Just when you thought they were on the right track...

[Gary Armida]

Re: Just when you thought they were on the right track...

So what if a person plays both games and has no allegiance to either company.

I've seen several post from quiet a few who state they will get both games.

How do you define those type of gamers?

Half Sim and Half not right....:wink:

Yes, there is a lot of that going around. People feel the need to show that their game is for "smarter" people/sim players and the other one isn't. The APF/Madden debate was always like that this summer.

Me, I'll get both and see which one gives me the best overall package. I don't care which one it is, I just want a good basketball game. It looks like I may have 2 options...gamers win.

[Alburt Poohole]

Re: Just when you thought they were on the right track...

I think the reason Live fans don't like NBA 2K, is because itz too much for them. Too real. Live fans want everything handed to them. Thats why when they try NBA 2K they are always turned off because they can't adjust and are afraid of real competition/difficulty. I tried the Live demo, and it was indeed pretty fun. It felt like the NBA honestly, but there still are some little rough edges that need fixing. Thing with 2K8 is it improves on the best basketball game ever (2K7) . 2K7 could have been near perfect, but there were a few issues keeping it from that level. I just don't see how any real fan of the NBA can look at both games, and not think 2K8 is the better looking/better playing game. Better luck next year EA..

I'm sorry but this is a dumb post...these guys who try to draw these lines painting one gamer as sim or arcade based on the game they play is just plain stupid and almost showing of a gaming elitist attitude...NEWS FLASH...2k can be sim and arcade...In fact that goes for any game.

I've played the 2k Demo and there is nothing real about players skating and sliding all over the floor...So lets give the sim/non-sim argument a rest...The person on the sticks will determine how the game plays and after playing both demos both will be as sim or as arcade as you want them to be.

Also champ...come down off your high horse cause 2k IMO has not been all that on next gen..Its the same ported game from xbox (yawn)

[thundergod]

Re: Just when you thought they were on the right track...

The last few post have been refreshing. I thought I was the only one here growing tired of the if you don't like 2k you don't like real bball crap. 2K is a great game, I just feel that this year Live is providing what some are looking for. 2k fan boys with the EA is the devil angle gets old. So to all the posters like me who come here to get valuable info as well as opinions about games it gets old when you get guys who supposedly have no interest or even hate for a game coming in a forum to post against that game. I respect to 2K but don't love. I think I am going to enjoy Live this season after not buying for the last 3 years. 2K heads go do your thing. Let the people who want to enjoy one or both due that. This place takes brand loyalty to an extreme sometimes.

[cocobee]

Re: Just when you thought they were on the right track...

The last few post have been refreshing. I thought I was the only one here growing tired of the if you don't like 2k you don't like real bball crap. 2K is a great game, I just feel that this year Live is providing what some are looking for. 2k fan boys with the EA is the devil angle gets old. So to all the posters like me who come here to get valuable info as well as opinions about games it gets old when you get guys who supposedly have no interest or even hate for a game coming in a forum to post against that game. I respect to 2K but don't love. I think I am going to enjoy Live this season after not buying for the last 3 years. 2K heads go do your thing. Let the people who want to enjoy one or both due that. This place takes brand loyalty to an extreme sometimes.

You obviously don't know where you are..this is 2K country..even the Live forums. LOL!

I share the same feelings, sometimes you might catch some intelligence from a 2Ker

[CFav]

Re: Just when you thought they were on the right track...

[quote=Whaaaazuuuuup;2037757190]i felt the same way til i tried the demo (love it) and watched the programers talk to the LIVE07 winners. and seeing their (programers) excitement on what they've done to better the game and to actually see those improvements in the demo, i'm gonna give the game a try. not only that, but the developers sat there and admitted to the poor product of 07 and wanted 08 to be a different story. they've succeeded in imo. unlike David Ortiz and those clowns at MADDEN who sat there bragging and boasting how much better 08 is, the the game turns out to be complete trash...[/quote/]

I see your point but, Developers/Producers etc. are SUPPOSED to be excited about the game. It's called thier JOBS. lol If thier game tanks and doesn't sell, guess what? They are shown the door. Ortiz and the other clowns were HYPING up Madden this year (as always) and looked what happened. I'm not saying that Live won't be great this year, I haven't played the finished (plus 20 patches) product yet but FOR ME it is a matter of principle and customer relations (and screwings) that have made ANY EA Sports title a no go for me. It's all personal choice, and I hope that those that spend thier hard earned money on Live and 2k for that matter get what they were hoping for.

[obie]

Re: Just when you thought they were on the right track...

I'm sorry but this is a dumb post...these guys who try to draw these lines painting one gamer as sim or arcade based on the game they play is just plain stupid and almost showing of a gaming elitist attitude...NEWS FLASH...2k can be sim and arcade...In fact that goes for any game.

I've played the 2k Demo and there is nothing real about players skating and sliding all over the floor...So lets give the sim/non-sim argument a rest...The person on the sticks will determine how the game plays and after playing both demos both will be as sim or as arcade as you want them to be.

Also champ...come down off your high horse cause 2k IMO has not been all that on next gen..Its the same ported game from xbox (yawn)

This is the way many people think because in recent years live has always been a more acade style, while 2K goes for the sim gamers.
The people playing the game can make the game more sim like, but when the gameplay gives you all the tools to be an arcade type game can you really say that it isn't? I don't think anyone is saying that if you play live you are an idiot, I think 2k fans are referring to past games that prove their statements.
I used to love live, but in recent years the game has been trash. This year might change everything, but we can't determine that until the game comes out.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Just when you thought they were on the right track...

^^^In terms of competitive gaming, this is a problem for any sports franchise. If you're truly going to be competitive, then you are supposed to do whatever is necesary to be the best(i.e. the winner). When a game company programs its game, it is their responsibility to make sure that the best way to win in a simulation is to be the best strategist, as well as executor of said strategy. If the best strategy for winning is to throw the ball down court and run and dunk it, and then repeatedly press the steal button, then that is what the game was made to do, intentionally or otherwise.

When these exploits(cheeses, strategies, methods, whatever) are the keys to winning, you cannot put the onus on the player to "make it sim". It's not sim, and it's up to the programmers to change that.

If players want to adjust their playing to not include the most winning strategies, that's their personal choice. In real life sports, the best strategy wins. Until the games follow suit, they are the very definition of arcade.

[Alburt Poohole]

Re: Just when you thought they were on the right track...

This is the way many people think because in recent years live has always been a more acade style, while 2K goes for the sim gamers.
The people playing the game can make the game more sim like, but when the gameplay gives you all the tools to be an arcade type game can you really say that it isn't? I don't think anyone is saying that if you play live you are an idiot, I think 2k fans are referring to past games that prove their statements.
I used to love live, but in recent years the game has been trash. This year might change everything, but we can't determine that until the game comes out.

I've played 2k since the Dreamcast days and in just speaking on the last 2 next gen versions there has been nothing sim about ther 2k6 DUNKFEST and the ability to throw the ball 3/4 of the way up the court to the wing and just get your dunk on...Or last year when any mediocre bum (JJ Redick) could and would shoot damn near 80% from the 3 pt line. I played in a league lkast year and watched fools pull up for 3's on 3 v 1 breaks...Why? because the 3pt shot was just stupid.

So I don't want to hear about all this "so called" intelligent 2k basketball...2K has the same problems that most other games have...Its a decent game but many of these fools act as if the game is PERFECT...Well I hate to pee on their cornflakes but 2k is far from perfect...From the dunkfests to skating to the **** roach skattering players it has some issues...No doubt live sucked the last two years but 2k is the beneficiary of alot of EA hatred...On the same token 2k is an OK game...I just don;t think its as good as people make it seem while LIVE IMO was not as bad as people made it seem...I played LIVE last year and while I personally would give it a far below average grade any person who played the game and is just a straight up gamer would see the potential in the game...that still rings true LIVE is MUCH improved but I also still see alot of room for even more improvement...On the flipside..How can 2k continue to improve on an OLD TIRED engine...IMO they've maxed that game out...Its an old gen game with a next gen coat of paint over the top...Thats just not enough for me.

[obie]

Re: Just when you thought they were on the right track...

I've played 2k since the Dreamcast days and in just speaking on the last 2 next gen versions there has been nothing sim about ther 2k6 DUNKFEST and the ability to throw the ball 3/4 of the way up the court to the wing and just get your dunk on...Or last year when any mediocre bum (JJ Redick) could and would shoot damn near 80% from the 3 pt line. I played in a league lkast year and watched fools pull up for 3's on 3 v 1 breaks...Why? because the 3pt shot was just stupid.

So I don't want to hear about all this "so called" intelligent 2k basketball...2K has the same problems that most other games have...Its a decent game but many of these fools act as if the game is PERFECT...Well I hate to pee on their cornflakes but 2k is far from perfect...From the dunkfests to skating to the **** roach skattering players it has some issues...No doubt live sucked the last two years but 2k is the beneficiary of alot of EA hatred...On the same token 2k is an OK game...I just don;t think its as good as people make it seem while LIVE IMO was not as bad as people made it seem...I played LIVE last year and while I personally would give it a far below average grade any person who played the game and is just a straight up gamer would see the potential in the game...that still rings true LIVE is MUCH improved but I also still see alot of room for even more improvement...On the flipside..How can 2k continue to improve on an OLD TIRED engine...IMO they've maxed that game out...Its an old gen game with a next gen coat of paint over the top...Thats just not enough for me.

Well I don't refer to 2K as intelligent gaming, since video games don't really challenge my intelligence. It seems like you really hate 2K and stand up for Live as much as possible. Live as been going down hill for a long time and everyone knows that. You point out all the flaws in 2K and then don't mention any of the game breaking flaws that were in live. With your arguement, you seem way too biased towards one game. I don't think your arguement is objective in anyway and since you like the least popular of the two, you are making it your mission to bash 2K. I don't care what you like to play, because it is all personnal preference. I'm simply stating that 2K has a way better track record for gameplay then Live does. So when a person stating Live is trash compared to 2k, they are basing that statement off previous years. Yes 2k has problems in the gameplay, but can you really say that Live was more sim than 2K?

[KENYON06]

Re: Just when you thought they were on the right track...

I've played 2k since the Dreamcast days and in just speaking on the last 2 next gen versions there has been nothing sim about ther 2k6 DUNKFEST and the ability to throw the ball 3/4 of the way up the court to the wing and just get your dunk on...Or last year when any mediocre bum (JJ Redick) could and would shoot damn near 80% from the 3 pt line. I played in a league lkast year and watched fools pull up for 3's on 3 v 1 breaks...Why? because the 3pt shot was just stupid.

So I don't want to hear about all this "so called" intelligent 2k basketball...2K has the same problems that most other games have...Its a decent game but many of these fools act as if the game is PERFECT...Well I hate to pee on their cornflakes but 2k is far from perfect...From the dunkfests to skating to the **** roach skattering players it has some issues...No doubt live sucked the last two years but 2k is the beneficiary of alot of EA hatred...On the same token 2k is an OK game...I just don;t think its as good as people make it seem while LIVE IMO was not as bad as people made it seem...I played LIVE last year and while I personally would give it a far below average grade any person who played the game and is just a straight up gamer would see the potential in the game...that still rings true LIVE is MUCH improved but I also still see alot of room for even more improvement...On the flipside..How can 2k continue to improve on an OLD TIRED engine...IMO they've maxed that game out...Its an old gen game with a next gen coat of paint over the top...Thats just not enough for me.

Why you mad? Pst, engines, especially good ones have pieces and parts that can be swapped and upgraded. See them pretty cloth physics? See the new footplanting? Pretty much everything can be changed. What's so great about Lives again anyways? The metal ball physics and the great collision detection and rebounding system? That sweet facial animation system that makes everyone look 90 years old? Those great animations? Those sweet looking passes that defy gravity? Live is touted for having a next gen engine, but nothing about it is technically good.

[Incorruptible]

Re: Just when you thought they were on the right track...

Yes, you can play arcade with 2k too. The thing is, you're not going to beat the CPU playing arcade basketball. I absolutely hated 2k2, which was the first Playstation2/xbox gen basketball game I've ever played. I was maybe 15, and didn't even know the meaning of running a set play. All I tried to do was pass the ball to Vince Carter, and I never won a single game playing the Spurs as the Eastern All-Stars.

Now, if all you do is try to drive and dunk, that can't be done, if you want to win.

There is also other factors that come into play involving being a sim. Such as AI intelligence, which 2k got it down great. Live's AI are dumb, which don't make you feel like you're playing an NBA game, which makes it arcade.

Bottom line, it's far from how the user plays it that makes it a sim... far far...

[TrapMuzik]

Re: Just when you thought they were on the right track...

I feel that 2k graphics need improvement,I noticed when I went to the free throw line the letters of the jersey looked 3Dish, the jerseys seems like they are made of rubber and thats a fact, check it out for yourself im getting 2k btw.

[Alburt Poohole]

Re: Just when you thought they were on the right track...

Yes, you can play arcade with 2k too. The thing is, you're not going to beat the CPU playing arcade basketball. I absolutely hated 2k2, which was the first Playstation2/xbox gen basketball game I've ever played. I was maybe 15, and didn't even know the meaning of running a set play. All I tried to do was pass the ball to Vince Carter, and I never won a single game playing the Spurs as the Eastern All-Stars.

Now, if all you do is try to drive and dunk, that can't be done, if you want to win.

There is also other factors that come into play involving being a sim. Such as AI intelligence, which 2k got it down great. Live's AI are dumb, which don't make you feel like you're playing an NBA game, which makes it arcade.

Bottom line, it's far from how the user plays it that makes it a sim... far far...

Care to explain exactly what about the LIVE 08 AI is dumb?...Thanks

[Alburt Poohole]

Re: Just when you thought they were on the right track...

Well I don't refer to 2K as intelligent gaming, since video games don't really challenge my intelligence. It seems like you really hate 2K and stand up for Live as much as possible. Live as been going down hill for a long time and everyone knows that. You point out all the flaws in 2K and then don't mention any of the game breaking flaws that were in live. With your arguement, you seem way too biased towards one game. I don't think your arguement is objective in anyway and since you like the least popular of the two, you are making it your mission to bash 2K. I don't care what you like to play, because it is all personnal preference. I'm simply stating that 2K has a way better track record for gameplay then Live does. So when a person stating Live is trash compared to 2k, they are basing that statement off previous years. Yes 2k has problems in the gameplay, but can you really say that Live was more sim than 2K?

I'm saying to even make the assertion that either one is more sim than the other is stupid...Its almopst like everytime one of you dudes make that assertion your doing it to convivnce yourselves that 2k is a better game because the highly anointed sim players play 2k...Gimme a break...LIVE ballers play every bit as sim and/or arcade as 2k players do.

The games will play the way the user wants them to play...In fact LIVES biggest issues last year had very little to do with basketball AI and everything to do with Framerate and animations...THose very basic things that catch the eye were way off...So if you didn't get past that you would never know that the actual gameplay on the court after those issues was pretty good...But like many I couldn't get past the choppy framerate and ******** animations.

I never said LIVE was without fault but some of you cats go off the deep end trying to make 2k seem like it was far better than what it is...Its merely a good game...Nothing special and definitely nothing next gen. 2k today is the same 2k that it was on xbox...wack physics, slippin and skatin all over the floor and the same crazy looking crowds that dazzled us all on NFL2k5...And lets not even talk about the graphics because they just aren't worth talking about.

Bro..I'm a gamer..I play whatever game and I don't blindly suypport a console or developer...I've been a 2k consumer and avid player of that game since 2000 and since 2005 I've lost interest in playing the same game...Right now based on the demo's LIVE is the better experience...emphasis on "me"...Thats doesn't make it a better game...Just a better game for what I'm looking for in any sports game I buy...BTW...I play sim all day long

[Alburt Poohole]

Re: Just when you thought they were on the right track...

See them pretty cloth physics? See the new footplanting? Pretty much everything can be changed. What's so great about Lives again anyways?

You mean the cloth physics that flap over lebron's ears when he shoots a J or the same cloth physics that magically disappear and leave cats nude on the court?

Oh and footplanting???...Don't even try it player the 2k8 demo features decreased skating...I wouldn't even attempt to call that footplanting because the technology behind=d 2k's old tired engine will not allow next gen physics...You can't have next gen physics or visuals when you continue to port from an old gen console.