Do you mind losing to the cpu?

[DirtyJerz32]

I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on who it feels when the cpu beats you in game.

I haven't started my dynasty yet but, I've probably played 10 games against the cpu. I want to find out how each teams plays. I will say that the starts are stars in the game. I was playing against the Rockets last night and TMac was killing with his first step & pull up J.

Anyway, just wanted to get a discussion on how everyone feels when they lose a game against the cpu. Do you feel cheated or whatever?

[bls]

Re: Do you mind losing to the cpu?

I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on who it feels when the cpu beats you in game.

I haven't started my dynasty yet but, I've probably played 10 games against the cpu. I want to find out how each teams plays. I will say that the starts are stars in the game. I was playing against the Rockets last night and TMac was killing with his first step & pull up J.

Anyway, just wanted to get a discussion on how everyone feels when they lose a game against the cpu. Do you feel cheated or whatever?

I actually don't mind loosing to the CPU and wouldn't mind the challenge of making the CPU AI even more of a challenge. The problem is I believe the vast majority does mind. If anyone ever had a season such as the Knicks had in a basketball video game they would never finish the season. Probably wouldn't even get to half of the season before quiting. Bottom line is, as much as people really want a CHALLENGE, they still don't wanna lose. Know one wants to lose. If you go around and observe some people dynasty stories that they write up in forums you'll see that there records reflect something around perfection most of the time. People complained about 2k9 being too hard and cheating, but theirs no real way to make the CPU more challenging without doing so because the human player will more then likely always be 2 steps ahead if they don't.

[bigsmallwood]

Re: Do you mind losing to the cpu?

As long as I lose fair and square...I don't mind losing or having a losing record. Even if I get blowed away by 20 points...as long as it is reasonable, I can deal. Like the Lakers should dominate a team like the Bobcats...etc I think people just have a problem losing...problem is nobody has ever gone 82-0....and nobody ever will.

[MrMars]

Re: Do you mind losing to the cpu?

It really depends on how I lose. I really dont play the cpu much in live 09 simply because the cpu appears to be able to do things that I cant do to them. PG's regardless of their rating seem to have Meadowlark Lemon type handles and slice and dice their way in to the paint relentlessly. The D collapses and they kick it out to whomever who never misses, while miss 90% of the open looks I get on the perimeter ( and yes I know how to shoot.)

When I play against another human both of us are limited by the control scheme and it actually feels like a real game. Both of us are limited by the cpu lack of intelligence defensively, so we end up playing a chess like Defensive strategy of on-ball, off-ball, properly timed double-teams, tight and loose coverages. When I try this against the cpu I can be effective, but what drives me crazy is playing solid D for 23 out of 24 seconds and they still make miraculous shots, or the perfect needle threaded pass down low.

Bottom line, I dont mind losing to the cpu. But the more I play this game the more it feels like it's not finished. Dont get me wrong, I think it's a fantastic foundation for a great B-Ball game, it's just that the cpu is better at stringing together the limited animations that produce positive results.

For example, the cpu always has off-ball movement, while it's hit or miss most times for me. sometimes it takes half of the shot clock to get in the right positions to trigger the other players to move. playing someone who has to deal with the same limitations you do makes for a level playing field which translates in to "whoever executes better on both ends of the floor is likely going to win" It doesn't feel this way with the cpu, it feels like the only reason you win is because the cpu shoots a lower percentage, and not because you took some crucial part of their game away from them.

So conversely, when the cpu is shooting well, and can stop on a dime in the perfect position almost every time defensively and you can't make the guys on your team do the same, when no matter how careful you are with passing because of the poor passing mechanism the cpu flys in what appears to be 10 feet to intercept a pass, when it appears that you have a clear lane to the hoop and all of a sudden a defender morphs in front of you to take the charge, when cpu defenders take the ball right off the rim that appear to be going in it feels like the cpu has an advantage.

It's this advantage real or not, and that's a debate for another thread, that makes it not fun for me to play the cpu. I have full confidence based on this forum that most of these issues will be resolved in Live 10, and I look forward to a more fulfilling gaming experience with the cpu.

Peace

Mr.Mars

[GSW]

Re: Do you mind losing to the cpu?

but sometimes the bobcats could beat the lakers.... it happens...would you be mad if kobe was just off? and odom, and the d wasnt clicking in the game like it sometimes happen in real life?

I know most people would...if the players dont ALWAYS play to thier ratings, then people have issues with it...thats why 365 is so sick, because if kobe is off for liek 2 games, or the overall team defense is slipping, it will be reflected in the game.

Therefore, you cannot get "mad" the team sucks for a period of time.

Because they "sucked" in real life.

[kwas676]

Re: Do you mind losing to the cpu?

Therefore, you cannot get "mad" the team sucks for a period of time.

Because they "sucked" in real life.

lmao funny but true

[MrMars]

Re: Do you mind losing to the cpu?

but sometimes the bobcats could beat the lakers.... it happens...would you be mad if kobe was just off? and odom, and the d wasnt clicking in the game like it sometimes happen in real life?

I know most people would...if the players dont ALWAYS play to thier ratings, then people have issues with it...thats why 365 is so sick, because if kobe is off for liek 2 games, or the overall team defense is slipping, it will be reflected in the game.

Therefore, you cannot get "mad" the team sucks for a period of time.

Because they "sucked" in real life.

But that's probably the hardest thing for developers of games to try and simulate correctly. How do you represent "any team can beat any other team on any given night" without you feeling like the cpu is cheating if it's not your teams night?

MrMars

[stlstudios189]

Re: Do you mind losing to the cpu?

I actually just posted a blog about losing to the computer as some of my favorite gaming memories. I don't want to go 24-58 mind you but, if I had a good season and went 65-19 and the losses felt right I would have no problem with it. I hate when people turn off the game because they are losing and start over. Basketball is a game of momentum, I have been down by 18 points and went on a 20-4 run and have had the same thing happent to me. As long as nothing feels forced it is a good game.

[GSW]

Re: Do you mind losing to the cpu?

But that's probably the hardest thing for developers of games to try and simulate correctly. How do you represent "any team can beat any other team on any given night" without you feeling like the cpu is cheating if it's not your teams night?

MrMars

thats what live 365 is for.

[GSW]

Re: Do you mind losing to the cpu?

also they could figure out a way to use the procedural awareness technology to simulate player emotion/reactions during specific points in the game.

skys the limit.

[23]

Re: Do you mind losing to the cpu?

How so?

[GSW]

Re: Do you mind losing to the cpu?

How so?

Well in the Procedural Awareness Madden Tech Demo they showed different emotional states that could occur during Game play

These emotional states had movement animations attached to them, as well as facial expression changes.

So for instance, It could be used to simulate a basketball player with a low cofidence rating (rookie) become frustrated after beign scored on, or missing a few shots in a row, you will see his body language change to reflect this, as well as maybe getting beat a little easier on the defensive end sense his FOCUS wouldnt be in the right place.

A little research on player "types" could lead to a real world of NBA player types and REAL personalities.

For instance, we KNOW Kobe Bryant takes things eprsonally, on big stages, or against another team wiht a big star, we may appear in-game, more intense, and aggressive on either end...he will look INTENSE,FOCUSED,DETERMINED. rather then mindlessly chucking up shots...although , the case can be made where THAT could happen was well.

Thats only the tip of the Iceberg IMO, you can seriously take it in SO many directions.

Like i said the sky is the limit.

[GSW]

Re: Do you mind losing to the cpu?

as a side note, It makes me a little un-easy/mad when people/developers use the cop out: "well how else are they going to make it happen without making the computer cheat"

thats a bunch of baloney IMO.

I for one know that there are a zillion more creative,although time inclusive ways to create that experience, as well as many others...I'm pretty sure the NBA Live team has a couple of guys who believe the same thing...

and i know the other team does as well...I hope so at least

All you really need is a vision and the resources to do it.

[23]

Re: Do you mind losing to the cpu?

That seems pretty sweet if it ever takes the stage in videogames we're now playing. It was a suggestion Born made for crowd, announcer and player reactions to bad plays being made.

Would sure do the game alot better than cut scenes.

[MrMars]

Re: Do you mind losing to the cpu?

thats what live 365 is for.

There is no live 365 in a dynasty. So lets say you play the 82 season games and go .500 how does the game determine when you have a good night and when you have an off night.

That was the point I was trying to make. The other night New Jersey Blew out the Nuggets by 40-something points, are the Nets that much better than the Nuggets? I don't think so. But if you played that game on Live 09 as the Nuggets and got blown out like that by the cpu could you honestly say that you wouldn't think the cpu is cheating, or has an advantage. I know I would.

Another EA game NHL 09 actually does give advantages to teams. There is a slider to determine which team has the advantage in the play now game screen. I'm pretty sure that's how they do it in the dynasty only you don't see the slider or have any control over who might have the advantage. This system has worked to both my benefit and detriment, but it does feel like the cpu is cheating when it clearly has the advantage.

I don't know for sure there is any way to program the uncertanty of player performance, and teamwork levels on a game to game basis reflecting the true up and down nature of a profesional sports team. That to me is probably why it feels cheap most of time when the cpu beats you. JMHO

MrMars