People really should stop blaming the developers for non-sim online play

[RayAP19]

If you think you're gonna get online and play a random person and have a game that's worthy of showing on ESPN Classic, you're gonna be wrong 99% of the time.

Live 09 was a great sim game, but online was still pbbbthh. No matter how sim the game is, people are still gonna drive with LeBron every play, double-team all the time, press all game-- whatever you have a problem with, people are gonna do it.

Your beef is with the community, not the developers

[thesniper321]

Re: People really should stop blaming the developers for non-sim online play

a guy will spin 30 times and dunk on you why cans he spin like that?
a guy will posterize you most of the time even if you timing is perfect cuz the useless engine cannot calculte a proper collision why cans he dunk like that?
a guy will ride your back day long cuz the game doesn't punish you when you mash the steal button why can he do that?

Do I need to continue or you understood that exploit are in the game becuz some developpers didn't fix their game before selling it.


proof=> in the competition game spinning all day is not really useful result=> no spinner
in the competition the engine is way more advanced when you touch someone you're call for a foul result=> no steal spammer

YEAAAAH when the gameplay isn't sim it's becuz someone didn't do his job and came out with AN UNFINISHED PRODUCT so cheesers can use EXPLOIT AT WILL


don't hate the player HATE THE GAME

[jfsolo]

Re: People really should stop blaming the developers for non-sim online play

a guy will spin 30 times and dunk on you why cans he spin like that?
a guy will posterize you most of the time even if you timing is perfect cuz the useless engine cannot calculte a proper collision why cans he dunk like that?
a guy will ride your back day long cuz the game doesn't punish you when you mash the steal button why can he do that?

Do I need to continue or you understood that exploit are in the game becuz some developpers didn't fix their game before selling it.


proof=> in the competition game spinning all day is not really useful result=> no spinner
in the competition the engine is way more advanced when you touch someone you're call for a foul result=> no steal spammer

YEAAAAH when the gameplay isn't sim it's becuz someone didn't do his job and came out with AN UNFINISHED PRODUCT so cheesers can use EXPLOIT AT WILL


don't hate the player HATE THE GAME

This.

That they even try to exploit the game or play without utilizing real basketball fundamentals is on the player, that they can have great success doing so, is squarely on the developers.

Maybe I'm wrong, and we're still not there yet, but I believe we've reached a point where the hardware is advanced enough to eliminate the overwhelming majority of these exploits. Not 100%, but enough so that it is no longer a viable strategy for winning.

[totalownership]

Re: People really should stop blaming the developers for non-sim online play

If you think you're gonna get online and play a random person and have a game that's worthy of showing on ESPN Classic, you're gonna be wrong 99% of the time.

Live 09 was a great sim game, but online was still pbbbthh. No matter how sim the game is, people are still gonna drive with LeBron every play, double-team all the time, press all game-- whatever you have a problem with, people are gonna do it.

Your beef is with the community, not the developers

You and I agree 99 percent of the time but here goes that 1 percent now. lol.

Dude thats like saying we shouldn't blame Bayer for 3 people dying because they didn't put tamperproof stuff on their aspirin and some sick mofo came along and tampered with the medicine. Sure they didn't put the poison in there but they KNOW some jerkoff is going to come along and mess with it and they did nothing to prevent it.

Now wait, do I expect everyone to play sim? Hells no. I'd be a fool to. But no game should reward unsim play unless it has Street, Tour or Jam in it's title.

[RayAP19]

Re: People really should stop blaming the developers for non-sim online play

I think what I've gathered from this board is that people have this crazy notion of a perfect game, where there are no possible exploits and everyone is forced to play "the right way."

The truth of the matter is that game is a LONG ways away, if we're ever gonna see it at all. People will ALWAYS find a strategy or tactic that the "sim" community won't like, and they'll complain about it. Even if it WAS possible to make an exploit-free game, the same people online who use exploits now wouldn't suddenly become sim, so you'd STILL be complaining, even if you held LeBron James to 6/42 from the field.

[totalownership]

Re: People really should stop blaming the developers for non-sim online play

I think what I've gathered from this board is that people have this crazy notion of a perfect game, where there are no possible exploits and everyone is forced to play "the right way."

The truth of the matter is that game is a LONG ways away, if we're ever gonna see it at all. People will ALWAYS find a strategy or tactic that the "sim" community won't like, and they'll complain about it. Even if it WAS possible to make an exploit-free game, the same people online who use exploits now wouldn't suddenly become sim, so you'd STILL be complaining, even if you held LeBron James to 6/42 from the field.

I can't speak about others only myself. An exploit free game is one thing. It CAN exist but the amount of resources, I'm going to assume, would make the game non-profitable and/or wouldn't allow for them to move forward on additional aspects of the game. Which, like a shark, you stand still in the business you die. We know there will be glitches in all games.

Now , as far as I'm speaking, the programmers philosophy is what I'm talking about. If the programmer makes a game where a Lebron is capable of dropping 50 points a night if used right then I have no problem with that. If a programmer makes a game where Lebron will drop 50 points a night then I have a problem with that (Looking at 2K)

[RayAP19]

Re: People really should stop blaming the developers for non-sim online play

If the programmer makes a game where a Lebron is capable of dropping 50 points a night if used right then I have no problem with that. If a programmer makes a game where Lebron will drop 50 points a night then I have a problem with that (Looking at 2K)

I don't get what you mean

[pbz06]

Re: People really should stop blaming the developers for non-sim online play

Wow.

The game plays a sim level of basketball, but there's only so much the developers can do. They can't control the way the User plays.

Like in Madden, people go for it on 4th and 45 on their own 5 yard line. That's not the developers' fault. Or in NHL 09, everybody plays an "aggressive" offense and rushes the goal, regardless of the team they use. That's not the developers' fault. I can go on.

The groundwork is there for a sim experience. Sure it can be polished up gameplay wise, which you can see progress with every iteration of the game (or with any game).

But there's a certain responsibility that goes to the USER to not cheese and play realistically.

[chrome381]

Re: People really should stop blaming the developers for non-sim online play

I think what I've gathered from this board is that people have this crazy notion of a perfect game, where there are no possible exploits and everyone is forced to play "the right way."

The truth of the matter is that game is a LONG ways away, if we're ever gonna see it at all. People will ALWAYS find a strategy or tactic that the "sim" community won't like, and they'll complain about it. Even if it WAS possible to make an exploit-free game, the same people online who use exploits now wouldn't suddenly become sim, so you'd STILL be complaining, even if you held LeBron James to 6/42 from the field.

Of course they wouldn't become sim all we want is those idiots to be punished for holding on to turbo for the whole game and being picked off if they try to do a crossover with yao.

Thats all the developers will have to do and then the cheesers will have to adjust, and eventually some will realize that the game will not reward them for playing like ******s.

[totalownership]

Re: People really should stop blaming the developers for non-sim online play

If the programmer makes a game where a Lebron is capable of dropping 50 points a night if used right then I have no problem with that. If a programmer makes a game where Lebron will drop 50 points a night then I have a problem with that (Looking at 2K)

I don't get what you mean

What I mean is that if the user uses Lebron and his team correctly (setting up plays, getting mismatches, catching the defense sleeping etc.) he should be able to go nuts with Lebron but if the user barely has knowledge that there are 10 players on the court he shouldn't be able to do squat. As opposed to "other" games where the cpu bends over backwards to make sure Lebron gets his amounts of points where all the user has to to do is move close and shoot.

[jfsolo]

Re: People really should stop blaming the developers for non-sim online play

I think what I've gathered from this board is that people have this crazy notion of a perfect game, where there are no possible exploits and everyone is forced to play "the right way."

The truth of the matter is that game is a LONG ways away, if we're ever gonna see it at all. People will ALWAYS find a strategy or tactic that the "sim" community won't like, and they'll complain about it. Even if it WAS possible to make an exploit-free game, the same people online who use exploits now wouldn't suddenly become sim, so you'd STILL be complaining, even if you held LeBron James to 6/42 from the field.

If the game played in such a way where a cheddar player went 6/42 with LeBron, I most definitely would not be complaining. I would be singing the praises of the development team day and night.

I also believe that the cheese boy would change his game up. Players don't want to look totally incompetent, getting their tail beat, game after game. Reality would set in and they would start to use the fundamentals of the game.

No one wants to shoot 25% from the field, with 35 turnovers and 50 fouls all the time.

[RayAP19]

Re: People really should stop blaming the developers for non-sim online play

What I mean is that if the user uses Lebron and his team correctly (setting up plays, getting mismatches, catching the defense sleeping etc.) he should be able to go nuts with Lebron but if the user barely has knowledge that there are 10 players on the court he shouldn't be able to do squat. As opposed to "other" games where the cpu bends over backwards to make sure Lebron gets his amounts of points where all the user has to to do is move close and shoot.

Well, I think that if people improved their defense, they'd be able to.

Everyone who considers themselves "sim" and goes online to play randoms probably considers themselves the Bad Boy Pistons of the online world. They think they're the greatest thing to happen to defense since Bill Russell, when in reality, the flaw is in their defense more than anything.

I played some guy yesterday in 2K9 who literally tried to score every point with Kobe Bryant. I had Utah, so you better believe Brewer or Kirilenko was on him at all times.

He came out like a house of fire, sure, but he never had a lead, and Kobe cooled off eventually because I adjusted.

At one point, he was shooting 90% from the field with 18 points, and by the end of the game, he had finished 14/30 because not only was he tired from not getting ANY rest all game, but my defense adjusted and slowed him down significantly. I also got him fouled out by drawing three charges with good defensive position (without using Lock-On D!)

[droopizzle34]

Re: People really should stop blaming the developers for non-sim online play

This.

That they even try to exploit the game or play without utilizing real basketball fundamentals is on the player, that they can have great success doing so, is squarely on the developers.

Maybe I'm wrong, and we're still not there yet, but I believe we've reached a point where the hardware is advanced enough to eliminate the overwhelming majority of these exploits. Not 100%, but enough so that it is no longer a viable strategy for winning.

I think what I've gathered from this board is that people have this crazy notion of a perfect game, where there are no possible exploits and everyone is forced to play "the right way."

The truth of the matter is that game is a LONG ways away, if we're ever gonna see it at all. People will ALWAYS find a strategy or tactic that the "sim" community won't like, and they'll complain about it. Even if it WAS possible to make an exploit-free game, the same people online who use exploits now wouldn't suddenly become sim, so you'd STILL be complaining, even if you held LeBron James to 6/42 from the field.

both of these posts are well said.

IMO both the coummunity and the devs. are to blame. As an athlete, I hate the way competitive sports like football and basketball are played on video games. As an athlete you know half or all the cheese tactics in video games would not fly in a real game.
Both are to blame,but the gamers are more to catch anger from me,because you don't have to exploit,you can play sim,and it's very easy. I think EA should go the 2k route and take records out of online play and just do in depth player reviews so we know who to play and who to avoid online. Leaderboards and being "ranked in the top 100" causes these idiots to do what they do,and why? I've never seen the number one player get laid or get free VIP entrance to the club because they're number one,so its dumb.

[totalownership]

Re: People really should stop blaming the developers for non-sim online play

Well, I think that if people improved their defense, they'd be able to.

Well I don't know how much more one can improve their defense when Lebron passes right through you like Nightcrawler on his way for a dunk. I've played many games with 2K's game to know their intent is on fun first and sim second. I've posted a video displaying the epitome of what 2K's game is all about and I've yet to read a good explanation. What Lebron does here is NOT humanly possible. No person on the face of this earth can do that.


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I can't talk about Live's game as I've only played the demo but as far as 2K's I know what it's about.

[TMagic]

Re: People really should stop blaming the developers for non-sim online play

I've posted a video displaying the epitome of what 2K's game is all about and I've yet to read a good explanation. What Lebron does here is NOT humanly possible. No person on the face of this earth can do that.


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That was an EXCELLENT defensive play.

The user anticipated that you were going to shoot after he got hit with the pick, he knew you were going to shoot, so he reacted with great timing and was able to block the shot. An excellent, EXCELLENT defensive play indeed.