The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

[C_Bailey24]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

I really don't think the CPU is ignoring your settings but what could be happening is your settings might be competing with each other or not in sync.

The guy above who recommended you check your defensive pressure was on the right track.

One thing I suggest is to pick one team (maybe you have) and not to mess with any settings. No coaching sliders or defensive settings changes and no locking down paint, pressure shooters.

ALSO, sometimes what happens is that people set a player to deny ball, but then during the game, decide to lock down the paint which changes those customized settings you might have made while the user thinks they are still in deny position when they are not.

Guard the ball from the three point line in and play vs one team to get to know that opponents personnel inside and out and don't send double teams.

You'll notice that the computer will pretty much score with the same guys each game because it follows the tendencies pretty close.

The other thing you'll notice is that you'll start to get familiar with the play calling and can start to anticipate where and how a guy is getting his scores.

Is it in transition? Is it an early play off one of your scores or is it off a set play?

I've noticed that my AI guys do sag, so often, I'll switch over to them in situations where I know the CPU will find them. This is often in early situations when you are not expecting it and not necessarily off a set play.

I do this kind of practice all of the time vs one team when I play the CPU.

I know it's easy to believe you are being cheated, and I doubt there's much I can do to change your mind in that regard other than to say start on a difficulty level you are comfortable with and see where the breakdowns happen on a consistent basis game after game.

Then see if you can correct them manually first before changing settings.

You offer a lot of maybe's so let me pose a question back to you. I posted that my help defense slider was not high (which causes players to rotate and leave their man at least little inkling of the ball handler beating his man), and also that i raised Off Ball Pressure. So what other settings could have "maybe" conflicting with each other? I'd really like to know.
I've played this matchup (Bucks/Warriors) several times and trying different things. I've tried setting Klay's man to Off Ball Deny with no other individual settings changes and it still happens. I've played while only controlling my C or PF so as to have no interference from me in the perimeter D and everytime it happens i go to replay to see what is causing this. Its not happening in situations where the ball handler has broke his man down forcing the defense to rotate. I could handle that. It's happening in those "shot clock cheese" (a phrase i don't really believe in) where you've contained dribble drives by other players and the clock is ticking down under 5 seconds and they whip it over to Klay and he hits the shot because his man has sagged off.

I don't believe the game is ignoring my setting just because i want to. I believe that because the replay shows me so. There's no drive coming his way. Klay didn't fake a cut to the basket then step back out. There's simply no reason for him to be sagging off if i have set him to Deny Off Ball. This also isn't about winning or losing because i can handle and enjoy both. I simply wanna understand what is going here. I want my strategies and settings to mean something and not feel "gamed" so frequently.

[sreckless]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Yeah i've tried that but its not consistent. I was playing as the Bucks vs Warrior. Not a good defensive team by no stretch. So when Curry and Klay were both in the game i would guard Curry mostly and set Klay to Deny Off Ball because this is when he was hurting me the most. When Curry was out i'd guard him myself and take my chances with Iguodola and Tony Douglas guarded by CPU. For whatever reason O.J. Mayo would sag off Klay for no reason.

My Off Ball i tried at 85 on up to 100. Help D was at 60. I don't set that too high because i read somewhere that if its High and u also have a couple guys to Deny Off Ball then the rotations get a little screwy/ A.I. gets a little confused.

I saw this effect all the time online in quick match and offline in 2k13 and now again in 2k14 -- defenders sagging off shooters and giving up wide open jumpers regardless of situation or setting.

My feeling at this point is that this is not a glitch, that the game is intentionally designed this way -- AI defenders are programmed to give extra space in order to boost three-point shooting percentages.

edit: I do agree with what C2K is saying also. There is a lot that goes into the game so it pays to keep testing and trying different combinations.

One thing to note is that a 60 help defense setting is still pretty high. You can try turning it to down to 25 or 30 and you might start to get better results. I think you will still see the issue sometimes but it can definitely be lessened.

[Coach2K]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

You offer a lot of maybe's so let me pose a question back to you. I posted that my help defense slider was not high (which causes players to rotate and leave their man at least little inkling of the ball handler beating his man), and also that i raised Off Ball Pressure. So what other settings could have "maybe" conflicting with each other? I'd really like to know.
I've played this matchup (Bucks/Warriors) several times and trying different things. I've tried setting Klay's man to Off Ball Deny with no other individual settings changes and it still happens. I've played while only controlling my C or PF so as to have no interference from me in the perimeter D and everytime it happens i go to replay to see what is causing this. Its not happening in situations where the ball handler has broke his man down forcing the defense to rotate. I could handle that. It's happening in those "shot clock cheese" (a phrase i don't really believe in) where you've contained dribble drives by other players and the clock is ticking down under 5 seconds and they whip it over to Klay and he hits the shot because his man has sagged off.

I don't believe the game is ignoring my setting just because i want to. I believe that because the replay shows me so. There's no drive coming his way. Klay didn't fake a cut to the basket then step back out. There's simply no reason for him to be sagging off if i have set him to Deny Off Ball. This also isn't about winning or losing because i can handle and enjoy both. I simply wanna understand what is going here. I want my strategies and settings to mean something and not feel "gamed" so frequently.

I guess my first thought was that you might be setting your settings and then going into a quick defense of lock down paint which might deactivate them.

It could be an awareness issue of the defender.

It's good you are testing thoroughly in particular playing off ball to make sure your perimeter defense is not the cause because often people don't do that.

My next step would be to play using a team with a stellar defender at that position and see if you get the same result.

It could be situational at certain times. Is it always?

This one of the reasons I'm not big on changing the settings. While I see users have success vs me with them often more problems are created.

The main thing I would also advise is you can't play on ball 100 percent if the time in some situations. There are times you have to adjust for the CPU.

[Erithtotl]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

This is a very good OP and has some stuff I didn't really know about.

Now, how about the other part of defense, getting the defensive rebound?

This is my biggest frustration with the game. Last game I played, up by 2 with about 30 seconds left, the defensive rebound literally rolled off David West's shoulder, down his arm, bounced into Roy Hibbert, bounced off his body and his hands, then Ryan Anderson came from across the court, grabbed it away from both of them and laid it in.

I turned off the XBox at that point.

If I have a really good game I can maybe match my opponent's rebound total in a game, and this is with the #1 rebounding team in the league.

[jersez]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Here it is just got back into my house, hope this helps. <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fEEvrmCns_Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Coach2K]

The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

This is a very good OP and has some stuff I didn't really know about.

Now, how about the other part of defense, getting the defensive rebound?

This is my biggest frustration with the game. Last game I played, up by 2 with about 30 seconds left, the defensive rebound literally rolled off David West's shoulder, down his arm, bounced into Roy Hibbert, bounced off his body and his hands, then Ryan Anderson came from across the court, grabbed it away from both of them and laid it in.

I turned off the XBox at that point.

If I have a really good game I can maybe match my opponent's rebound total in a game, and this is with the #1 rebounding team in the league.

Yeah the Pacers suck in 2K so far lol. Hibbert doesn't even jump on the defensive end!

[sirjam]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

This is a very good OP and has some stuff I didn't really know about.

Now, how about the other part of defense, getting the defensive rebound?

This is my biggest frustration with the game. Last game I played, up by 2 with about 30 seconds left, the defensive rebound literally rolled off David West's shoulder, down his arm, bounced into Roy Hibbert, bounced off his body and his hands, then Ryan Anderson came from across the court, grabbed it away from both of them and laid it in.

I turned off the XBox at that point.

If I have a really good game I can maybe match my opponent's rebound total in a game, and this is with the #1 rebounding team in the league.

There's a YouTube video about this, he claims holding l trigger when the ball is shot will make all your guys boxout. Now I didn't notice this when I did it but sometimes my trigger doesn't work well. I got my controller were Jerz got his lol.

[Sovartus]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Yes, holding LT/L2 when the ball is shot helps with rebounding significantly. I can really tell a difference and it shows in my stats too.


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[Jano]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Great thread Sovartus.

After reading that first post I've come to the conclusion that I miss the days when 2K was a simple game. I liked it when I could play and not have to adjust settings just so my teammates would help or rebound.

Right now I dislike having to micromanage my team lol. I don't want to have to manage my settings and tell my teammate to deny the ball on Ray Allen.

I don't want to have to Hold LT just so the rest of my teammates will box out. I dislike having to control every defender on my team just to stop the PG from getting into the paint.

I would like more competent teammates by default but now I see the very nature of the game has changed. All these settings were put in for a reason so now I gotta start using them and can't rely on the virtual coach anymore... sigh lol.

[alabamarob]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Two big thumbs up.

Based on many of the threads around here and comments from developers, I have started to question how much of a commitment there is to balancing and improving play in online team vs. team (i.e. quick match).

I'm even beginning to wonder if the game being so good in this area (IMO) in 2k11 and 2k12 (less so in 2k13) was achieved by accident rather than careful design.

2k11 and 2k12 had signature dribbling and more realistic shot gathers. This new push for responsiveness has killed the games balance. Chaining dribble moves together on 14 is very unrealistic and allows any and everyone to penetrate too effectively. Signature dribbling prevented this.

The unrealistic gathers allow for people jack up threes all game to quickly.

If you go to 2k11 you had to set to shoot threes and the transition three game was less effective.

[Agame]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

[QUOTE=alabamarob;2045600049]2k11 and 2k12 had signature dribbling and more realistic shot gathers. This new push for responsiveness has killed the games balance. Chaining dribble moves together on 14 is very unrealistic and allows any and everyone to penetrate too effectively. Signature dribbling prevented this.

The unrealistic gathers allow for people jack up threes all game to quickly.

If you go to 2k11 you had to set to shoot threes and the transition three game was less effective."

bold Is the best statement on 2k14 for the issues regarding realistic gameplay. I do like the idea of improved responsiveness, but should have left Signature Dribbling in the game. Lots of game aspects are greatly improved-Really enjoying the game.

Question:]. Is there a magic number for Verticle rating to get player to react quicker to rebounds?

[Erithtotl]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

So, taking into mind the thoughts from the OP, I loaded up my association game.

As the Pacers I'd replayed the game against the hornets like 3 times (at home) and lost every time.

Same story, giving up lots of offensive rebounds and easy scores at the hoop, generating very few turnovers, blocks, etc. Essentially very un-Pacer like.

I went into the coach profile and cranked the on ball and off ball pressure up to 80.

I won by 30.

I beat them on the boards by 10 and held them to 5 ORB despite them shooting a crappy percentage. I had 9 steals (none of these from my manually trying to steal), and a LOT of fast break dunks and layups/free throws (very rare, previously my breaks sucked so much at best I got an open 3). Suddenly my players were boxing out and contesting shots and getting their hands on the ball.

I have to think this is entirely due to them no longer constantly sagging off which must be the default.

Note I did this on All-Star, not pro.

[Coach2K]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

So, taking into mind the thoughts from the OP, I loaded up my association game.

As the Pacers I'd replayed the game against the hornets like 3 times (at home) and lost every time.

Same story, giving up lots of offensive rebounds and easy scores at the hoop, generating very few turnovers, blocks, etc. Essentially very un-Pacer like.

I went into the coach profile and cranked the on ball and off ball pressure up to 80.

I won by 30.

I beat them on the boards by 10 and held them to 5 ORB despite them shooting a crappy percentage. I had 9 steals (none of these from my manually trying to steal), and a LOT of fast break dunks and layups/free throws (very rare, previously my breaks sucked so much at best I got an open 3). Suddenly my players were boxing out and contesting shots and getting their hands on the ball.

I have to think this is entirely due to them no longer constantly sagging off which must be the default.

Note I did this on All-Star, not pro.

Out of the box the Pacers as you discovered take a lot of work to use. To me that's the biggest problem with 2K. The Pacers should play great defense out of the box. I shouldn't have to mess with the settings to get them to do it. Especially rebounding. It's really kind of pathetic.

What it tells me is that the settings rule regardless of team - one of the reasons I prefer people to leave them alone.

[2K Labs]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Too bad i dont really play online. Its good to hear that this nonsense isn't happening in hum vs hum but playing the CPU its like they ignore my defensive settings to make it "difficult". This isn't about winning or losing i just want the settings to work correctly. I was willing to let Iguodola, Douglas and Barnes have some open shots and if they drove rotate with one of my big men and contest the layup/shot in the paint. Letting Klay and Curry shoot open threes was what i was trying to contain...but it seems the A.I. has other plans.

Here's my stab in the dark on explaining what you're seeing:

From time to time, a player is inexplicably out of position, regardless of how you have your settings. I've got a suspicion that these are intentional 'defensive breakdowns'...triggered somewhat randomly, with the chances of it occurring being based off the difference in awareness ratings between the match ups. This is kinda realistic; you wouldn't expect any defender to be able to deny Klay Thompson 24 seconds of every possession without getting lost from time to time, and it would happen more often against worse defenders.

The problem is when you raise the difficulty, the boosts the AI receives ensures they will have significant advantages in awareness on practically every match up on the floor. This seems to mean you'll see these breakdowns more often...and practically only in the AI's favor.

The computer's not ignoring your settings exactly, it's just that your players don't execute perfectly. They make mistakes. As you up the difficulty, this is a one-sided issue because your opponent gets closer and closer to perfect.

[sirjam]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

I wish there was tighter controls. I'm having the issue now after the update of my guys not closing out properly. If the cpu moves the ball or penetrates, when I click to the next man where the ball is he will close out and then basically stand there like hes in quicksand allowing the cpu to penetrate by me. This happens alot when defending the penetration as well. So frustrating.