Using OTHER people's work

[Weeks]

Re: Using OTHER people's work

I guess I should announce this, but I'll be editing vtcrb's 2013 draft class.

LOL this'll make some even wait longer to start their associations.

You could say I'm overreacting, and I probably am. but I just think it was an arrogant thing to say when Cerbrum did excellent cap work.

Yes, it could be taken as rude I guess...but I would not say that he is acting like he is doing ground breaking work. And in all honesty, he has the best CAPs on OS in my, and I know others, opinion.

Anyways I've shared my opinions, and now I am done with this thread .

[Cowboys63]

Re: Using OTHER people's work

This Thread was made not about ONE specific person. It has been Stewing for months. Today's issue did push it over the edge for me. Huylan and I have talked things out and have an Understanding. Now as far as other issues in this thread. If you feel I have talked down to people then I apologize, sometimes maybe may words come across that way, BUT some people just DONT seem to get the point unless it is put in an abrasive way. This thread took an abrupt turn when Non-OS Roster Makers started making comments. I should have just let it go, BUT that is NOT in me. When someone comments on issues they Know nothing about I can become defensive. I know I have made enemies with this Thread, but that is OS life.

I have read some of your other post on other threads and there are a lot of things that I agree with you on, but abbrassiveness and name calling is uncalled for. Abbrassiveness will only polarize people's opinions and cause a loss of support. Also the way you refer to non-roster makers as "Users" in a condescending way and someone, like me, who had an opposite opinion than yours as "not knowing" what they are talking about, well that is just wrong. Let's face it, whether we are playing the game or editing and making rosters, draft classes or sliders, we all are sitting on our behinds and could be doing other more productive things. Luckily we are free to choose to do what makes us happy.

I've went out of my way to appreciate all people that make roster edits and edit draft classes in several of my post, but for you to write things that sounds like you As a roster editor are better than anyone else here is ridiculous. Let's face it there are lots of people that if they bought the right program, and wanted to put in the time could do what you do. I have on other games, but just haven't posted them to avoid the criticism that you guys have to take. The appreciation from people like me is that you taking that time to make the games better, but no one here should have to bow down to your, mine or anyone else's opinion and be subject to snide and very badly hidden insults.

As for adding something to this site, my "hit" on this site contributes to the success of it as much as yours or anyone elses. I am sure Steve from OS gets money from the advertisers based on how many hits he gets. As long we are respectful to one another, we can comment. If you wish to have only Roster editor comments on the thread then put that in the Thread title.

Now, if the comment about fixing ugly faces was made by the person who was editing your draft class then that was wrong of them. I looked back on that thread an it wasn't there, but maybe it was edited or something.

I never intended to offend anyone here, I especially hope that I didn't offend any other people that upload content, but everyone is entitled to their opinion and to respect within these forums.

[gausec]

Re: Using OTHER people's work

I have read some of your other post on other threads and there are a lot of things that I agree with you on, but abbrassiveness and name calling is uncalled for. Abbrassiveness will only polarize people's opinions and cause a loss of support. Also the way you refer to non-roster makers as "Users" in a condescending way and someone, like me, who had an opposite opinion than yours as "not knowing" what they are talking about, well that is just wrong. Let's face it, whether we are playing the game or editing and making rosters, draft classes or sliders, we all are sitting on our behinds and could be doing other more productive things. Luckily we are free to choose to do what makes us happy.

I've went out of my way to appreciate all people that make roster edits and edit draft classes in several of my post, but for you to write things that sounds like you As a roster editor are better than anyone else here is ridiculous. Let's face it there are lots of people that if they bought the right program, and wanted to put in the time could do what you do. I have on other games, but just haven't posted them to avoid the criticism that you guys have to take. The appreciation from people like me is that you taking that time to make the games better, but no one here should have to bow down to your, mine or anyone else's opinion and be subject to snide and very badly hidden insults.

As for adding something to this site, my "hit" on this site contributes to the success of it as much as yours or anyone elses. I am sure Steve from OS gets money from the advertisers based on how many hits he gets. As long we are respectful to one another, we can comment. If you wish to have only Roster editor comments on the thread then put that in the Thread title.

Now, if the comment about fixing ugly faces was made by the person who was editing your draft class then that was wrong of them. I looked back on that thread an it wasn't there, but maybe it was edited or something.

I never intended to offend anyone here, I especially hope that I didn't offend any other people that upload content, but everyone is entitled to their opinion and to respect within these forums.

Just so you don't think I was lying here is where the quote was made http://www.operationsports.com/forum...classes-9.html

[Cowboys63]

Re: Using OTHER people's work

Just so you don't think I was lying here is where the quote was made http://www.operationsports.com/forum...classes-9.html

Yeah, I see it now. It wasn't that I didn't believe you, I just didn't see it because on this thread it looked like one post, for the sake of fairness,
it should be noted that those post are combined and that particular comment is after about three post that they were arguing. It shouldn't have been said and I would not have insulted v's work, but after what I've read here, I can see why he made it. H did give credit to V and it sounds like he realized he should give the courtesy of asking about release. I'll give benefit of doubt that it was honest mistake.

To me the bigger issue would be with people not giving credit or intentionally messing up someones work. In addition the people that post roster on 2k share under ID's that are just a little off from the correct on any may be trying to trick people, like I believe there is a Pual Pierce with an OS roster on there. It appears that may be to trick people into believing it is Paul Pierce's.

Basically, It may just be my opinion, but the rules of publishing apply here and if you give credit here and 2kshare then the ethical obligation has been met. Just like when I was in college, if you wrote a paper you could use things from other published materials as long as you gave the credit in the notations. If you fail to do that then it would be Plagiarism. Honestly, if it's posted to 2kshare, I bet the owner of the roster is 2K sports.

[MarvinOida]

Ok, I need advice, some dude who goes by Jomari1226 stole my work and keeps on saying its his, I looked at what he posted and all it's little edits or exact copy of my roster, and he also stole Barockafellas street mod. Hes denying everything that he stole off me, and he says that he had his cousin hex edit the draft info. His first roster was on July 3, 2012 and my first roster was June 29, 2012. He also said he "contacted 2K" and I don't know what do, is he trying to scare me or something? I seriously don't know why to do.

[DemiGodzillla]

Re: Using OTHER people's work

WOW. 2k's work. IF 2k did their work then Roster makers would be obsolete. Guess you got bored again. LOL.

It is 2k's work, if you think otherwise try and sell it and see how far you get trying to take legal action once someone uploads it onto 2kshare. You're volunteering, you don't have ownership rights, or any rights for that matter. If no one is claiming credit for your work you don't really have a gripe.

[AG1795]

Re: Using OTHER people's work

I've been following OS for way too long.. and have accumulated too much respect for not only the OS roster makers, but the entire community as a whole, too have it all washed away in the fashion of one fu***ng thread. Some may dismiss my post, as this is my first post on this site. However, I wait patiently and quietly for rosters from the greats out there: vtcrb, Paul Pierce, Rondo is God, Hyperballer, PortlandBlazer, Imperial, and HokupGuy. (Apologies to those I forgot, but is's late as hell.)
Maybe I don't thank everyone aloud on the boards, but I assumed nothing but maturity and total professionalism from the roster makers, as well as the contributors. It was that, the maturity of the whole community that YANKED me away from IGN 2K message boards. ... but in this thread alone, this is starting to look more and more like IGN. So let's allow cooler heads to prevail. Because as grown men, ALL of the REAL LIFE responsibilities that we maintain daily, we all just look like petty little girls the way we are taking this Videogame WAY TOO SERIOUSLY.

p.s. No beef guys, I'm the neutral guy.

[CerebrumMusica]

Re: Using OTHER people's work

It's a tough situation, vtcrb. Anytime you make something available to be shared amongst the public, others have the free will to use it as they please.

I can understand why it would be frustrating to have your hard work passed off by someone else as their own, and getting credit for something they don't deserve. But, you don't make rosters for the credit! You make them for yourself, and lucky for us, you share them with us.

When you put as much time and work into a project as massive as yours, I am sure you are extremely attached to and proud of your work, as you should be. So I understand why you would get angry at the whole situation of "stealing".

If there is one thing that I have learned the past few days, especially with the release of NCAA Football and the rosters for that game, is that OS is not an easy place for roster makers. Quite a lot of members here lack respect and understanding when it comes to what guys like you actually do for us.

Don't let the few bad things get you down. Just remember how many people are out there that appreciate what you do quite a lot, and those people far outweigh the few bad apples that are in every batch.

Keep up the great work.

[Eaglerock562]

Re: Using OTHER people's work

I'll be the first to say that after a few days I have had time to cool down and after reading throughout the thread I realize that in my first post on this thread I was a little out of line in general, but it was not towards any of the members of the community that I have befriended and gotten to know and to those who have messaged me from time to time when they needed my assistance on something. I am more then willing to help out anyone on here that is as passionate about the game as I am, but if I was asked in regards to someone else's work that I might've assisted on I would out of total moral respect either direct people to that owner or get their permission and go ahead before revealing any information that is asked.

I do agree with a few of the posts above me that we are all or at least a majority of us are GROWN MEN and ADULTS and as we have grown up over the years from the days of the original Nintendo and Sega to the PS2 & 3's and the XBOX 360 consoles as well as the Wii and always the PC we have been blessed to see how sports games were back in the day and the way they have evolved today. I'm sure we all remember TECMO Super Bowl for Nintendo, I sure do. Every sunday during the NFL season I would wake up at 7 am and I would go through a full 16 game schedule and playoffs while watching the NFL on tv and that would be my sunday ritual. We can remember Tony LaRussa baseball on the PC, I love that game, that was the best back in the day, I would play a full 162 game schedule and file away all the boxscores, it was brilliant. And not to leave out Double Dribble which was one of the classic basketball games of all time, I would play that game til midnight sometimes.

Now going from those games to 2K and EA sports games we have more ability and been given more control over the game by the developers and yes after working months and months on a few rosters along with my own personal one I would feel a little slighted to know that my hard work, while voluntary was being passed off by someone else as their work. We all have one common goal with these games, especially with NBA 2K11, 2K12 and soon 2K13 and that is to get the best possible game experience out of the game that we payed $60 for. And while a percentage of people aren't fortunate enough to access things online, or have access to certain computer programs that are used to edit the game on our own, I am certain it is those people who truly respect and appreciate all the work that we as roster makers and contributors do in getting a certain type of gameplay out of the game.

In conclusion I don't think it was in the very least much to ask that if you do happen to use a custom roster as a base for your very own a shout out or a plug for the originator isn't out of line.

So I hope we can all get on the right page and let's all remember that in the end we all have the same common goal and that is to get the best game experience out of the game.

[cmebfresh]

Re: Using OTHER people's work

why do people steal i don't get it. i had that happen to me on ps3 with my rosters

[VDusen04]

Re: Using OTHER people's work

Original post was on point but the rest of the thread is shameful. vt you are making yourself look quite childish. You know you were talking down to that Cowboys poster after he politely stated his opinion. Then you had the nerve to bring up respect? Somehow creating these rosters seems to have given certain posters a sense of superiority over the rest of the community. I'm not talking about this aspect of using others' work - you have the right to be upset. But seriously, try to tone down the condescending attitude please roster makers...you know who you are.

FYI I've never posted others' work so no, this thread didn't strike a nerve. I've been using the OG Sim-World project for a base to make changes for personal preference, I just have no desire to upload it since my contributions are a VERY minor portion of the project.

Right on. Sentiments entirely echoed. I'm not a big roster uploader (though I do believe I uploaded a few classic "year" rosters in 2K11) but I know full well once I put anything out there on 2KShare, it's fair game. Similarly, I've uploaded NBA clips on YouTube and had those copied just as well. Surely, it's initially a weird feeling, seeing my "work" attached to someone else's name, but I knew that was going to happen before I even started. The YouTube NBA clips certainly aren't mine and just the same, anything I modify on NBA2K isn't mine, it's merely me toggling things that belong to the NBA, so it's really not my place to have an issue when other folks do with these files what they please.

With that said, there's no doubt that I agree with the premise of it being polite to cite the work of others. For instance, one thing I began to do for myself this year was create a 1995 roster. I went about 17 teams deep before I lost interest upon the release of portlandblazer's matchup roster. For my '95 roster, I used one of the rosters here as a base (I believe the SuperLeague) due to its high number of mid-90's players present. I think that's the whole point of 2KShare. People provide things. People download them. People do with them what they please (in my case, it was turning them into a 1995 roster).

From a personal standpoint, I've always felt it was proper to ask my source and/or cite them upon uploading, but I don't think it's gross misconduct if others choose not to do so. The whole reason I ever choose to share my rosters in the first place is because I think others may be able to benefit from their existence. It's not a "Hey look at me!" situation, it's a "Hey! Look at this!" thing. And if, by some stroke of unlikely genius, I uploaded a full 1995 roster and it was very well received, I'd be very open to it being copied and re-upped. That'd be the whole point. I'd upload a roster so all the people who want that kind of roster can have that kind of roster. If 5 people copy and re-up my roster, I feel as though that'd just mean there'd be more access to 1995, which is great for everyone looking for a 1995 roster. In that case, I'd have made a positive contribution. Everyone wins.

As the slightest of asides, I have to agree with the condescension being a poor look. I admire the work of many of the roster makers on this site and the work itself is mostly what matters, but when I feel like I'm being talked down to, as petty as it may sound, it sort of makes me not respect the work as much while reducing the likelihood of me downloading the file. I much prefer the posters who seem to just generally get a kick out of creating something great that can be used by others, as opposed to the ones who try to sell their work ("BeSt ROSTer Evver! Come QUIck!"), where making a name seems to be more important than the work itself.

[NBA Bound25]

Re: Using OTHER people's work

I used one of vtcrb's rosters as a base because I didn't have rookie cyberfaces on my roster at the time during the first couple of months of the NBA season. Do I feel kinda bad for not asking him if I could use it as a base and not giving credit? Yea a little bit but I changed almost every players' ratings completely and I added a whole bunch of D-League players. Also once you do upload to 2k share, its basically fair game for everybody else. I've had someone do that to me back on 2k10 or 2k11 (I forget which) but I didn't make a big deal about it because I uploaded onto 2k share and there are probably other people doing it too. Its called 2k share for a reason. I'm neutral on this because though I feel a little bad for not asking vtcrb if I could use his roster as a base since he's big here on OS, there are a whole bunch of other people on Xbox doing the same thing.

[gausec]

Re: Using OTHER people's work

Right on. Sentiments entirely echoed. I'm not a big roster uploader (though I do believe I uploaded a few classic "year" rosters in 2K11) but I know full well once I put anything out there on 2KShare, it's fair game. Similarly, I've uploaded NBA clips on YouTube and had those copied just as well. Surely, it's initially a weird feeling, seeing my "work" attached to someone else's name, but I knew that was going to happen before I even started. The YouTube NBA clips certainly aren't mine and just the same, anything I modify on NBA2K isn't mine, it's merely me toggling things that belong to the NBA, so it's really not my place to have an issue when other folks do with these files what they please.

With that said, there's no doubt that I agree with the premise of it being polite to cite the work of others. For instance, one thing I began to do for myself this year was create a 1995 roster. I went about 17 teams deep before I lost interest upon the release of portlandblazer's matchup roster. For my '95 roster, I used one of the rosters here as a base (I believe the SuperLeague) due to its high number of mid-90's players present. I think that's the whole point of 2KShare. People provide things. People download them. People do with them what they please (in my case, it was turning them into a 1995 roster).

From a personal standpoint, I've always felt it was proper to ask my source and/or cite them upon uploading, but I don't think it's gross misconduct if others choose not to do so. The whole reason I ever choose to share my rosters in the first place is because I think others may be able to benefit from their existence. It's not a "Hey look at me!" situation, it's a "Hey! Look at this!" thing. And if, by some stroke of unlikely genius, I uploaded a full 1995 roster and it was very well received, I'd be very open to it being copied and re-upped. That'd be the whole point. I'd upload a roster so all the people who want that kind of roster can have that kind of roster. If 5 people copy and re-up my roster, I feel as though that'd just mean there'd be more access to 1995, which is great for everyone looking for a 1995 roster. In that case, I'd have made a positive contribution. Everyone wins.

As the slightest of asides, I have to agree with the condescension being a poor look. I admire the work of many of the roster makers on this site and the work itself is mostly what matters, but when I feel like I'm being talked down to, as petty as it may sound, it sort of makes me not respect the work as much while reducing the likelihood of me downloading the file. I much prefer the posters who seem to just generally get a kick out of creating something great that can be used by others, as opposed to the ones who try to sell their work ("BeSt ROSTer Evver! Come QUIck!"), where making a name seems to be more important than the work itself.

I think to everyone's defense everyone was rilled up that night. And while I see what your saying about the roster makers and how they treat you impact if you would download. I would disagree I know a lot of makers that are arrogant but still make great work. Huylan made rude remarks but I'm sure you will download his caps. I think of it like cell phones Steve Job's was arrogant but helped deliver some of the greatest pieces of technology we have saw. Just my two cents

[VDusen04]

Re: Using OTHER people's work

And while I see what your saying about the roster makers and how they treat you impact if you would download. I would disagree I know a lot of makers that are arrogant but still make great work. Huylan made rude remarks but I'm sure you will download his caps.

Yeah, perhaps you are correct. However, acting in an unbecoming manner still resonates poorly in my regard. And, since a fair amount of this discussion seems to be based off of recognition (or the lack thereof), I feel condescension toward the folks downloading the works of others is only going to create a poor perception of the person creating the work in the first place.

If all a person cares about is getting great rosters out to the public, then they're more or less free to act however they see fit. However, if they're most interested in praise and recognition, I'm not sure this is the best way to go about it.

[gausec]

Re: Using OTHER people's work

Yeah, perhaps you are correct. However, acting in an unbecoming manner still resonates poorly in my regard. And, since a fair amount of this discussion seems to be based off of recognition (or the lack thereof), I feel condescension toward the folks downloading the works of others is only going to create a poor perception of the person creating the work in the first place.

If all a person cares about is getting great rosters out to the public, then they're more or less free to act however they see fit. However, if they're most interested in praise and recognition, I'm not sure this is the best way to go about it.

I see your point as well but once again will say EVERYONE was riled up. And that Vtcrb is a stand up guy.. Could he had have gotten his point using a different tone? Maybe. But when caught up in the moment sometimes you don't care how you sound, you just want your opinion heard.