Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

[chia51]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

Hey chia, have you played the Thunder with this set?
I can never get them playing right no matter what set-up I use and no matter what edits I make (including your and DC's edits and playbooks). Westbrook just isn't aggressive at all and only ends up taking about 10 shots a game and Durant is overly aggressive and takes about 30 shots a game.
If I could just get Russell taking more shots, things would probably even out between the two, but for whatever reason I can't.

Have this exact same problem

I did a search here last night and found some edits from nogster. I don't have time to try them out right now, but if you do let me know if they work:

-Durant: edit touches to 80, pull-up tendency to 50
-Westbrook: touches to 70

Also make sure that Durant doesn't have all of those spot up plays from the Thunder Tight set or the ones where he comes off a double screen.

I will take a look real quick and see if there are any issues with the Thunder.

If a player is jacking a ton of shots there could be a few culprits at hand:
- shot tendency is too high
- touches is too high (this leads into the next one)
- too many catch and shoot plays
- defense is sagging off giving the cpu a reason to shoot (being open)

For Westbrook, what do you want him to do?

[chia51]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

Okay Durant/Westbrook

Here is what I got for the main tendencies and then a quick description to help everyone out with some editing. That way if someone is not driving when the have the opportunity or if someone is jacking shots.

Shot Tend (How often they will shoot when they get the ball)
Durant - 90 (so basically 9/10 times KD will shoot the ball if given the space)
Westbrook - 88

Drive (How often they will look to drive when they get the opportunity)
Durant - 90 (so KD will look to drive 9/10 times if you give him the lane)
Westbrook - 95

Pull Up (How often they will pull up during the drive)
Durant - 80 (So KD will pull up for a shot 8/10 times during a drive)
Westbrook - 65

Attack/Pass Out (Att: How often the player will attack the rim after completing a drive, Pass: Same thing as Att but to pass out instead)
Durant - 70/30 (so KD will at the end of the drive look to attack 7/10 times while thinking about kicking out 3/10 times)
Westbrook - 80/20

Dunk Tendency (How often they will attempt a dunk instead of a layup)
Durant - 40 (so basically KD will attempt a dunk 4/10 times in a given situation, this is affected by dunk rating, dunk in traffic slider, etc...)
Westbrook - 35

Touches (How often they will get a play called for them)
Durant - 31 (DC changed all players so in our roster all of the numbers are low, that itself does not matter as long as everyone is on the same scale [DC used usage rate from hoopdata])
Westbrook - 32

So if we look at KD here, he will get a play called for him 31% of the time, when he gets the ball he will look to shoot 90% of the time, with the ball he will look to drive 90% and when he drives he will pull up 80% of the time, in that 20% that he doesn't pull up and he continues to drive he will attack the rim 70% of the time and 40% of those attacks will be a dunk attempt, the other 30% of the drive finish he will look to kick it out.

Hopefully everyone can understand that. Many factors will increase/decrease the rates there (defense oball def ratings, def awr ratings, etc....)

[hugeheadguy]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

what scale/data should i use when editing draft classes to be even with your "touch" edits

i would use hoopdata but they dont support college stats

[Colts18]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

DraftExpress uses USAGE for college players.

http://www.draftexpress.com/stats.php?qual=prospects&per=&league=NCAA&year=2010%2F11&stage=&pos=&q=&min=20&q=usage

[hugeheadguy]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

from that link what would i use PER, EFF, POS/G, etc

[BlueNGold]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

Thanks for the explantions, chia.

I'll do some more testing later tonight and see if I can fix the issue.

BTW the problem I'm having with Westbrook is that he's just not aggressive and doesn't shoot much. Most of the games I've been playing vs the Thunder have had him take 10 shots the entire game, while Durant is taking 30-35. If I can just get Durant passing a little more instead of always being such a chucker and have Westbrook take some more shots, which would lower the amount of attempts Durant takes, it should all even itself out.

[Colts18]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

Sorry you would use this. Possesions per game

http://www.draftexpress.com/stats.php?year=2010/11&league=NCAA&per=pergame&qual=prospects&q=usage&sort2=DESC&pos=&stage=&min=20&conference=&sort=10

[Colts18]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

Thanks for the explantions, chia.

I'll do some more testing later tonight and see if I can fix the issue.

BTW the problem I'm having with Westbrook is that he's just not aggressive and doesn't shoot much. Most of the games I've been playing vs the Thunder have had him take 10 shots the entire game, while Durant is taking 30-35. If I can just get Durant passing a little more instead of always being such a chucker and have Westbrook take some more shots, which would lower the amount of attempts Durant takes, it should all even itself out.

I played them and Westbrook scored 30 on me. He was driving as well as pulling up from mid ranges.

I think his Attack/Pass out should be like 75/25 so he is a little more aggressive.

[Crossover1]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

@Chia

Did you get my PM?

Concerning Westbrook/ Durant dillema... I have noticed that PGs don't get much plays called for them. How do I know that? When I change AI's main position to PG and start him there he struggles to even reach 13 shot attempts for the whole game, but when I start him at SG he gets plenty of plays called and by halftime he has around 13 attempts. IDK but I think 2K tried to make the PGs setup there team 1st before they look for there own shot. I have found this out for months now by playing against him or watching CPU vs CPU.

[BlueNGold]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

@Chia

Did you get my PM?

Concerning Westbrook/ Durant dillema... I have noticed that PGs don't get much plays called for them. How do I know that? When I change AI's main position to PG and start him there he struggles to even reach 13 shot attempts for the whole game, but when I start him at SG he gets plenty of plays called and by halftime he has around 13 attempts. IDK but I think 2K tried to make the PGs setup there team 1st before they look for there own shot. I have found this out for months now by playing against him or watching CPU vs CPU.

Have you tried jacking up his touches?

BTW, I've somewhat found a nice balance playing the Thunder. Durant was still the main scorer but he wasn't chucking shots at every opportunity. Westbrook also had a nice game and got to the line about 10 times. I'm still trying to get him to take a few more attempts (he only had I think 9), but I'm making progress.

[Crossover1]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

Instead of touching the numbers I would give the big guys pick and roll as majority of their plays, that include the PG position, so he would be more aggressive. For instance, give Perkins and Ibaka at least 3 PnR plays each (make sure it includes the PG) since thats what they mostly do anyways. And if push comes to shove, assign one or two plays from the "other" section that puts the PG in scoring position (mostly PnRs) to the Durant's starting SF section. When assigning plays from "other", the plays are set to whatever position the play calls for regardless of who you assign it to. I had this same issue with Melo jacking up a million shots even when I took away catch and shoot type plays.

[metsandcavs]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

For the sliders you should not put dunk ability at 40 or none of the 45 dunk rating players will be able to dunk.

[Jdoug312]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

Instead of touching the numbers I would give the big guys pick and roll as majority of their plays, that include the PG position, so he would be more aggressive. For instance, give Perkins and Ibaka at least 3 PnR plays each (make sure it includes the PG) since thats what they mostly do anyways. And if push comes to shove, assign one or two plays from the "other" section that puts the PG in scoring position (mostly PnRs) to the Durant's starting SF section. When assigning plays from "other", the plays are set to whatever position the play calls for regardless of who you assign it to. I had this same issue with Melo jacking up a million shots even when I took away catch and shoot type plays.

Just wanted to say that this is indeed the solution. I didn't specifically do pick and roll plays, but I changed 1 of the starting PF, C, bench PF, and C plays for OKC to ones with the point guard receiving the ball instead. Just 1 play from each, and then when playing a game against them, Durant went down from about 30-35 shots taken to 18, and Westbrook took 11 himself.

I totally get the logic behind this, because as previously mentioned, in this game the point guard seems to want to get his teammates first (atleast OKC's PGs do) so most of the time they'll call plays for other teammates, and when they call a play for a PF, or a C, someone who cannot create their own shot, if tight D is played on that player, or if they are out of their ideal range, they pass the ball out instead of putting up a shot.

Usually in OKC's case the dish out is to Durant, with Westbrook being the next most common. When Durant gets the ball he's almost always looking to score, and puts up the shot or drives the lane, whereas when Westbrook gets the ball, he typically sets up another play, usually to Durant because he's the main scorer. By changing just 1 play in the playbook for starting and bench PFs and Cs to plays where Westbrook looks to shoot or attack, you increase the amount of plays called for Westbrook, making him more aggressive, and decreasing the amount of times Durant gets a kick out, bringing his shots per game down by quite a bit.

Make no mistake about it, Durant is still the primary scorer with the changes (in the game I played after the change, Durant still had the most shot attempts for his team at 18, scored 25 pts, and was player of the game.) but Westbrook is now playing more like his real life counterpart (scored 17 points, had 10 assists).

[Jdoug312]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

For the sliders you should not put dunk ability at 40 or none of the 45 dunk rating players will be able to dunk.

I was thinking about this, I might move it back to 45 or even 50, but I'd need to bring the attempt dunks slider down quite a bit then. Right now I have dunk ability at 40, and attempt dunks at 40, so if I raise dunking ability, I'll probably drop attempt dunks down to 30 or so. I'll be playing quick games to get everything as perfect as possible until rowe drops his draft class, then I'll be ready to start association.

[KG#5beantown]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

hey chia,

just played some games with your roster and I have to say that the adjustments that you and DC made are great!

do you plan an update once the editor is released?

accessories need to be updated as well as accessory colors and shoe colors, also with the editor you will be able to make the hidden players and jerseys available.

so the created iverson and antonio daniels could be replaced by the real 2k one and so on...

will you look into this kind of stuff???