Bad Dunks=Metaphor for all problems of 2k4

[jfsolo]

This is a shout out to Admiral50 specifically and to others of a similar thought process. I know it gets your dandruff up when you see people accentuating the horrible dunks when you feel that there are so many more important glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed. I think many posters(not being windbags like myself) use the dunks as the poster child for the games problems. It probably isn't a conscious thing but it is natural to use the most high profile aspect of a game to make your point. It's like focusing on homeruns in baseball.

I think this is the rationale. Any developer/programmer/coder, whatever, who would make a game where Yao, Shaq, Vlade, etc. is doing windmill dunks, or Kevin Ollie or Eric Snow are gliding like Clide Drexler probably isn't going to give two hoots about 1. realistic player tendencies, 2. real team playbooks. 3. proper court spacing and player movement. 4. solid team defensive a.i. 5. realistic substitution patterns by C.P.U. 6... I could go on and on but you get my point.

The dunks in college hoops, while not perfect, were 1000% better than the pro game, this attention to detail seemed to be carried over to the other aspects of the game. You might think it's a reach on my part but, I think there's some validity to this arguement. If you butcher the aspect of the game that most people care about the most, what are you going to do with all the "little" things in the game?

[Admiral50]

Re: Bad Dunks=Metaphor for all problems of 2k4

I understand what you say, but what worries me is that VC probably doesn't. Putting dunks on the top of the list, regardless of how well you explained it there, doesn't seem right to me.
Maybe it's just me though. That list you just made 1. player tendencies etc,etc, that is more like they way criticisms should be listed. And again, I know you explained it well there, but seeing dunks as the first thought makes me think action, arcade, like they are more important than sim aspects. VC seem a little dumb in regards to who and what they listen to so we have to spell it out clearly
Cheers

[Admiral50]

Re: Bad Dunks=Metaphor for all problems of 2k4

I understand what you say, but what worries me is that VC probably doesn't. Putting dunks on the top of the list, regardless of how well you explained it there, doesn't seem right to me.
Maybe it's just me though. That list you just made 1. player tendencies etc,etc, that is more like they way criticisms should be listed. And again, I know you explained it well there, but seeing dunks as the first thought makes me think action, arcade, like they are more important than sim aspects. VC seem a little dumb in regards to who and what they listen to so we have to spell it out clearly
Cheers

[kirkangil]

Re: Bad Dunks=Metaphor for all problems of 2k4

This is a shout out to Admiral50 specifically and to others of a similar thought process. I know it gets your dandruff up when you see people accentuating the horrible dunks when you feel that there are so many more important glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed. I think many posters(not being windbags like myself) use the dunks as the poster child for the games problems. It probably isn't a conscious thing but it is natural to use the most high profile aspect of a game to make your point. It's like focusing on homeruns in baseball.

I think this is the rationale. Any developer/programmer/coder, whatever, who would make a game where Yao, Shaq, Vlade, etc. is doing windmill dunks, or Kevin Ollie or Eric Snow are gliding like Clide Drexler probably isn't going to give two hoots about 1. realistic player tendencies, 2. real team playbooks. 3. proper court spacing and player movement. 4. solid team defensive a.i. 5. realistic substitution patterns by C.P.U. 6... I could go on and on but you get my point.

The dunks in college hoops, while not perfect, were 1000% better than the pro game, this attention to detail seemed to be carried over to the other aspects of the game. You might think it's a reach on my part but, I think there's some validity to this arguement. If you butcher the aspect of the game that most people care about the most, what are you going to do with all the "little" things in the game?

Great post.

[kirkangil]

Re: Bad Dunks=Metaphor for all problems of 2k4

This is a shout out to Admiral50 specifically and to others of a similar thought process. I know it gets your dandruff up when you see people accentuating the horrible dunks when you feel that there are so many more important glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed. I think many posters(not being windbags like myself) use the dunks as the poster child for the games problems. It probably isn't a conscious thing but it is natural to use the most high profile aspect of a game to make your point. It's like focusing on homeruns in baseball.

I think this is the rationale. Any developer/programmer/coder, whatever, who would make a game where Yao, Shaq, Vlade, etc. is doing windmill dunks, or Kevin Ollie or Eric Snow are gliding like Clide Drexler probably isn't going to give two hoots about 1. realistic player tendencies, 2. real team playbooks. 3. proper court spacing and player movement. 4. solid team defensive a.i. 5. realistic substitution patterns by C.P.U. 6... I could go on and on but you get my point.

The dunks in college hoops, while not perfect, were 1000% better than the pro game, this attention to detail seemed to be carried over to the other aspects of the game. You might think it's a reach on my part but, I think there's some validity to this arguement. If you butcher the aspect of the game that most people care about the most, what are you going to do with all the "little" things in the game?

Great post.

[nkhera1]

Re: Bad Dunks=Metaphor for all problems of 2k4

dunks would probably come under player and team tendencies. The game would be the best if the player and team tendencies were in the game meaning new jersey runs fast break, shaq backs you down then dunks on you, kobe shoots 40 shots a game, td doesn't do windmills, and ray allen doesn't do 360s..

[nkhera1]

Re: Bad Dunks=Metaphor for all problems of 2k4

dunks would probably come under player and team tendencies. The game would be the best if the player and team tendencies were in the game meaning new jersey runs fast break, shaq backs you down then dunks on you, kobe shoots 40 shots a game, td doesn't do windmills, and ray allen doesn't do 360s..

[jordan0386]

Re: Bad Dunks=Metaphor for all problems of 2k4

it shouldnt be tendencies per se...cause coaches and personal affect gameplay

if jason kidd is traded for jermaine oneal, do the nets still fastbreak, no...but you'd be forced to in 2k4

thats why the two fastbreak sliders can be truly an unique aspect of gameplay, if you have alot of playsets, you can then pick accurate one's before a game, then set the fastbreak sliders....then your game tempo, fast break and crash board sliders

giving you even greater depth in gameplay...so, VC better listen up and fix the fastbreak sliders, create accurate fast break crash board and game tempo settings...then include as many playsets as the memory can handle

[jordan0386]

Re: Bad Dunks=Metaphor for all problems of 2k4

it shouldnt be tendencies per se...cause coaches and personal affect gameplay

if jason kidd is traded for jermaine oneal, do the nets still fastbreak, no...but you'd be forced to in 2k4

thats why the two fastbreak sliders can be truly an unique aspect of gameplay, if you have alot of playsets, you can then pick accurate one's before a game, then set the fastbreak sliders....then your game tempo, fast break and crash board sliders

giving you even greater depth in gameplay...so, VC better listen up and fix the fastbreak sliders, create accurate fast break crash board and game tempo settings...then include as many playsets as the memory can handle

[nkhera1]

Re: Bad Dunks=Metaphor for all problems of 2k4

yeah but that would go under player tendencies because jk isn't there any more, and first of all there should be no way that trade should go off. VC should already make some players untradeable in franchise mode (like shaq, duncan, garnett,kobe,yao,lebron, etc.) unless you give a deal to good like yao, t-mac, and 1st round for shaq and eddie jones or something like that. Maybe each player should have a trade value rating. The higher that rating is the less chance that they will be traded.

[nkhera1]

Re: Bad Dunks=Metaphor for all problems of 2k4

yeah but that would go under player tendencies because jk isn't there any more, and first of all there should be no way that trade should go off. VC should already make some players untradeable in franchise mode (like shaq, duncan, garnett,kobe,yao,lebron, etc.) unless you give a deal to good like yao, t-mac, and 1st round for shaq and eddie jones or something like that. Maybe each player should have a trade value rating. The higher that rating is the less chance that they will be traded.

[23]

Re: Bad Dunks=Metaphor for all problems of 2k4

I'd agree with nkhera that they should have player tendencies and then coaching styles added to the teams. So if Kidd goes to Indy he'd be playing like Kidd under Carlile's system.

[23]

Re: Bad Dunks=Metaphor for all problems of 2k4

I'd agree with nkhera that they should have player tendencies and then coaching styles added to the teams. So if Kidd goes to Indy he'd be playing like Kidd under Carlile's system.

[nkhera1]

Re: Bad Dunks=Metaphor for all problems of 2k4

also to keep going on my trading theory in franchise mode, there is no way a player rated more than 90 should be traded unless they are offered two players over 85 and if a player is rated over 95 then they shouldn't even consider the trade unless they are offered two players over 90.

[nkhera1]

Re: Bad Dunks=Metaphor for all problems of 2k4

also to keep going on my trading theory in franchise mode, there is no way a player rated more than 90 should be traded unless they are offered two players over 85 and if a player is rated over 95 then they shouldn't even consider the trade unless they are offered two players over 90.