The Purist(s) NBA 2K11 Sliders (Post-Patch)

[Mourf]

Re: The Purist(s) NBA 2K11 Sliders (Post-Patch)

ok, no problem ! :wink:

I've put the Off Awar. at 88 for both cause on the court i've found the game of cpu not enough "airy" (not sure of traduction for airy) and I've hoped it will be more pleasant . I will play an entier game at 68 for see, I'm probably wrong.

[greenieblue]

Re: The Purist(s) NBA 2K11 Sliders (Post-Patch)

ok, no problem ! :wink:

I've put the Off Awar. at 88 for both cause on the court i've found the game of cpu not enough "airy" (not sure of traduction for airy) and I've hoped it will be more pleasant . I will play an entier game at 68 for see, I'm probably wrong.

Open? (As in opening up space on the floor?)


Cool.

Yeah, I'd recommend staying within the 68-75 range. (75 is a little nuts, imo. Impressive but nuts.)

[Mourf]

Re: The Purist(s) NBA 2K11 Sliders (Post-Patch)

yeah,

Airy / Open ...

Will try with 75 I think .

Thx

[Dean3790]

Re: The Purist(s) NBA 2K11 Sliders (Post-Patch)

Greenie, your TO numbers are a little off. The 2010 turnovers per game average ranges from 12.5 (UTA) to 16.8 (MIN). Plus, the average of all of the team averages comes out to 14.02. So for the turnovers per game to be realistic, we should, after about 10 games, when all of the turnover numbers are added from all the teams (ensuring different teams are used, I won't get into the hardcore stats of it but 10 games with different teams each game should be close) it should be 14.

The numbers are here http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/turnovers-per-game

In most iterations of this set, the turnover numbers have been consistently higher than 14 per team per game. Sure, SOME games could have 20+, but the vast majority of games should be under significantly under 20 per team. If we have games where there are 25 turnovers for a team, we should also have games that have 4 or 5 turnovers for a team. I have never seen a team have under 10 TO's with these settings.

I appreciate the work and everything, don't think I'm bashing this set because it is awesome. But if you think (and I agree) that turnovers are so crucial, we really should make sure we have the numbers right.

[DoubleJ13]

Re: The Purist(s) NBA 2K11 Sliders (Post-Patch)

You'll probably have to set rotations & situationals to keep end of bench guys getting in the game & even then fouls would probably force some time anyway from guys. Or you could set the subs to be done manually.

[Dean3790]

Re: The Purist(s) NBA 2K11 Sliders (Post-Patch)

Another thing: if you are using Geebo's rosters, you need to put Dunking Ability back at 50. If it is at 37, which it is listed here, no one with mediocre dunk ratings that can and does dunk IRL (D. Rose, for example) will ever dunk.

This is because Geebo included Dunk Package edits which ALREADY LOWERED DUNK RATINGS FOR INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS. So guys who can't dunk have their ratings lowered so they cannot dunk in any context. It's all here:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AnH_XtYnwBUbdDg4eGFqT1EtTFh3aFR6cXFsWFk1MHc&hl=en#gid=0

So, once again, if you are using Geebo's roster, keep the Dunking Ability slider at 50.

[greenieblue]

Re: The Purist(s) NBA 2K11 Sliders (Post-Patch)

Greenie, your TO numbers are a little off. The 2010 turnovers per game average ranges from 12.5 (UTA) to 16.8 (MIN). Plus, the average of all of the team averages comes out to 14.02. So for the turnovers per game to be realistic, we should, after about 10 games, when all of the turnover numbers are added from all the teams (ensuring different teams are used, I won't get into the hardcore stats of it but 10 games with different teams each game should be close) it should be 14.

The numbers are here http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/turnovers-per-game

In most iterations of this set, the turnover numbers have been consistently higher than 14 per team per game. Sure, SOME games could have 20+, but the vast majority of games should be under significantly under 20 per team. If we have games where there are 25 turnovers for a team, we should also have games that have 4 or 5 turnovers for a team. I have never seen a team have under 10 TO's with these settings.

I appreciate the work and everything, don't think I'm bashing this set because it is awesome. But if you think (and I agree) that turnovers are so crucial, we really should make sure we have the numbers right.

http://hoopdata.com/teamstats.aspx

The key is, you were going for on-ball steals. Something specifically advised against on the first page. I have never seen a CPU opponent above 20. Not once. My CPU opponents are usually in the 10-15 range on TO's. Frankly, this is too low. It will not produce 14 avg over 82 games. You need 20's to reach a 14 avg. Hell, you need 29's.

You act like I guessed my way to a set. The set was informed greatly by statistics, understanding of the game, watching the game for 15+ years, reading about the game for as long, etc.

You also act like I sold you a video game, that you would now like me to patch. Neither is true. No one needs to use the sliders. And as far as to's go, it's (again) two ****ing sliders. Not very difficult to eliminate them.

[greenieblue]

Re: The Purist(s) NBA 2K11 Sliders (Post-Patch)

Another thing: if you are using Geebo's rosters, you need to put Dunking Ability back at 50. If it is at 37, which it is listed here, no one with mediocre dunk ratings that can and does dunk IRL (D. Rose, for example) will ever dunk.

This is because Geebo included Dunk Package edits which ALREADY LOWERED DUNK RATINGS FOR INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS. So guys who can't dunk have their ratings lowered so they cannot dunk in any context. It's all here:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AnH_XtYnwBUbdDg4eGFqT1EtTFh3aFR6cXFsWFk1MHc&hl=en#gid=0

So, once again, if you are using Geebo's roster, keep the Dunking Ability slider at 50.

D Rose doesn't dunk often, he throws up floaters.

"He doesn’t help out much on the boards and is a little too
good at avoiding contact when he drives the lane. This latter aspect is most germane to Rose improving his
efficiency. He gets into the lane, then hangs and twists to throw up miraculous-looking shots and avoid defenders.
That looks good on the highlight reel, but Rose would be better off just attacking the rim, something he’s
become more adept at doing."

Basketball Prospectus 2010-11.

http://www.82games.com/1011/10CHI3.HTM

2% of his shots are dunks.

[Dean3790]

Re: The Purist(s) NBA 2K11 Sliders (Post-Patch)

Yes but he still should have the ability to dunk. With dunking ability at 37, a lot of the guys that are edited in Geebo's set (Boozer, Noah) won't dunk because their abilities have been lowered to 55 in the roster settings themselves and this is compounded with the slider.

Basically, the dunk edits were done with default sliders in mind. So combining that when not using default sliders, you are making guys who can dunk unable to dunk. If we left the default 2k roster ratings (D Rose, for example, has a 70 rating when in Geebo's he has a 55) we would need the dunking ability slider at 37. It has nothing to do with how often he dunks anyway, it is the fact that he can dunk.

Also, with the attempt dunks sliders at 11, the guys who dunk rarely do dunk rarely (at least I think they do).

As for turnovers, we have different information but it's only a difference of .7. That's not much. Everything I said still holds.

[greenieblue]

Re: The Purist(s) NBA 2K11 Sliders (Post-Patch)

Yes but he still should have the ability to dunk. With dunking ability at 37, a lot of the guys that are edited in Geebo's set (Boozer, Noah) won't dunk because their abilities have been lowered to 55 in the roster settings themselves and this is compounded with the slider.

Basically, the dunk edits were done with default sliders in mind. So combining that when not using default sliders, you are making guys who can dunk unable to dunk. If we left the default 2k roster ratings (D Rose, for example, has a 70 rating when in Geebo's he has a 55) we would need the dunking ability slider at 37. It has nothing to do with how often he dunks anyway, it is the fact that he can dunk.

Also, with the attempt dunks sliders at 11, the guys who dunk rarely do dunk rarely (at least I think they do).

As for turnovers, we have different information but it's only a difference of .7. That's not much. Everything I said still holds.

It doesn't hold because I ran a 30 game test with the sliders above (that is hands 79, pass acc 44) the current settings and the CPU avg was 10.7. The max was 18. This is not realistic. But I placated because the human experience was not enjoyable. TO's, again, are too low. If you restrict yourself from going for on-ball steals (which happen rarely in the NBA) the CPU has zero chance of reaching 20.

Is the weakness of the philosophy behind the set that I refuse to have separate settings for hum/cpu? Possibly. But then why not just edit two sliders (or three including the dunk setting) and release Dean's slider set?

The ability to dunk is not the problem. The problem is that "Dunk Ability" influences the likelihood that players will dunk, and the variants thereof. Given that D. Rose (kudos to Geebo for seeing this) rarely dunks, his dunk ability should be low. 37 Universal Dunk Ability is meant to limit the types of dunks that players perform and also to limit the the players who will dunk-- 3-4 dunks per game in 07-08.

Look, I don't mind having a heated debate. But why do people keep saying, "Change your slider set for me"? The beauty of not being 2k, is that I can say, "Nope". That's also the beauty of my clearly not trying to parlay this into anything. I did it for the love of basketball (and statistics a little), and not to impress a community, a company or individuals.

There are other sets (A&S, Punt), other qualified people (you, obviously), try them & hate them & move on. Or tweak to your play style. Or use 99% of the set and make your own and post them. I'm sure people would appreciate that, since I've mostly moved on with my life.

[Dean3790]

Re: The Purist(s) NBA 2K11 Sliders (Post-Patch)

Greenie I'm not trying to offend you at all and I think you are being a little defensive. I have no problem admitting I was wrong with the turnovers and I see your point. That's fine. You did a ****ing awesome job and I was just trying to be frank in pointing stuff out. I just want to help you reach the best conclusion possible. I'm not saying I could do any better at all, but it was something I thought I should mention.

As for the dunks though, didn't Geebo lower the Dunk tendency? Rose's dunk tendency is a 2. The attempt dunk slider is 11. But if I am playing as the Bulls and I get a fast break with Rose and want to dunk (which he does on occasion, I mean he has his own dunk package in the game) it is only realistic for the option to be there. The tendency of the actual player is a 2, so i can virtually guarantee the CPU will almost never pull off dunks as him. No?

[Atlanta]

Re: The Purist(s) NBA 2K11 Sliders (Post-Patch)

why you bein so sensitive greenie? people are just providing feedback, you seem a little defensive whenever someone says something against one of your fans is providing feedback... if you upped the passing ability by a couple points it would make a huge margin helping with the unrealistic and negative effects of the turnovers. that's just my opinion, i've been getting realistic turnovers ever since raising it by 2, 3 points forget which.

[greenieblue]

Re: The Purist(s) NBA 2K11 Sliders (Post-Patch)

Greenie I'm not trying to offend you at all and I think you are being a little defensive. I have no problem admitting I was wrong with the turnovers and I see your point. That's fine. You did a ****ing awesome job and I was just trying to be frank in pointing stuff out. I just want to help you reach the best conclusion possible. I'm not saying I could do any better at all, but it was something I thought I should mention.

As for the dunks though, didn't Geebo lower the Dunk tendency? Rose's dunk tendency is a 2. The attempt dunk slider is 11. But if I am playing as the Bulls and I get a fast break with Rose and want to dunk (which he does on occasion, I mean he has his own dunk package in the game) it is only realistic for the option to be there. The tendency of the actual player is a 2, so i can virtually guarantee the CPU will almost never pull off dunks as him. No?

I'm sorry, Dean. I guess what frustrates me is that I don't feel like I've done anything at all (especially w/ the move to AS, since the only other thing I figured out was shooting % by location on the floor-- ruined w/ the move to AS) and that the set is pure hype, except finding the perfectly palatable TO solution. I took a game that averages 7 TO's on default and doubled that; nearly driving myself insane in the process. To me, there is zero else to separate the set from any other set.

I'm also not saying, "Do it better if you think you can", because this isn't difficult. All the complicated formulas, I copied off the web. All the info is available on the web. This is child's play. Anyone can do this. It just takes an idea and the ignorance to then stuff round pegs in square holes and say they fit. It takes wanting to see whatever it is you are seeing. It's marketing, hype, bs, networking, etc. In other words, you can do it better.

NBA 2k makes nothing clear (except perhaps player's shot tendencies, since the 4 have to equal 100), so I know nothing. If anyone wants to run with my set and do their own thing please do. And please don't even credit me.

Obviously, Dean, if you look back through the thread, I am not just talking about you (and not you either ATL). It's just the repeated indication that this is some ****ing fantasy world that drives me crazy. And, of course, the wont to argue with the history of the NBA.

[greenieblue]

Re: The Purist(s) NBA 2K11 Sliders (Post-Patch)

why you bein so sensitive greenie? people are just providing feedback, you seem a little defensive whenever someone says something against one of your fans is providing feedback... if you upped the passing ability by a couple points it would make a huge margin helping with the unrealistic and negative effects of the turnovers. that's just my opinion, i've been getting realistic turnovers ever since raising it by 2, 3 points forget which.

Dude, seriously, why the hell are you my fan? That's weird. That's exactly why I'm sensitive.

Be my friend or hate me or ignore my existence. Treat me like I had 10 posts. But please, a fan (or enemy, for that matter) of me or the set?! Why?!

Look, I'm sorry, you're probably young (?), but don't be a fan of some loser who decided to sit in his house for a month, throwing his life away, living a video game. Be a fan of Lars Von Trier, Tristan Tzara, Celine, Alfred Hitchcock, Matisse, Picasso, Andre Breton, Valery, Rilke, Nietzsche, Lil Wayne, etc. Not me. I'm a loser without a life.

[ewing6]

Re: The Purist(s) NBA 2K11 Sliders (Post-Patch)

Been busy lately, so I just got to play on all-star(if you updated the coach profiles in the last 2 sets I didnt do them) The 8-1 Wiz went to Boston to take on the 2-8 Celtics and won 95-94. It was back and forth all game untill I stormed to take a 10 point lead late 3rd/early 4, they fought back and it was close and it came down to the last seconds as Waall hit a stepback jumper over Wal for the lead and then strong defense forced Rondo to take the last shot, a 3 and he missed and i got the broad and the win!

Wiz/Tics
Fied Goals: 35-70(50%)/42-92(45%)
3's: 4-17(23%)/ 3-7(42%)
Free Throws: 21-25(84%)/7-12(58%)
assists: 22/25
turnovers: 21/13
rebounds: 36(3 off.)/35(5 off.) bit almaring here
steals: 12/16
blocks: 13/1
PIP: 42/44
bench: 29/28
2nd chance: 0/10
fast break: 6/16

Key Players:
Beaubois 18 points 1 steal
Nick Young 15 points 1 1 block
Wall 15 points 11 assists 1 steal 1 block

Pierce 27 points 5 broads 2 steals 1 block
allen 18 points
rondo 11 points 12 assists 5 steals 9 tos