Sim-World Roster Project Sliders - CPU/CPU and Player Lock

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Sim-World Roster Project Sliders - CPU/CPU and Player Lock

I've been watching a few more games with this slider set (and also watching the Suns play in real life) and I must say that these rosters and sliders are pretty dang accurate.

Regarding the Suns, in terms of how players play on the court, I'd say the biggest difference I've noticed is how Nash (and the screener) plays on the pick and roll (as I've stated before). With these rosters (and plays) I don't feel that Nash gets into the lane enough to wreak havoc on the defense (pull up jumper, dish to the perimeter/rolling big man, attack the basket), and also that the roller never seems to roll to the basket. I know you mentioned that there are some different play types that are better for rolls to the basket, so I'm looking forward to the upcoming updated roster set to see how this is impacted.

Also, with Grant Hill, one thing is he seems to shoot too many 3s (which I stated before), but also, in real life he tends to do a lot of off the dribble pull up jumpers. I've seem him do this occasionally with these rosters, but not as often as in real life (most of his jumpers in 2K come off of catch-and-shoot passes).

Hope this feedback is helpful. I'm really looking forward to testing the new rosters/association file with the updated playbooks!

Absolutely helpful! Believe me that the Suns were already on the top of the priority list when it came to expanded playbooks. Some of the new P&R plays being added to their playbook will have a huge impact on the way Nash runs their offense. vannwolfhawk has been putting in some serious research and testing to get the right plays added.

For an example, check out DAL Heat Killer Dbl in the Mavericks playbook. That kind of roll action is currently missing from the Suns playbook. That play also has a nice fade option for the PF.

Grant Hill's drop in 3PT tendency will get him into more pull-up scenarios, especially in the Mid-Range area. I'm sorry this was off in the current release. I think he'll still end up shooting slightly more 3PT attempts than he does in real life because of the Suns coach profile but not as many as he's taking now.

[hurdinator]

Re: Sim-World Roster Project Sliders - CPU/CPU and Player Lock

youALREADYknow

How far away do you think you are from coach mode sliders V2.

Don't take this as pressure. I realise the roster updates are time consuming as well.

Having played another 8 games I have not noticed any more glaring problems.

Do you still think the difficulty rating affects the human controlled side? I'm not so sure anymore. I have a feeling it is down to how well you control the tempo and shuffle coaching duties.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Sim-World Roster Project Sliders - CPU/CPU and Player Lock

youALREADYknow

How far away do you think you are from coach mode sliders V2.

Don't take this as pressure. I realise the roster updates are time consuming as well.

Having played another 8 games I have not noticed any more glaring problems.

Do you still think the difficulty rating affects the human controlled side? I'm not so sure anymore. I have a feeling it is down to how well you control the tempo and shuffle coaching duties.

I saw consistent imbalances in rebounding and turnover statistics that lead me to believe that there is a difficulty aspect to the game while in Coach Mode. The changes made to balance the game back out won't be major in scale and are limited to a select few sliders.

New sliders will be released tomorrow! We're going to have 3 Slider sets now: one for Player Lock, one for Coach Mode, and one for CPU/CPU. As before, the Player Lock sliders could be used for regular User/CPU games.

[hurdinator]

Re: Sim-World Roster Project Sliders - CPU/CPU and Player Lock

I saw consistent imbalances in rebounding and turnover statistics that lead me to believe that there is a difficulty aspect to the game while in Coach Mode. The changes made to balance the game back out won't be major in scale and are limited to a select few sliders.

New sliders will be released tomorrow! We're going to have 3 Slider sets now: one for Player Lock, one for Coach Mode, and one for CPU/CPU. As before, the Player Lock sliders could be used for regular User/CPU games.

Getting excited!!!!

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Sim-World Roster Project Sliders - CPU/CPU and Player Lock

Sim-World Coach Mode v1 sliders are up on 2KShare.

Not too many changes made to the original CPU/CPU sliders.

Off/Def Rebounding changed to create more offensive rebounds and more User rebounds.
Contest Shot raised slightly.
Attempt Dunk lowered to play more true to tendencies.
Blocking Foul Frequency raised to get more fouls on dribble penetration and driving shots.
Shooting Foul Frequency raised to get more shooting fouls.
Inside Contact Shot Frequency raised to create more contested shots in the paint.
Quickness slightly lowered to reduce sliding.
Injury Frequency lowered to reduce number of injuries.
Injury Severity lowered to reduce injury duration.
Take Close Shots lowered to get a more realistic shot distribution.

[hurdinator]

Re: Sim-World Roster Project Sliders - CPU/CPU and Player Lock

Sim-World Coach Mode v1 sliders are up on 2KShare.

Not too many changes made to the original CPU/CPU sliders.

Off/Def Rebounding changed to create more offensive rebounds and more User rebounds.
Contest Shot raised slightly.
Attempt Dunk lowered to play more true to tendencies.
Blocking Foul Frequency raised to get more fouls on dribble penetration and driving shots.
Shooting Foul Frequency raised to get more shooting fouls.
Inside Contact Shot Frequency raised to create more contested shots in the paint.
Quickness slightly lowered to reduce sliding.
Injury Frequency lowered to reduce number of injuries.
Injury Severity lowered to reduce injury duration.
Take Close Shots lowered to get a more realistic shot distribution.

First game with the new coach mode sliders:

Nuggets(me) away to Pacers

Overtime.

104/106
FG% 41/43
fouls 16/18
Total rebounds 45/49
off rebounds 9/10

This looked like it was going to be an epic fail for the Nuggets going behind by 15 at one point in the 2nd Q. However the game ebded and flowed until late in the 3rd when the nuggets went on a 14-2 run. overtime produced a few impossible looking shots from the Pacers, including a 10ft turn around fadeaway jumper by a PG being double teamed by a PG and a PF.

I think the foul sliders are just about spot on now. Much more realistic spread of fouls. Much more action in the paint with fouls from contested shots.

The rebounding is good. Offensive rebounds are more common and the CPU does not seem to have any discernable advantage.

I feel the shooting sliders are now tuned better.
I still had the occasional "why did my guy miss an uncontested 3pt and next, at the other end of the floor, his guy hit the same shot 2 feet outside with constant pressure" moment. However, overall players generally made shots when they should have and missed when pressured.

Less dunks, but the sliders now see players pull them off better, even in traffic which is more realistic.

I looked at the telemetry of shot areas and there were more close shots missed forcing players to take more mid range jumpers. I believe this was the slider plan to better match real world stats?

I know its only one game, but I saw a more even spread of scoring across the nuggets starters which is true to form. This is good because in previous tests Afflalo and Gallinari were not generally reaching last seasons averages, let alone scoring highly.

1 injury-shoulder strain. No big deal.

Overall, a close game, exciting game. Fairly realistic game.

I'll play more games and update if anything comes up that is too dodgy.

[bbb20098]

Re: Sim-World Roster Project Sliders - CPU/CPU and Player Lock

I can not find your sliders or roster in 2kshare. I really want to try them out they look real good. I play coach mode all the time and im looking for a good set. thanks

[hurdinator]

Re: Sim-World Roster Project Sliders - CPU/CPU and Player Lock

I can not find your sliders or roster in 2kshare. I really want to try them out they look real good. I play coach mode all the time and im looking for a good set. thanks

1. The roster is a first version that will have an update that is association ready in "a few weeks" Look for SIM WORLD ROSTER on 2K share.

2. The sliders in this thread are actually 3 different versions. Player lock, CPU v CPU and coach mode. THESE SLIDERS ARE SPECIFICALLY FOR USE WITH THE SIM WORLD ROSTER. The roster has been completely overhauled (see sim world roster project thread ) to be as close to reality as possible. For these sliders it is easier to look up youALREADYknow's gamertag on 2K share; mcflurry84. All three new sets are there.

Trust me. These coach mode sliders along with the roster are the bomb!

[The C Unit]

Re: Sim-World Roster Project Sliders - CPU/CPU and Player Lock

youALREADYknow,

Would you mind posting the updated sliders on the forum? I'd love to test them out, but I don't have Xbox Live...

[hurdinator]

Re: Sim-World Roster Project Sliders - CPU/CPU and Player Lock

Game 2 with updated coach mode sliders

Suns away to Nuggets(me)

111/109
fg 97/87
fg% 45/45
3pt% 31/51
fts 14/21 15/21
asst 25/20
to 5/7
fouls 14/13
rb 58/46
offrb 18/10
stl 5/5
blk 6/3
fb pts 20/16

Q1

A good start for both teams with the difference being Afflalo and Gallinari shooting out the lights from beyond the arc. 23/33 Denver.

Q2

Both teams on fire shooting 56%/52%. Suns get to the line a few more times to bring score close at half time 58/61 Denver.

Q3

Suns suddenly start getting offensive rebounds like they have magnetised hands. 6 in the Q! Denver turns ball over a few times but gets to the charity stripe more. FG 20/22. Gortat is a rebounding and scoring machine by this point 19 pts, 9 rbnds.

Q4

Nuggets hit a cold streak (again). Suns leap to the lead on the back of Hill shooting 3 after 3 and 5 more offensive rebounds. (This despite Denver in constant def pressure and two rebounding bigs for most of the Q (Nene and Anderson). Suns are lights out from the floor(52% FG and 55% 3s).

Nuggets pull within 2 in the last 2 mins on the back of Miller isos and Nene in the post getting fouled. Not enough in the end as the Suns squeek an away win.

I found myself shouting at the TV several times which is usually a sign of one of two things. 1. Frustration at superhuman shots now and then shouting "No! No! That would never happen! Cheating ****ing CPU!" or, 2. Getting totally engrossed in what has become a thoroughly enjoyable game, at last, shouting "No! No! I cant believe that happened...but it so would happen and it was awesome!". Mostly the latter.

I was not so sure about the rebounding this time. Phoenix seemed to rebound beyond what they would normally be capable of: Warrick 11, Gortat 10. Not so bad, but the bench also seemed to get a lot and Nash got 7! Nash! WTF!

Other than that these sliders seem to be on the mark again.

Bed time...It's 1am

[kongemeier]

Re: Sim-World Roster Project Sliders - CPU/CPU and Player Lock

So, I wanted to see what Coach Mode is all about so I gave it a try! It was VERY funny and intense yelling at the screen when my players didn't do what I wanted them to do!

Anyway, here we go:

<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" /><link href="http://dynasties.operationsports.com/css/osdyn.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"></head><body><table cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" class="osdyn" width="575"><tr class="masthead"><td align="center" colspan="6">Dallas Mavericks at Utah Jazz</td></tr><tr class="stathead"><td width="48%">Jan 19, 2012</td><td align="right" width="10%">1ST</td><td align="right" width="10%">2ND</td><td align="right" width="10%">3RD</td><td align="right" width="10%">4TH</td><td align="right" width="12%">SCORE</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td>Dallas (CPU)</td><td align="right">21</td><td align="right">28</td><td align="right">22</td><td align="right">33</td><td align="right" class="active">104</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td>Utah (USER)</td><td align="right">28</td><td align="right">19</td><td align="right">23</td><td align="right">18</td><td align="right" class="active">88</td></tr></table><table cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" class="osdyn spacer" width="575"><tr class="masthead_alt"><td bgcolor="#006BB7" colspan="11"><span style="color:#FFFFFF;">Dallas Mavericks</span></td></tr><tr class="stathead"><td width="29%">STARTERS</td><td align="right" width="6%">MIN</td><td align="right" width="10%">FGM-A</td><td align="right" width="10%">3PM-A</td><td align="right" width="10%">FTM-A</td><td align="right" width="6%">REB</td><td align="right" width="6%">AST</td><td align="right" width="6%">STL</td><td align="right" width="6%">BLK</td><td align="right" width="5%">TO</td><td align="right" width="6%">PTS</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td>J. Kidd</td><td align="right">35</td><td align="right">5-13</td><td align="right">0-3</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">6</td><td align="right">11</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right" class="active">10</td></tr><tr class="evenrow"><td>De. West</td><td align="right">28</td><td align="right">4-7</td><td align="right">0-3</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right" class="active">8</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td>S. Marion</td><td align="right">32</td><td align="right">11-17</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">4-6</td><td align="right">10</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right" class="active">26</td></tr><tr class="evenrow"><td>D. Nowitzki</td><td align="right">33</td><td align="right">8-12</td><td align="right">2-2</td><td align="right">3-4</td><td align="right">13</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right" class="active">21</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td>B. Haywood</td><td align="right">24</td><td align="right">2-3</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">7</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right" class="active">4</td></tr><tr class="stathead"><td width="29%">BENCH</td><td align="right" width="6%">MIN</td><td align="right" width="10%">FGM-A</td><td align="right" width="10%">3PM-A</td><td align="right" width="10%">FTM-A</td><td align="right" width="6%">REB</td><td align="right" width="6%">AST</td><td align="right" width="6%">STL</td><td align="right" width="6%">BLK</td><td align="right" width="5%">TO</td><td align="right" width="6%">PTS</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td>J. Terry</td><td align="right">32</td><td align="right">7-17</td><td align="right">0-2</td><td align="right">2-2</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right" class="active">16</td></tr><tr class="evenrow"><td>V. Carter</td><td align="right">11</td><td align="right">5-12</td><td align="right">2-4</td><td align="right">0-3</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right" class="active">12</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td>R. Beaubois</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="right">1-1</td><td align="right">1-1</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right" class="active">3</td></tr><tr class="evenrow"><td>I. Mahinmi</td><td align="right">22</td><td align="right">0-1</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">2-2</td><td align="right">6</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right" class="active">2</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td>L. Odom</td><td align="right">21</td><td align="right">1-4</td><td align="right">0-1</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right" class="active">2</td></tr><tr class="evenrow"><td>B. Cardinal</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">0-2</td><td align="right">0-1</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right" class="active">0</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td>Y. Jianlian</td><td align="center" colspan="10">-- DID NOT PLAY --</td></tr><tr class="stathead"><td align="center" colspan="2">TEAM TOTALS</td><td align="right">44-89</td><td align="right">5-17</td><td align="right">11-17</td><td align="right">54</td><td align="right">28</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="right">104</td></tr></table><table cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" class="osdyn spacer" width="575"><tr class="masthead_alt"><td bgcolor="#042244" colspan="11"><span style="color:#FFFFFF;">Utah Jazz</span></td></tr><tr class="stathead"><td width="29%">STARTERS</td><td align="right" width="6%">MIN</td><td align="right" width="10%">FGM-A</td><td align="right" width="10%">3PM-A</td><td align="right" width="10%">FTM-A</td><td align="right" width="6%">REB</td><td align="right" width="6%">AST</td><td align="right" width="6%">STL</td><td align="right" width="6%">BLK</td><td align="right" width="5%">TO</td><td align="right" width="6%">PTS</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td>D. Harris</td><td align="right">29</td><td align="right">3-9</td><td align="right">0-1</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right" class="active">6</td></tr><tr class="evenrow"><td>R. Bell</td><td align="right">22</td><td align="right">0-4</td><td align="right">0-3</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right" class="active">0</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td>G. Hayward</td><td align="right">28</td><td align="right">1-4</td><td align="right">1-1</td><td align="right">4-6</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right" class="active">7</td></tr><tr class="evenrow"><td>P. Millsap</td><td align="right">35</td><td align="right">8-12</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">9-12</td><td align="right">10</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right" class="active">25</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td>A. Jefferson</td><td align="right">33</td><td align="right">7-17</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">3-6</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right" class="active">17</td></tr><tr class="stathead"><td width="29%">BENCH</td><td align="right" width="6%">MIN</td><td align="right" width="10%">FGM-A</td><td align="right" width="10%">3PM-A</td><td align="right" width="10%">FTM-A</td><td align="right" width="6%">REB</td><td align="right" width="6%">AST</td><td align="right" width="6%">STL</td><td align="right" width="6%">BLK</td><td align="right" width="5%">TO</td><td align="right" width="6%">PTS</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td>C. J. Miles</td><td align="right">23</td><td align="right">6-10</td><td align="right">3-6</td><td align="right">2-2</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right" class="active">17</td></tr><tr class="evenrow"><td>J. Howard</td><td align="right">17</td><td align="right">4-10</td><td align="right">1-1</td><td align="right">1-1</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right" class="active">10</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td>D. Favors</td><td align="right">19</td><td align="right">2-5</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right" class="active">4</td></tr><tr class="evenrow"><td>E. Kanter</td><td align="right">12</td><td align="right">1-2</td><td align="right">0-1</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right" class="active">2</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td>J. Evans</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right" class="active">0</td></tr><tr class="evenrow"><td>A. Burks</td><td align="right">6</td><td align="right">0-1</td><td align="right">0-1</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right" class="active">0</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td>E. Watson</td><td align="right">20</td><td align="right">0-1</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">0-0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">4</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">2</td><td align="right" class="active">0</td></tr><tr class="stathead"><td align="center" colspan="2">TEAM TOTALS</td><td align="right">32-75</td><td align="right">5-14</td><td align="right">19-27</td><td align="right">39</td><td align="right">18</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="right">88</td></tr></table></body></html>

Just like with almost all other sliders and game modes steals and TOs were way too low, but I'm not sure it can be fixed in 2k12 (it's really starting to annoy me though...)

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Sim-World Roster Project Sliders - CPU/CPU and Player Lock

Just like with almost all other sliders and game modes steals and TOs were way too low, but I'm not sure it can be fixed in 2k12 (it's really starting to annoy me though...)

It can be fixed, but only in exchange for the overall gameplay experience being as smooth based on what I'm seeing.

Some statistics just aren't worth the effect on the rest of the game IMO and turnovers were one of them. The very scripted motions of a video game don't lend themselves to reproducing realistic turnover scenarios since most turnovers come from very small mistakes in judgment, ball handling, or passing. The mistakes that lead to turnovers in the game are large and limited to a handful of animations playing out.

Steals and turnovers are going to happen more for teams with poor ball handlers, lower offensive awareness, and lower passing and the Mavs aren't one of those teams. They are probably top 3-5 in the league in those areas. I've seen 10 steals in games against worse offensive teams, only 2-4 steals in other games. It's really hit or miss but until I find a balance that doesn't result in balls sailing out of bounds on chest passes or sticky handed bandits clogging passing lanes then it's going to be tough to justify making the change.

Even fouls don't happen as naturally as they would in a real game and it's hard to get 20+ fouls per game without every drive to the basket resulting in a foul. How many fouls did you see in that game?

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Sim-World Roster Project Sliders - CPU/CPU and Player Lock

youALREADYknow,

Would you mind posting the updated sliders on the forum? I'd love to test them out, but I don't have Xbox Live...

I'll post them later this evening once I get back on my 360.

[kongemeier]

Re: Sim-World Roster Project Sliders - CPU/CPU and Player Lock

It can be fixed, but only in exchange for the overall gameplay experience being as smooth based on what I'm seeing.

Some statistics just aren't worth the effect on the rest of the game IMO and turnovers were one of them. The very scripted motions of a video game don't lend themselves to reproducing realistic turnover scenarios since most turnovers come from very small mistakes in judgment, ball handling, or passing. The mistakes that lead to turnovers in the game are large and limited to a handful of animations playing out.

Steals and turnovers are going to happen more for teams with poor ball handlers, lower offensive awareness, and lower passing and the Mavs aren't one of those teams. They are probably top 3-5 in the league in those areas. I've seen 10 steals in games against worse offensive teams, only 2-4 steals in other games. It's really hit or miss but until I find a balance that doesn't result in balls sailing out of bounds on chest passes or sticky handed bandits clogging passing lanes then it's going to be tough to justify making the change.

Even fouls don't happen as naturally as they would in a real game and it's hard to get 20+ fouls per game without every drive to the basket resulting in a foul. How many fouls did you see in that game?

I didn't write that down, but they were good! Millsap kept attacking Dirk and put him in foul trouble most of the first half!

I understand about the turnovers - it's just really a shame since it's one of the things that decide basketball games. It's a shame that 2K makes the CPU play too much like a "machine".

Btw. I had a more fun coaching than I would've thought! Once you guys finish the roster I might start a franchise trying to coach the Jazz... and get Devin Harris out of Utah The Jazz offense is much better with Watson in at PG (both in the game and in RL). I hope there is a Stockton-ish PG in the custom draft classes you guys are making

[giantsteps]

Re: Sim-World Roster Project Sliders - CPU/CPU and Player Lock

This may be a stupid question, but:

I predominantly use Yellz sliders when I'm playing User v CPU, should I be using your CPU v CPU sliders when I sim games in association mode or does it use the CPU settings for both sides during simming?

Don't hurt me