btw), because their play style is set to "defensive", which is tied to a high 3pt tendency for no reason. The same with play types, so you'll see 7'2 centers having "cutter" as their main play because the play style scripts dictate it with no reason behind it.

3) Touches distribution for rookies is just as bad. There's simply no thought out scaling involved, comparing player skills to their touches ratings shows no coherent logic whatsoever. Now this isn't a big deal since touches is flawed anyway. But in the improbable case that 2k actually fixes play calling, association gameplay would still be a mess, because generated players make no sense at all.

4) 2k uses different AI management scripts for user controlled teams set to auto manage and AI controlled teams. If you want to control all teams to fix rotations on the fly, you either have to do every micro management decision for each team, or use the flawed auto manage logic, which is inferior to the one used for AI controlled teams, especially regarding free agent signings. That's just lazy.

5) Playcalling is messed up. Generated/Traded PGs don't get any plays called for them except you completely redo touches scaling using some very extreme differences between positions. Makes AI controlled teams with superstar PGs pretty much useless. You'll see plays for them only out of scripted mismatch quick plays or broken down High/Low sets ending with a pick. Again, just lazy. Has been that way since 2k11, at least on PC. Don't know about consoles though...

I could go on, but in the end it's all subjective. If you like association mode, that's cool. For me, it's pretty much unplayable right now. Maybe that's all just nitpicking to you. In my opinion, these issues are defeating the purpose of the whole association mode. And it's no rocket science either. Takes one hour max to figure this stuff out...

To add one more, the rigid potential system really needs to be changed, every association should be dynamic.

[mango_prom]

Re: NBA 2K14 Euroleague Q&A

To add one more, the rigid potential system really needs to be changed, every association should be dynamic.

Yeah, Sega shows how to do it with the FM series. The Eastside Hockey games were great in that regard, too. And since you've mentioned more dynamic associations...another thing I've noticed is that it seems like generated player variety has decreased over the years.
I remember that 2k11 had more different types of players available. Some guards were pure shooters without much dunking ability, others could slash but were useless on the perimeter. In 2k13, it's all the same. Good guards have dunking/layup at least >85 in the beginning and become rated around 90 in every shooting category later on. And since sig skills are awarded when reaching fixed rating cutoffs, you'll see dozens of completely overpowered all around GOAT candidates for no reason. Just a very generic experience.

And potential is a good topic to bring up...I haven't played PES for a few years, but they had different types of developing presets with a few different timespans of players hitting their primes and so on. You know, stuff like players making huge jumps for a few years, then maybe regressing quickly while others improve rather slowly before making a surprising leap later on. Would be great to have that kind of model incorporated into 2k14 if there's still some time left after including Lebron's hand picked soundtrack suggestions...

Other things are mainly aesthetics, but give the impression of devs not giving a f*ck. Do all talented perimeter prospects need to have the Air Jordan package? Teams will sometimes have half a dozen players finishing like MJ with default rookie classes, quite often some white 6'0 PGs.
The same is true for jumpshot animations.
Would it be that hard to limit unathletic big men to getting assigned random set shots mainly? Maybe depending on shot ability and vertical? Right now, you'll see 7'2 centers having hangtime jumpshots like Dominique or Nate Robinson. Some 5'9 PGs on the other hand will jack up 3s with some useless Kevin Duckworth set shot...
Also, besides the generic all around megastar prospects, solid role players excelling at a few skills are pretty much non existent. Not much variety at all.

Association could be a great mode. But they should finally start to work on easy to fix issues which could go a long way improving the whole experience in a big way. If Sega can do it with some dry text based soccer manager, 2k with a multi million dollar budget and more than a decade of experience with assoc can't?

[vtcrb]

Re: NBA 2K14 Euroleague Q&A

Who said the same teams are working on those respective features? Don't assume that's always the case.

And we've had some great meetings with the NBA2KInsider regarding rosters.

Glad SOMEONE found him to talk. He is a tough man to get in touch with.

[JBCAROLINAKID]

Re: NBA 2K14 Euroleague Q&A

Would be nice if 2k put their efforts into getting the modes and features in the game already to work correctly instead of spending time every year integrating some flashy new feature that will be broken from the get-go. I love what 2k has done with classic teams and now euroleague but they should make sure all these things work as intended or they are basically useless.

[Shade8780]

Re: NBA 2K14 Euroleague Q&A

And we've had some great meetings with the NBA2KInsider regarding rosters.

What's next?

"We've finally convinced 2K Insider to actually watch some basketball this year. Gonna be a great year!"

[Vni]

Re: NBA 2K14 Euroleague Q&A

Talking to the insider? Lol just fire him. This guy if he exists wich he probably doesn't has been stealing so much money. There is absolutely nothing he does better than any other human beeing on the planet.

It's just gonna be the same thing. It's some marketing talk right there, we have this every year. Sorry Chris.

There shoudn't even be a guy at this spot. It's a perfect job for a bot. Just put stats in and it trnaltes into ratings. That's all you need. No more biased ratings. Let real life stats do the talking.

[vtcrb]

Re: NBA 2K14 Euroleague Q&A

What's next?

"We've finally convinced 2K Insider to actually watch some basketball this year. Gonna be a great year!"

How About THIS, "We get someone who KNOWs and CARES about Basketball?". I KNOW that is a CRAZY concept. Who is doing the EUROLEAGUE Ratings and Tendencies? I mean if you cant get the NBA right, HOW you gonna get 14 teams from a DIFFERENT League. That would TAKE Time and RESEARCH.

[Matty Aqua]

Re: NBA 2K14 Euroleague Q&A

Who said the same teams are working on those respective features? Don't assume that's always the case.

And we've had some great meetings with the NBA2KInsider regarding rosters.

I basically look at this now like...

"There wasn't enough time this developement cycle to intergrate the Euro-League into Associations/MyCareer and we wanted to increase our sales in Europe as quickly as possible"

Sorry for calling you out here LD2K but what exactly do you expect "your" customers to do with 10 Euro teams that are only good for exhibition games & majority of the people haven't even heard of the players on these teams?... it's like you guys want to frustrate your supporters?.

Now i'm not saying adding "the Euro teams is a bad idea!", but why only for quick play and why bring them in now?, There are so many other features in 2k that still need fixing/tweaking let alone correcting the "ACTUAL NBA ROSTERS". I honestly think more people would have been excited if you guys simply announced "We are adding more European names to the name database!".

LD2K i'm very grateful for what 2k has brought us in basketball games especially the last few years, but tacking on new features every year and not fixing long standing issues within the Rosters,Modes and Gameplay can become frustrating, especially when there is not many confirmed answers by the developers as to why things are left the way they are.

Now as for your "specific teams"...Can you please tell me what the association team has been doing the last 2-3 years?...
We are lucky to have an assortment of options through 2kshare to choose our rosters from, but now anybody with some interest in playing a realistic association will steer clear of 2k's defualt rosters!...
Don't you guys take that as a big insult?
I mean the bottom line here is the community is doing a better job for free!.

Staying back on topic with the new Euro-League Feature teams, I just want to say I really hope your "Insider" nails the NBA Rosters, I hope you have every cyberface, every rating, every tendency, every player available & correct this year...because if you don't, your going to be faced with more frustrated customers, more questions to dodge!, and more criticism that probably was unnecessary because you added another useless, unfinished, unpolished Feature to your project.


I hope you read this LD2K and understand the point I'm trying to make!, Features don't sell basketball games anymore!, Accuracy and Realism does!

[vtcrb]

Re: NBA 2K14 Euroleague Q&A

I basically look at this now like...

"There wasn't enough time this developement cycle to intergrate the Euro-League into Associations/MyCareer and we wanted to increase our sales in Europe as quickly as possible"

Sorry for calling you out here LD2K but what exactly do you expect "your" customers to do with 10 Euro teams that are only good for exhibition games & majority of the people haven't even heard of the players on these teams?... it's like you guys want to frustrate your supporters?.

Now i'm not saying adding "the Euro teams is a bad idea!", but why only for quick play and why bring them in now?, There are so many other features in 2k that still need fixing/tweaking let alone correcting the "ACTUAL NBA ROSTERS". I honestly think more people would have been excited if you guys simply announced "We are adding more European names to the name database!".

LD2K i'm very grateful for what 2k has brought us in basketball games especially the last few years, but tacking on new features every year and not fixing long standing issues within the Rosters,Modes and Gameplay can become frustrating, especially when there is not many confirmed answers by the developers as to why things are left the way they are.

Now as for your "specific teams"...Can you please tell me what the association team has been doing the last 2-3 years?...
We are lucky to have an assortment of options through 2kshare to choose our rosters from, but now anybody with some interest in playing a realistic association will steer clear of 2k's defualt rosters!...
Don't you guys take that as a big insult?
I mean the bottom line here is the community is doing a better job for free!.

Staying back on topic with the new Euro-League Feature teams, I just want to say I really hope your "Insider" nails the NBA Rosters, I hope you have every cyberface, every rating, every tendency, every player available & correct this year...because if you don't, your going to be faced with more frustrated customers, more questions to dodge!, and more criticism that probably was unnecessary because you added another useless,unfinished,unpolished Feature to your project.


I hope you read this LD2K and understand the point I'm trying to make!, Features don't sell basketball games anymore!, Accuracy and Realism does!

Very well put.

[Melbournelad]

Re: NBA 2K14 Euroleague Q&A

I basically look at this now like...

"There wasn't enough time this developement cycle to intergrate the Euro-League into Associations/MyCareer and we wanted to increase our sales in Europe as quickly as possible"

Sorry for calling you out here LD2K but what exactly do you expect "your" customers to do with 10 Euro teams that are only good for exhibition games & majority of the people haven't even heard of the players on these teams?... it's like you guys want to frustrate your supporters?.

Now i'm not saying adding "the Euro teams is a bad idea!", but why only for quick play and why bring them in now?, There are so many other features in 2k that still need fixing/tweaking let alone correcting the "ACTUAL NBA ROSTERS". I honestly think more people would have been excited if you guys simply announced "We are adding more European names to the name database!".

LD2K i'm very grateful for what 2k has brought us in basketball games especially the last few years, but tacking on new features every year and not fixing long standing issues within the Rosters,Modes and Gameplay can become frustrating, especially when there is not many confirmed answers by the developers as to why things are left the way they are.

Now as for your "specific teams"...Can you please tell me what the association team has been doing the last 2-3 years?...
We are lucky to have an assortment of options through 2kshare to choose our rosters from, but now anybody with some interest in playing a realistic association will steer clear of 2k's defualt rosters!...
Don't you guys take that as a big insult?
I mean the bottom line here is the community is doing a better job for free!.

Staying back on topic with the new Euro-League Feature teams, I just want to say I really hope your "Insider" nails the NBA Rosters, I hope you have every cyberface, every rating, every tendency, every player available & correct this year...because if you don't, your going to be faced with more frustrated customers, more questions to dodge!, and more criticism that probably was unnecessary because you added another useless, unfinished, unpolished Feature to your project.


I hope you read this LD2K and understand the point I'm trying to make!, Features don't sell basketball games anymore!, Accuracy and Realism does!

Couldn't have said it any better mate, i really really hope LD2k reads this and the team takes it on board. ENOUGH with ignoring association year in year out. It's time for 2k to step up. Most of the issues don't even take long to fix, so why keep ignoring them 2k? The only conclusion people can then draw is that it's just pure laziness.

As well as actually provding at least a half realistic roster this year. It is beyond me why the "2k insider" still even has a job (If he even exists lol).

[Da_Czar]

my whole purpose to play a game is to do more then just play a quick game . 2k11 and 12 did a great job adding modes to compliment these teams purpose for being in the game . 2k13 only just gave them to you for the sake of you guys just wanting them . I do enjoy the classics being there . but after a few games played I get bored . this is only IMO . please let me know y u enjoy the teams just sitting there with no purpose ?

Some people export these teams and create others to go along with them and play in a season mode or association. Especially on the PC. Also some enjoy having playoffs with all the greatest team vs one another. Using one's imagination there is much more available than quick play.

2k11 was an experience, Same with 2k12... 2k13 was a different experience. In a sense it's almost like Jay Z dudes what to hear my old stuff by my old album. LOL

So as a community just because you don't see or can apply a use for teams input in a certain way doesn't mean they should be removed.

Also once the euro's are in this year in theory that would be one less step in the future to including them in other modes etc. I am not saying that is what will happen but sometimes you have to plan things out over a few years due to the time restrictions. Everyone assumes that the decision to add these teams was made at the beginning of the dev cycle. What if it wasn't ? (pure speculation)

[dror853]

Re: NBA 2K14 Euroleague Q&A

im from israel and a big fan of macabi (euro team that will be on 2k14), and even just for quick game this is huge for me, something i was hoping for a long time. im sure there are many euro fans which feel the same way.

i do realize that for us players this is completely worthless, its really a small feature just for the euro players.