NBA 2K14 Community Team-Up Recommendations

[Leftos]

Re: NBA 2K14 Community Team-Up Recommendations

There's a huge change of perspective that some of you may never get to experience. I helped run The NLSC for a while, I complained about the same issues, I participated in wishlists and reported issues to Chris as much as I could, while creating modding tools to enhance the experience outside the game and doing a Podcast to keep the community up-to-date and engaged. And now I'm actually part of the dev team. I have seen the work. I have seen the developers, the designers, the producers, the executives. I have seen the direction. And it all saddens me.

No, I haven't regretted joining 2K. Quite the opposite. I gave up on 4 PhD offers to join 2K. I gave up on 4 years of guaranteed funding and work with some of the brightest minds Computer Science has to join 2K. And I haven't regretted it one bit. Being in the office for a bit over 2 weeks has shown me all I needed to know.

So what saddens me? It saddens me that you can't see things from the inside. The mindset of the people working here. The passion. What they want to do with the game, and the pressure a yearly release cycle puts on you. But the people here persevere and do a great job every year. They've had their missteps, and they recognize them, they acknowledge them, they do all they can to get better.

You can't satisfy all the people all the time. And some of you will consider what I'm saying vague ***-kissing about my current colleagues and employers. The few of you that really know me, know what camp I'm coming from, and what would excite me so much as far as work goes, may get a renewed hope for the franchise, may just get that bit more excited. And that's all worth it.

I hope as the preview season progresses and you find out what's in store, you can all share my excitement. And if after all you don't, which I pretty much doubt, Chris, Ronnie, me, and many other guys that may not post that much, will be around to listen to you.

We tend to ignore what the development process is like. We tend to forget how many community requests 2K13 addressed once we notice the things that bother us in this year's game. That's the way it goes. But here it is from an inside source: 2K listens. And 2K doesn't usually hire people for whom basketball video games are merely another job, another stint in the game industry. It looks for passion and talent. And that's something that's apparent no matter who you talk to here at the Novato office.

There's a lot of very cool stuff coming. Believe me or not, that's up to you. And that's as much as I can say. I hope the Team-Up members communicate that when they come back and share with you what we've shown them.

[alabamarob]

Re: NBA 2K14 Community Team-Up Recommendations

There's a huge change of perspective that some of you may never get to experience. I helped run The NLSC for a while, I complained about the same issues, I participated in wishlists and reported issues to Chris as much as I could, while creating modding tools to enhance the experience outside the game and doing a Podcast to keep the community up-to-date and engaged. And now I'm actually part of the dev team. I have seen the work. I have seen the developers, the designers, the producers, the executives. I have seen the direction. And it all saddens me.

No, I haven't regretted joining 2K. Quite the opposite. I gave up on 4 PhD offers to join 2K. I gave up on 4 years of guaranteed funding and work with some of the brightest minds Computer Science has to join 2K. And I haven't regretted it one bit. Being in the office for a bit over 2 weeks has shown me all I needed to know.

So what saddens me? It saddens me that you can't see things from the inside. The mindset of the people working here. The passion. What they want to do with the game, and the pressure a yearly release cycle puts on you. But the people here persevere and do a great job every year. They've had their missteps, and they recognize them, they acknowledge them, they do all they can to get better.

You can't satisfy all the people all the time. And some of you will consider what I'm saying vague ***-kissing about my current colleagues and employers. The few of you that really know me, know what camp I'm coming from, and what would excite me so much as far as work goes, may get a renewed hope for the franchise, may just get that bit more excited. And that's all worth it.

I hope as the preview season progresses and you find out what's in store, you can all share my excitement. And if after all you don't, which I pretty much doubt, Chris, Ronnie, me, and many other guys that may not post that much, will be around to listen to you.

We tend to ignore what the development process is like. We tend to forget how many community requests 2K13 addressed once we notice the things that bother us in this year's game. That's the way it goes. But here it is from an inside source: 2K listens. And 2K doesn't usually hire people for whom basketball video games are merely another job, another stint in the game industry. It looks for passion and talent. And that's something that's apparent no matter who you talk to here at the Novato office.

There's a lot of very cool stuff coming. Believe me or not, that's up to you. And that's as much as I can say. I hope the Team-Up members communicate that when they come back and share with you what we've shown them.

Anyone who is or has ever been a professional, artist, or planner/organizer of a large event/production should understand that what is seen is not always an indication of what was does done to show what was seen. Therefore, I would agree that 2k probably gives maximum effort in making the game "they" want. However, I do think that a "lay" person can still see a final product and make an objective comment on the creators goal. My issue with 2k13 is not that it the game lacks depth and options, but that its goal was not to make the game more realistic but more playable.

[mango_prom]

Re: NBA 2K14 Community Team-Up Recommendations

There's a huge change of perspective that some of you may never get to experience. I helped run The NLSC for a while, I complained about the same issues, I participated in wishlists and reported issues to Chris as much as I could, while creating modding tools to enhance the experience outside the game and doing a Podcast to keep the community up-to-date and engaged. And now I'm actually part of the dev team. I have seen the work. I have seen the developers, the designers, the producers, the executives. I have seen the direction. And it all saddens me.

No, I haven't regretted joining 2K. Quite the opposite. I gave up on 4 PhD offers to join 2K. I gave up on 4 years of guaranteed funding and work with some of the brightest minds Computer Science has to join 2K. And I haven't regretted it one bit. Being in the office for a bit over 2 weeks has shown me all I needed to know.

So what saddens me? It saddens me that you can't see things from the inside. The mindset of the people working here. The passion. What they want to do with the game, and the pressure a yearly release cycle puts on you. But the people here persevere and do a great job every year. They've had their missteps, and they recognize them, they acknowledge them, they do all they can to get better.

You can't satisfy all the people all the time. And some of you will consider what I'm saying vague ***-kissing about my current colleagues and employers. The few of you that really know me, know what camp I'm coming from, and what would excite me so much as far as work goes, may get a renewed hope for the franchise, may just get that bit more excited. And that's all worth it.

I hope as the preview season progresses and you find out what's in store, you can all share my excitement. And if after all you don't, which I pretty much doubt, Chris, Ronnie, me, and many other guys that may not post that much, will be around to listen to you.

We tend to ignore what the development process is like. We tend to forget how many community requests 2K13 addressed once we notice the things that bother us in this year's game. That's the way it goes. But here it is from an inside source: 2K listens. And 2K doesn't usually hire people for whom basketball video games are merely another job, another stint in the game industry. It looks for passion and talent. And that's something that's apparent no matter who you talk to here at the Novato office.

There's a lot of very cool stuff coming. Believe me or not, that's up to you. And that's as much as I can say. I hope the Team-Up members communicate that when they come back and share with you what we've shown them.

Great post! I admit that a lot of criticism towards 2k is probably overly gerneralized and based on insufficient informations about what's really going on during the dev process.
So I really get your point of view. As a customer who pays money every year to support 2ks work ( you don't have to as a PC gamer, many don't give a sh*t and download everything...), it's kind of hard to determine the reasons for certain shortcomings and issues the game might have. I mean it's not like 2k is somehow required to explain this stuff, not at all. They provide a product, and you enjoy it or you don't. That's it. And of course we don't know anything about how game design works.

So maybe AI playcalling will be broken for the 4th year in a row. Maybe rosters are still a mess. Maybe association still has the same flaws it had since 2k3. Could be that these things were impossible to fix over the course of the last 3 years, and I have wrong conceptions and expectations about how game design works. As someone clearly not qualified in anything related to programming, it's just hard to imagine that it's impossible to get AI playcalling/touches to work properly, test plays before they're added and have rosters at least a bit more based on reality.

But I completely understand your post, looking forward to your work on future games.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA 2K14 Community Team-Up Recommendations

Great post! I admit that a lot of criticism towards 2k is probably overly gerneralized and based on insufficient informations about what's really going on during the dev process.
So I really get your point of view. As a customer who pays money every year to support 2ks work ( you don't have to as a PC gamer, many don't give a sh*t and download everything...), it's kind of hard to determine the reasons for certain shortcomings and issues the game might have. I mean it's not like 2k is somehow required to explain this stuff, not at all. They provide a product, and you enjoy it or you don't. That's it. And of course we don't know anything about how game design works.

So maybe AI playcalling will be broken for the 4th year in a row. Maybe rosters are still a mess. Maybe association still has the same flaws it had since 2k3. Could be that these things were impossible to fix over the course of the last 3 years, and I have wrong conceptions and expectations about how game design works. As someone clearly not qualified in anything related to programming, it's just hard to imagine that it's impossible to get AI playcalling/touches to work properly, test plays before they're added and have rosters at least a bit more based on reality.

But I completely understand your post, looking forward to your work on future games.

I just had this conversation with someone I won't name (can if he wants to chime in) about the process that gave me a little bit of a better understanding to the reasons a few things happen. I will use the play calling as an example as I have always thought the plays were not tested properly to work. This was and is not the case. The plays are tested a ton and over and over but the question is when are they tested.

Each developer has an area of the game that they are working on such as Mike Wang redid the right stick dribbling, I believe it was Zach who does the post game etc. Everyone is working on their area of the game. They then blend them together (mash up if you will) and this is where bugs can happen. The game could be working just fine with the area they are working on until this happens. I think alot of you think these devs are just lazy and that is NOT the case! On the other hand maybe the 2k insider is though! But thats a whole different story! LOL

So, back to my example of plays being tested. They were and are tested constantly, but if they are not tested at the end after everything has been mashed up, tweaked, and after eliminating as many of the bugs as they could find or get out then this is why you will see some of the plays not work. They have been tested, but need to be tested at the end of everything. They all probably worked perfectly at 1 point of the testing but things happen when you throw all the different areas of the game together.

You need to trust Leftos in what he is saying because those guys care just as much as we do about putting the best game out that they can. We need to remember that they have 60-70 guys working on a game (which is small) compared to let's say a EA or madden who maybe doubles that. There is only so much you or 1 can do in a year and on a yearly dev cycle.

This game has come so far and every year it takes strides. It will NEVER be perfect. There will always be a bug, glitch, or something broken. Its impossible to have the perfect game. Its all subjective anyways. We all have areas of the game we play more than others and want this or that fixed. I love the play books. Its hard for me to complain about plays when a few years ago there weren't even plays in the game! Then there was 4 per player in 2k11 and now we can have up to 32 if we so wish per player. It's a process and I get that now. Mike had said last year that the R stick dribbling would improve in year 2 as he had more he wanted to put in that we would understand more this year. It go's in phases and maybe some things have a 2-3 year plan.

Also, I'm sure this year has to be tough as they not only have to worry about a game for this gen, but next gen as well. Rest assured these guys have a passion for what they do! They have a plan!

We just need to be patient, but still voice our complaints as they need to hear what needs to be fixed. They read these forums whether they chime in and post or not. They are here on a daily basis. We all just need to communicate in a positive and constructive way.

[vtcrb]

Re: NBA 2K14 Community Team-Up Recommendations

I just had this conversation with someone I won't name (can if he wants to chime in) about the process that gave me a little bit of a better understanding to the reasons a few things happen. I will use the play calling as an example as I have always thought the plays were not tested properly to work. This was and is not the case. The plays are tested a ton and over and over but the question is when are they tested.

Each developer has an area of the game that they are working on such as Mike Wang redid the right stick dribbling, I believe it was Zach who does the post game etc. Everyone is working on their area of the game. They then blend them together (mash up if you will) and this is where bugs can happen. The game could be working just fine with the area they are working on until this happens. I think alot of you think these devs are just lazy and that is NOT the case! On the other hand maybe the 2k insider is though! But thats a whole different story! LOL

So, back to my example of plays being tested. They were and are tested constantly, but if they are not tested at the end after everything has been mashed up, tweaked, and after eliminating as many of the bugs as they could find or get out then this is why you will see some of the plays not work. They have been tested, but need to be tested at the end of everything. They all probably worked perfectly at 1 point of the testing but things happen when you throw all the different areas of the game together.

You need to trust Leftos in what he is saying because those guys care just as much as we do about putting the best game out that they can. We need to remember that they have 60-70 guys working on a game (which is small) compared to let's say a EA or madden who maybe doubles that. There is only so much you or 1 can do in a year and on a yearly dev cycle.

This game has come so far and every year it takes strides. It will NEVER be perfect. There will always be a bug, glitch, or something broken. Its impossible to have the perfect game. Its all subjective anyways. We all have areas of the game we play more than others and want this or that fixed. I love the play books. Its hard for me to complain about plays when a few years ago there weren't even plays in the game! Then there was 4 per player in 2k11 and now we can have up to 32 if we so wish per player. It's a process and I get that now. Mike had said last year that the R stick dribbling would improve in year 2 as he had more he wanted to put in that we would understand more this year. It go's in phases and maybe some things have a 2-3 year plan.

Also, I'm sure this year has to be tough as they not only have to worry about a game for this gen, but next gen as well. Rest assured these guys have a passion for what they do! They have a plan!

We just need to be patient, but still voice our complaints as they need to hear what needs to be fixed. They read these forums whether they chime in and post or not. They are here on a daily basis. We all just need to communicate in a positive and constructive way.

All VALID points VANN. My MAIN issue would be they keep implementing NEW things in without getting the Existing Bugs fixed. I LOVE the addition of the EUROLEAGUE teams, but if that took time and resources away from fixing issues that need addressing, then to me it was not a good move in my opinion. I understand you need NEW features in games, and I am HOPING the D-League is one of the NEW features in the Game. Also hoping they have addressed what you guys brought up at TeamUp last year.

Guess we will all have to wait until they release some NEW details, that doesnt pertain to music. LOL

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA 2K14 Community Team-Up Recommendations

All VALID points VANN. My MAIN issue would be they keep implementing NEW things in without getting the Existing Bugs fixed. I LOVE the addition of the EUROLEAGUE teams, but if that took time and resources away from fixing issues that need addressing, then to me it was not a good move in my opinion. I understand you need NEW features in games, and I am HOPING the D-League is one of the NEW features in the Game. Also hoping they have addressed what you guys brought up at TeamUp last year.

Guess we will all have to wait until they release some NEW details, that doesnt pertain to music. LOL

Ya, you just said it though. Sure we would all like them to just fix what needs to be fixed. But let's be honest if we had that and no new features it would just be nba2k13.5. Plus obviously this is a business and they need to have new shiny new features to market the game. But the 1st year is let's just get it in the game just like the playbooks. They have gotten better every year since they were brought in.

I'm extremely anxious to see this years game and see if any of the feedback from last year made it in. Fingers crossed!

[vtcrb]

Re: NBA 2K14 Community Team-Up Recommendations

Ya, you just said it though. Sure we would all like them to just fix what needs to be fixed. But let's be honest if we had that and no new features it would just be nba2k13.5. Plus obviously this is a business and they need to have new shiny new features to market the game. But the 1st year is let's just get it in the game just like the playbooks. They have gotten better every year since they were brought in.

I'm extremely anxious to see this years game and see if any of the feedback from last year made it in. Fingers crossed!

If they Fixed Association(DLeague and Bugs), CAT, CAP, 2k Share and Playbooks, you wont hear ANY complaining from me. LOL. And User Manual for all of Tendencies and Attributes would be nice, but I can Test. Haha. They can add whatever they want after that.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA 2K14 Community Team-Up Recommendations

If they Fixed Association(DLeague and Bugs), CAT, CAP, 2k Share and Playbooks, you wont hear ANY complaining from me. LOL. And User Manual for all of Tendencies and Attributes would be nice, but I can Test. Haha. They can add whatever they want after that.

lol! I hear ya! :-)

[Eman5805]

Re: NBA 2K14 Community Team-Up Recommendations

If the next gen versions have wingspans making Durant look like Durant for the first time ever, that's all I need ot know.

[mango_prom]

Re: NBA 2K14 Community Team-Up Recommendations

I just had this conversation with someone I won't name (can if he wants to chime in) about the process that gave me a little bit of a better understanding to the reasons a few things happen. I will use the play calling as an example as I have always thought the plays were not tested properly to work. This was and is not the case. The plays are tested a ton and over and over but the question is when are they tested.

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about play design there, but about how the AI is choosing them. Regardless of how many plays you assign, the CPU refuses to use a lot of them at all.
The much bigger issue is that touches doesn't work if you make changes to the default rosters. Fantasy drafts, seasons with trades, generated rookies...just start a game in coach mode and you'll notice that playcalling doesn't follow touches anymore. The starting PG gets ignored most of the time. A backcourt of John Wall at PG and say Brandon Knight at SG? All the plays get called for Knight even though Wall has higher touches. Switch the two and it's the opposite. This can be reproduced over and over again.
I have tested this a lot and can even tell the way you have to scale touches to get at least some plays called for a PG.

It simply doesn't work properly, and hasn't since 2k11. I've bought the PC version every year even though I didn't really like the game just to support 2k. And maybe it's harder to fix than I think. But if it's still that way in 2k14, fantasy seasons are useless. So are associations with trades and generated rookies. So lots of great game modes are pretty useless against the CPU right now and I wonder whether these things are unknown to the devs, impossible to fix or simply not very high on the priority list. In any case, I've spent money on the last 3 versions of 2k on PC without any improvements to this issue, which is kinda frustrating looking at the attention to detail spent on menu redesign, graphics and presentation.

[xrobbyh14x]

Re: NBA 2K14 Community Team-Up Recommendations

Just wanted to get in here quickly and thank anyone that voted for us, as well as congratulating the 7 that got in. I see I need to hang around here more.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA 2K14 Community Team-Up Recommendations

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about play design there, but about how the AI is choosing them. Regardless of how many plays you assign, the CPU refuses to use a lot of them at all.
The much bigger issue is that touches doesn't work if you make changes to the default rosters. Fantasy drafts, seasons with trades, generated rookies...just start a game in coach mode and you'll notice that playcalling doesn't follow touches anymore. The starting PG gets ignored most of the time. A backcourt of John Wall at PG and say Brandon Knight at SG? All the plays get called for Knight even though Wall has higher touches. Switch the two and it's the opposite. This can be reproduced over and over again.
I have tested this a lot and can even tell the way you have to scale touches to get at least some plays called for a PG.

It simply doesn't work properly, and hasn't since 2k11. I've bought the PC version every year even though I didn't really like the game just to support 2k. And maybe it's harder to fix than I think. But if it's still that way in 2k14, fantasy seasons are useless. So are associations with trades and generated rookies. So lots of great game modes are pretty useless against the CPU right now and I wonder whether these things are unknown to the devs, impossible to fix or simply not very high on the priority list. In any case, I've spent money on the last 3 versions of 2k on PC without any improvements to this issue, which is kinda frustrating looking at the attention to detail spent on menu redesign, graphics and presentation.

I understood what you were saying. I was just highlighting to lead into a point. Your point is a whole another issue all together and is extremely frustrating. It is obviously hard coded somewhere in the game maybe like the end of game play calling is. Which is annoying! I hope that end of game play calling 1 day becomes edible and fixed as well. Also, when editing a player or teams touches it obviously should work. Otherwise what is point of it even being in the game. I completely agree with you and understand.

[mango_prom]

Re: NBA 2K14 Community Team-Up Recommendations

I understood what you were saying. I was just highlighting to lead into a point. Your point is a whole another issue all together and is extremely frustrating. It is obviously hard coded somewhere in the game maybe like the end of game play calling is. Which is annoying! I hope that end of game play calling 1 day becomes edible and fixed as well. Also, when editing a player or teams touches it obviously should work. Otherwise what is point of it even being in the game. I completely agree with you and understand.

Yeah, I mean I get your point about the work devs put in, and of course if you play user vs. user, excluding handoffs, most of the plays are kind of useful for human gameplay and the effort put into all the playbooks gets kinda lost in the complaining process, lol. So I really appreciate the work 2k devs put into that. Some plays are fantastic, for example the Horns sets...incredibly useful if you want to recreate realistic strategies against zones.
So it's not like 2k is doing nothing at all, but simply by overhauling the AI a bit, the game could make an incredible leap towards realism. I mean lots and lots of other issues would simply not matter at all if we could really decide which plays the AI runs for each player and the way usage is distributed. So much potential untapped, it's kinda ridiculous how great 2k13 could've been.

[ZQJP]

Re: NBA 2K14 Community Team-Up Recommendations

Did they invite all the people already? Anybody got a list of who was invited? Got a few people that I hope were invited specifically.

[yaboythecib]

I don't think People who already gone Should be able to be voted for..... That not fair to other fans.....