Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

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  • ActionJack
    Pro
    • Mar 2014
    • 586

    #601
    Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

    And just to be clear, because people really seem to be having a hard time understanding this..

    I never said the percentage of cards selling ISN'T 5%. Hell, it could be 3%, and I wouldn't be shocked.

    All I'm saying is that some guy pulled the 5% number totally out of his ***, and it is INSANE to treat that number like it's real, and try to have substantive conversations around it.

    It's some guy's imagination. That's all that 5% number is, until the day we get a sales report from CD.

    Comment

    • Illmatic1909
      Pro
      • Dec 2014
      • 708

      #602
      Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

      Originally posted by ActionJack
      And just to be clear, because people really seem to be having a hard time understanding this..

      I never said the percentage of cards selling ISN'T 5%. Hell, it could be 3%, and I wouldn't be shocked.

      All I'm saying is that some guy pulled the 5% number totally out of his ***, and it is INSANE to treat that number like it's real, and try to have substantive conversations around it.

      It's some guy's imagination. That's all that 5% number is, until the day we get a sales report from CD.
      We don't care about the auctions that were bought using BIN's. Those were either pre-arranged, or high value and will sell, regardless. We care about the cards that make it to closing time. I guess I should have clarified my 5% number, by saying 5% of all auctions at or near minimum bid make it to closing time with no bid. That number was estimated by analyzing samples of closing auctions from random times times of the day over the course of three days. Because it is an estimate, it can be debated, but please use mathematical analysis instead of just saying, "you can't estimate it." You certainly can.

      Meanwhile, someone who has no knowledge of another auction system can make blanket statements like:

      Originally posted by ActionJack
      If the system you guys are describing in FIFA actually works for both the players and the developer, I'm sure there are large differences in the game itself, or the ecosystem surrounding it, that allow it to work.
      You're right...I'm sure there must be some magic dragon overlooking that auction house to make it successful. We will therefore do no research, and say it's too bad that CD doesn't have their own magic dragon.
      IGN: illmatic1
      Tier: Leg++

      Comment

      • ActionJack
        Pro
        • Mar 2014
        • 586

        #603
        Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

        Originally posted by Illmatic1909
        We don't care about the auctions that were bought using BIN's. Those were either pre-arranged, or high value and will sell, regardless. We care about the cards that make it to closing time. I guess I should have clarified my 5% number, by saying 5% of all auctions at or near minimum bid make it to closing time with no bid. That number was estimated by analyzing samples of closing auctions from random times times of the day over the course of three days. Because it is an estimate, it can be debated, but please use mathematical analysis instead of just saying, "you can't estimate it." You certainly can.

        Meanwhile, someone who has no knowledge of another auction system can make blanket statements like:



        You're right...I'm sure there must be some magic dragon overlooking that auction house to make it successful. We will therefore do no research, and say it's too bad that CD doesn't have their own magic dragon.
        You keep pulling stuff from thin air.

        All BINs are prearranged now? I have prearranged a total of 1 AH transaction, and I've sold a bunch on BIN. Some were high value cards (Lebron, Kyrie) and others weren't (Maravich, Rodman Legend, Rodman Epic Pro). You are making all sorts of statements about actual FACTS, that you just don't have the data to make.

        Again, your 5% number is technically observable, but not by taking snapshots every so often. There are days and times when cards do better. For instance, I made SURE to have Stars up on Friday night, into Saturday, because I knew people would start hitting the RttC wall, and want quick fix upgrades. Sold Paul Pressey on BIN above minimum, and a few others. I sold James Harden Star for way above min (even though he's a fairly standard, Offense only SG), because I saw he hit a career high the other night, and figured somebody would go into hypebeast mode and overpay for a marginal card. I was right.

        Point is, there are extenuating factors, and doing an occasional check of the cards that people aren't buying, then casting an assessment of the whole system on that, is fundamentally flawed.

        And why exactly don't we "care" about high value cards? Why do those just get thrown out of the equation? They are a part of the ecosystem too. Yeah... It's easy to paint a dire picture when you willfully leave out the bright spots. What's the point though? If your entire argument is "cards that people tend to not want, that go to the end of auction without being bought straight out, don't sell all that well", well yeah... great work. Gordon Gekko over here...

        As for my knowledge of FIFA, again.. I've never claimed to have any.. but just basic understanding of how this game works leads me to believe they have a different ecosystem.. and they undoubtedly DO. There's a much larger user base.. soccer is an 11 man sport.. they have incentives for pairing particular cards together... this is just what I know off the top of my head, that lends itself to more money being spent. I'm sure I could drill down more, and find several mitigating factors. You don't have to be a genius, or particularly knowledgeable to make that call. Different things operate differently. I really went out on a limb with that statement.

        Comment

        • Illmatic1909
          Pro
          • Dec 2014
          • 708

          #604
          Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

          Originally posted by ActionJack
          You keep pulling stuff from thin air.
          All BINs are prearranged now? I have prearranged a total of 1 AH transaction, and I've sold a bunch on BIN. Some were high value cards (Lebron, Kyrie) and others weren't (Maravich, Rodman Legend, Rodman Epic Pro). You are making all sorts of statements about actual FACTS, that you just don't have the data to make.

          Again, your 5% number is technically observable, but not by taking snapshots every so often. There are days and times when cards do better. For instance, I made SURE to have Stars up on Friday night, into Saturday, because I knew people would start hitting the RttC wall, and want quick fix upgrades. Sold Paul Pressey on BIN above minimum, and a few others. I sold James Harden Star for way above min (even though he's a fairly standard, Offense only SG), because I saw he hit a career high the other night, and figured somebody would go into hypebeast mode and overpay for a marginal card. I was right.

          Point is, there are extenuating factors, and doing an occasional check of the cards that people aren't buying, then casting an assessment of the whole system on that, is fundamentally flawed.

          And why exactly don't we "care" about high value cards? Why do those just get thrown out of the equation? They are a part of the ecosystem too. Yeah... It's easy to paint a dire picture when you willfully leave out the bright spots. What's the point though? If your entire argument is "cards that people tend to not want, that go to the end of auction without being bought straight out, don't sell all that well", well yeah... great work. Gordon Gekko over here...

          As for my knowledge of FIFA, again.. I've never claimed to have any.. but just basic understanding of how this game works leads me to believe they have a different ecosystem.. and they undoubtedly DO. There's a much larger user base.. soccer is an 11 man sport.. they have incentives for pairing particular cards together... this is just what I know off the top of my head, that lends itself to more money being spent. I'm sure I could drill down more, and find several mitigating factors. You don't have to be a genius, or particularly knowledgeable to make that call. Different things operate differently. I really went out on a limb with that statement.
          Buddy, I'm done with you. You aren't smart enough to be in this discussion.

          1) Re-read my statement, pre-arranged OR high-value cards;
          2) Snapshots are called samples. In order to make an inference about a population (all AH times), you have to take random samples from the entire population that you are looking to make an inference about. That's how inference works.
          3) Again, re-read my statement. The rules of the AH won't affect high value cards. They will sell, regardless. The rules of the AH will affect all other cards.
          4) You have no possible knowledge, unless you communicated with those people, for knowing why your cards sold on any given night.

          You are a semantic dissector, and your inability to understand deductive reasoning makes you a poor person to have a discussion with. I admit that I don't know what lower minimums would do to the AH, nor should you...all I'm saying is what I'd like to see:

          1) Buyer/seller competition determine the price point by reducing Min's and eliminate/raise BIN's to make sure markets go to close.
          2) Reduce auction times.
          3) Allow a counter that resets to avoid sniping...after every bid with under 1 minute left in the auction, the counter resets to 1 minute.

          I'm not saying my way is right, nor that you are wrong, just what I guess would bring more competition into the market. I would prefer it if you stopped replying to my posts. Thanks!
          Last edited by Illmatic1909; 03-24-2015, 12:48 PM.
          IGN: illmatic1
          Tier: Leg++

          Comment

          • ActionJack
            Pro
            • Mar 2014
            • 586

            #605
            Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

            Sampling has to be representative of the whole to be useful. If you think random anecdotal sampling is enough to make a real assessment, don't try to lecture me on anything like this.

            And what, James Harden, Paul Pressey, and Pete Maravich are "high value" cards now?

            If you think changing the rules won't affect ALL cards, you're crazy.

            I may not have specific knowledge on why cards sell, but if I make educated plays, and wind up selling "unsellable" cards, at a higher clip than most, maybe I've figured a thing or two out. Again.. it's not rocket science. If people are desperate for Pros so they can beat RttC, and Paul Pressey flies off the shelf for 7.5K.. it's a pretty safe bet what happened.

            And I'm understanding your reasoning just fine. I just question your premise. I question your goals. I've made it very clear where I stand on this, so you're right, this doesn't need to continue. But to suggest that I'm somehow just missing your argument is nonsense.

            You want everything open, so you can sell whatever you want, to get funds back to buy the cards you want. It's not that hard of a platform to grasp.

            You're willfully ignoring the very predictable ramifications of it.

            It's not that hard to figure out how things would go.

            Comment

            • Illmatic1909
              Pro
              • Dec 2014
              • 708

              #606
              Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

              Originally posted by ActionJack
              random anecdotal sampling
              Apparently you can't read. Bye!
              IGN: illmatic1
              Tier: Leg++

              Comment

              • ActionJack
                Pro
                • Mar 2014
                • 586

                #607
                Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

                Originally posted by Illmatic1909
                Apparently you can't read. Bye!


                Stats 101.

                Hopping on your phone and hitting "Search" a couple of times does not create a representative sampling. Sorry.

                You keep confusing you being wrong, with me being somehow unable to understand.

                Comment

                • Illmatic1909
                  Pro
                  • Dec 2014
                  • 708

                  #608
                  Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

                  Originally posted by Illmatic1909
                  Bye!
                  See above!
                  IGN: illmatic1
                  Tier: Leg++

                  Comment

                  • eVizions
                    MVP
                    • Apr 2008
                    • 1257

                    #609
                    Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

                    Originally posted by ActionJack
                    You keep pulling stuff from thin air.

                    All BINs are prearranged now? I have prearranged a total of 1 AH transaction, and I've sold a bunch on BIN. Some were high value cards (Lebron, Kyrie) and others weren't (Maravich, Rodman Legend, Rodman Epic Pro). You are making all sorts of statements about actual FACTS, that you just don't have the data to make.

                    Again, your 5% number is technically observable, but not by taking snapshots every so often. There are days and times when cards do better. For instance, I made SURE to have Stars up on Friday night, into Saturday, because I knew people would start hitting the RttC wall, and want quick fix upgrades. Sold Paul Pressey on BIN above minimum, and a few others. I sold James Harden Star for way above min (even though he's a fairly standard, Offense only SG), because I saw he hit a career high the other night, and figured somebody would go into hypebeast mode and overpay for a marginal card. I was right.

                    Point is, there are extenuating factors, and doing an occasional check of the cards that people aren't buying, then casting an assessment of the whole system on that, is fundamentally flawed.

                    And why exactly don't we "care" about high value cards? Why do those just get thrown out of the equation? They are a part of the ecosystem too. Yeah... It's easy to paint a dire picture when you willfully leave out the bright spots. What's the point though? If your entire argument is "cards that people tend to not want, that go to the end of auction without being bought straight out, don't sell all that well", well yeah... great work. Gordon Gekko over here...

                    As for my knowledge of FIFA, again.. I've never claimed to have any.. but just basic understanding of how this game works leads me to believe they have a different ecosystem.. and they undoubtedly DO. There's a much larger user base.. soccer is an 11 man sport.. they have incentives for pairing particular cards together... this is just what I know off the top of my head, that lends itself to more money being spent. I'm sure I could drill down more, and find several mitigating factors. You don't have to be a genius, or particularly knowledgeable to make that call. Different things operate differently. I really went out on a limb with that statement.
                    You've pretty much ignored all of the important factors and instead seem to focus on the "5%". Here's the bottom line: cards on AH aren't selling. Whether it's 5%, 10% or even 20%, very few cards are selling. You can throw in all of the edge cases you want, it still doesn't add up to a healthy scenario. And, no, I don't need a financial statement or reports to prove that. Sometimes, deductive reasoning rolls up with a baseball bat and smacks you across the face. If this "economy" is, in fact, what CD had planned, like you seem to think, then it's probably time to find a new game.

                    You can continue to argue about whether it's actually broken or not. I'd rather move on and focus on how to actually fix it.

                    Comment

                    • ActionJack
                      Pro
                      • Mar 2014
                      • 586

                      #610
                      Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

                      I didn't ignore... I spoke to the fundamental point, which is the idea that all cards should have a redeemable credit value to the holder, no matter how low.

                      I disagree with that. I believe the minimum serves an important purpose, and keeping all sales above a certain threshold is very useful for this game's life, as it currently is set up. If CD wanted to change the game in meaningful ways, maybe that would change, but as it is, I believe minimums serve an important purpose.

                      You can obviously go on discussing whatever you want. Just wanted to register my belief.
                      Last edited by ActionJack; 03-24-2015, 07:26 PM.

                      Comment

                      • Supah
                        Rookie
                        • Nov 2014
                        • 78

                        #611
                        Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

                        They can only actively serve that kind of purpose and extend the life of the game if there is any sort of regularity in being able to meet those price floors, don't you think? Winning a star season gives you 400 credits. That's about the biggest lump you can get. If you can't sell cards you accumulate (because the minimum is rather high compared to how much you can gain credits), then all the minimums are doing is putting the card out of reach. Besides the initial flurry to sell cards, do you really think the majority of players will be able to afford the high baseline prices? Controlling the prices as they are, limiting the influx of credits and obtaining higher tier cards seems like a pretty inelegant way of filling their own coffers. It's not extending the life of the game, it's putting off death. When the majority of sales on this forum have someone buying back a common for 20-40% of the minimum, what's the point of having a minimum?

                        Comment

                        • ActionJack
                          Pro
                          • Mar 2014
                          • 586

                          #612
                          Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

                          Originally posted by Supah
                          They can only actively serve that kind of purpose and extend the life of the game if there is any sort of regularity in being able to meet those price floors, don't you think? Winning a star season gives you 400 credits. That's about the biggest lump you can get. If you can't sell cards you accumulate (because the minimum is rather high compared to how much you can gain credits), then all the minimums are doing is putting the card out of reach. Besides the initial flurry to sell cards, do you really think the majority of players will be able to afford the high baseline prices? Controlling the prices as they are, limiting the influx of credits and obtaining higher tier cards seems like a pretty inelegant way of filling their own coffers. It's not extending the life of the game, it's putting off death. When the majority of sales on this forum have someone buying back a common for 20-40% of the minimum, what's the point of having a minimum?
                          You leave out the option of purchasing credits... which is what CD wants you to do. The point of this endeavor, for them, isn't to devise more and more ways for you to get cards you want, without having to pay them. They want you to open your wallet, and lay down some cash if there are things you want to buy.

                          This whole thing doesn't work at all, unless we're willing to spend money.

                          Comment

                          • NWGameDad
                            Cat Daddy Games
                            • Dec 2013
                            • 1239

                            #613
                            Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

                            First off, thanks all for playing the game. I hope you're enjoying Update 6. The RttC was a huge success, and people seem to be loving the new Rivals Clash structure with the Nets vs. Raptors.


                            I wanted to let you know that we made 2 changes a few minutes ago:


                            1. The Epic rarity minimums for Bids and Buy It Nows (BIN) have been lowered. There is now a smoother ramp in minimums between Ultra Rare, Epic, and Legendary. Epics should move a little easier in the Auction House now.


                            2. A 1st place finish in Seasons will now award 2.5 times more Credits than the amounts at launch. For example, a Star Season 1st place finish will now award you 1000 Credits.


                            Finally, I know people have encountered a bug where after RttC was completed, their top 25 cards were locked in the RttC deck and cannot be taken out since the interface for editing the deck disappears when the event is over. This is something we will fix in the next update, but unfortunately you will not be able to edit your deck again until Wednesday when the next RttC event's pre-game shows up. Sorry for the inconvenience.


                            I hope you enjoy the changes. Thanks for playing MyNBA2K15!
                            NWGameDad
                            Senior Producer
                            Cat Daddy Games

                            Comment

                            • eVizions
                              MVP
                              • Apr 2008
                              • 1257

                              #614
                              Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

                              1. Time to lower minimums for Legendary and Star
                              2. Nobody wants credits, give us the cards back

                              Comment

                              • apos1914
                                All Star
                                • Nov 2014
                                • 6278

                                #615
                                Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

                                I prefer credits than lots of cards. Makes it harder for low tier players to catch up with us...
                                Bring Romar back!!!

                                Comment

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