Bad late game AI

[bls]

Re: Bad late game AI

The thing about it is, you dont always want the CPU to make the correct decision just as in real life. Take for instance the Piston game a couple days ago. They were up 3 and Iverson fouled the guy shooting a 3 pointer. Thats just something you dont wanna do.

I say for the most part have the CPU make the right call in situations like this but there also have to be a mixture to keep the game fresh and exciting. Not every coach is good with managing time and possesions down the stretch.

[Pared]

Re: Bad late game AI

The 2 situations I described in my first post above happens EVERY single in late games. As a matter of fact, when I'm at the FT line up by one point....I PURPOSELY miss 1 out of the 2 foul shots because I know that the cpu won't take a 3 if I'm up by that amount.

In that case I can't argue with you. It's one thing if it happens here and there but if it happens as often as you mention then you're right.

Agreed. The late game AI is terrible. I'd say in 90% of close games it is terrible, so I agree with Pared and LFD.

There's a lot of things wrong with the game...i had the CPU beat me last week when their player was about 2 feet out of bounds for a rebound He got it and put it back...i watched the replay and he had both feet out of bounds!

The game has a tonne of promise...but the engine still has a tonne of holes.

I've said all along, it's a great beta this year

The CPU steps out of bounds in the same spot often... It seems like one of the plays that it runs has a position where the player catches the ball out of bounds.

We have time scheduled to improve our late game AI logic (which I know has several problems.) It would be immensely helpful, as some of you already have, if you guys could post your issues with as much detail as possible so we can debug the problem on our end and find the holes in the logic. Thanks.

That's great to hear. I will get you the information.

KDRE, reading back I realized you misunderstood the situation. The CPU was on defense, not on offense. They fouled me after letting the entire shot clock wind down. That doesn't make sense.

[23]

Re: Bad late game AI

KDRE, reading back I realized you misunderstood the situation. The CPU was on defense, not on offense. They fouled me after letting the entire shot clock wind down. That doesn't make sense.

Yeah man I didnt quite get it in the beginning, but thats why I also posted that they foul me almost until its a hopeless situation if im not up by 10.

Im not defending or banging on the posts... and im sure it can always be improved but bls is right. The AI shouldn't always make the right moves, coach always call the right plays, the players do exactly as you think in every situation, because truth is basketball is as unpredictable as it comes in those situations. Look at Jeff Foster the other night

[Pared]

Re: Bad late game AI

I don't disagree with that; I just wanted a discussion as to what is the best way to handle that situation and see if anyone had thoughts differently from my own.

[23]

Re: Bad late game AI

That would mean we're all seeing the same thing though. Im more annoyed that they come after me as soon as I rebound, but its the situation that is called for that.


I can't pass off fast enough and if I do run up court they get to me pretty fast around the halfcourt like unless im lucky enough to chuck a 3 to prevent the quick foul.

[Pared]

Re: Bad late game AI

That would mean we're all seeing the same thing though.

I don't agree with that. If anything, this thread was more about basketball strategy given the situation and whether or not you agreed with what transpired.

I don't think I've mentioned that I've always had poor late game situationals but this one was a first for me and was more curious as to what you would expect the CPU to do. It probably might have been better for the NBA board I guess.

[23]

Re: Bad late game AI

I dont get it then. You want to discuss what an NBA team would do in a given situation, what happened to you, or what people see happening in the game?

If its just about what teams do in late game situations then I dont get why you would post this in the Live forum if you just want to talk about basketball late game coaching strategies.

[evarts2616]

Re: Bad late game AI

cpu steps out of bounds because there is no boudary force slider in this game. in ncaa 09 basketball you don't see that happen because they included a boundary force field slider.

i just can't stand seeing guys clearly step out of bounds and then shoot and score

[Pared]

Re: Bad late game AI

I dont get it then. You want to discuss what an NBA team would do in a given situation, what happened to you, or what people see happening in the game?

If its just about what teams do in late game situations then I dont get why you would post this in the Live forum if you just want to talk about basketball late game coaching strategies.

lol I don't get why this has to be so long winded and involving.

I proposed a scenario that the AI in Live '09 did and wanted to know other's thoughts on if this was what should have or what they expected to happen. You still haven't even responded to it but have more posts anyone else in the thread. I understand you didn't get it at first but now you do. What would you expect the CPU AI to do given the scenario?

cpu steps out of bounds because there is no boudary force slider in this game. in ncaa 09 basketball you don't see that happen because they included a boundary force field slider.

i just can't stand seeing guys clearly step out of bounds and then shoot and score

I'm not seeing this but I don't doubt you. I've had the CPU step out of bounds and be called for it pretty often. However, it was almost always in the same exact spot which leads me to believe it's an issue with a certain play.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Bad late game AI

The AI shouldn't always make the right moves, coach always call the right plays, the players do exactly as you think in every situation, because truth is basketball is as unpredictable as it comes in those situations. Look at Jeff Foster the other night

I agree with this sentiment. We don't want Robo-passer/defender/offense/defense from the AI. However, the difference should be in player awareness and execution. If a CPU coach tells it's players not to foul, any mistakes should occur in probable situations that result from user decisions.

Example: The CPU is down 3 with 30 seconds to go. They don't want to foul. They want to defend and rebound. They shouldn't just run up and slap you on the arm on the perimeter if they are going to make a mistake. They should foul you if you put pressure on lower awareness players to make defensive plays they aren't capable of.

Example 2: The CPU is up by 2 with 30 seconds to go. They want to take a good shot attempt and either rebound, make the shot or leave you with very little time for an answer.

Great teams should execute this play properly, requiring exceptional defense to force an error.

Good teams should execute well, but make a mistake if the wrong personnel is on the floor. Good defense could force an error

Bad teams may go too soon, or take a poor attempt, allowing an easier bucket on the end. Solid defense could force this scenario.

Throw in the variables of momentum and fatigue and I think you have enough factors to give varied gameplay with an AI that will make mistakes, yet follow a logical gameplan.

[23]

Re: Bad late game AI

lol I don't get why this has to be so long winded and involving.

I proposed a scenario that the AI in Live '09 did and wanted to know other's thoughts on if this was what should have or what they expected to happen. You still haven't even responded to it but have more posts anyone else in the thread. I understand you didn't get it at first but now you do. What would you expect the CPU AI to do given the scenario?



I'm not seeing this but I don't doubt you. I've had the CPU step out of bounds and be called for it pretty often. However, it was almost always in the same exact spot which leads me to believe it's an issue with a certain play.

Come on pared, im not here just posting duds man. I told you what the CPU does and I expect them to foul me like I said they do to try to catch up. I expect a different scenario once in awhile like a brain fart because it happens, I even expect them to skip calling time outs once in awhile to surprise me trying to go for a win. Every situation is not the same.

The crack about people wanting to discuss the good things was over the top man. Im just trying to understand what you're saying. Are you talking about the game or a lone situation?

Im asking because of your thread title and you attributing one situation to bad AI logic.

[Pared]

Re: Bad late game AI

I'm referring to the one specific scenario I posted. Others chimed in, including Beluba, about their knowledge of terrible late game AI. And that was not the intention of the title but apparently I've hit gold.

Any way you shape it, what I posted was attributed to bad AI logic.

Enough of this though; Let's both get off the logistics and focus on the topic at hand.

Does what the AI did make any sense to you?

[23]

Re: Bad late game AI

Man this thread makes my head hurt. Yes and no, but then again the announcers on tv i've heard said the same thing "you've got to foul him! foul him!".. then "Why didnt he foul him, I dont understand!"

I guess I can now start a thread about good late game AI since ive seen alot?

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Bad late game AI

Man this thread makes my head hurt. Yes and no, but then again the announcers on tv i've heard said the same thing "you've got to foul him! foul him!".. then "Why didnt he foul him, I dont understand!"

That was the other point I forgot to make about AI mistakes. If it's reflected in the coach animations and commentary, I think it can really add to the experience. If you're going to have the AI make mistakes, you have to build the system around it to enhance verisimilitude.

[Pared]

Re: Bad late game AI

I guess I can now start a thread about good late game AI since ive seen alot?

Feel free? I honestly don't know what sort of response you expect from a comment like that. It seems the title of the thread has rubbed you the wrong way for whatever reason, despite Beluba even chiming claiming their late game AI is suspect right now.

I honestly don't see what you're looking to accomplish here at this point KDRE. Things like this should be discussed to make next year's game better.