CPU freestyle moves

[darrenp1518]

I have a hard time understanding why EA has such a strong ball handling system and then doesn't have the cpu ball handlers take advantage of this to get by the defenders. I would have put this in the impressions thread for the demo but im not just talking about the new live 10 demo that came out.

For instance last year EA had a great idea with the DNA for each specific player but the reason that it doesnt play out the right way is because when you play the computer you never get the feeling that the CPU player with the ball in his hands ever THINKS about how he's going to score. Its as if the cpu plays just like a computer instead of sizing up defenders and taking a little time to create space on their defenders they immediately jack up shots when they first get the slightest amount of space. While this makes the computer tough to guard it is not at all realistic!!

Although kobe does catch and shoot...more often than not he's going to size up his defender for a few seconds and then attack after he sees how they are playing him. The same thing goes for bigs like pau gasol. These guys actually use triple threat moves to get the defender leaning!! It would drastically improve the cpu gameplay if this was implemented. I do this against the cpu defenders and it would improve the gameplay so much to see the cpu use the same moves that are available to them and that i use against them!! I dont really see the point of having these moves if the cpu never attempts to use them. Eventually it gives u a cheesy feeling everytime the cpu scores because you dont feel like they've earned it

[RayAllen20]

Re: CPU freestyle moves

To me this has completely changed. Jameer has drove right past me in the demo. Kobe is at times unstoppable. This year more than ever players choose to attack you at times they like to. When the game is close look for Kobe and Wade to take over. When its not close they relax. Wade and LeBron supposedly iso tons in this game. Look at Da Czars preview, he explains a lot of this.

[SpSoloSr]

Re: CPU freestyle moves

I know exactly what the OP is talkin about.

As a defender, in a real basketball game, you can always say that there is a sense of anxiety if the person with the ball hasn't committed to one direction or one move yet. You have to play them for what they give you. In most of the past Lives, the computer doesn't give you that anxiety. If anything, they become very predictable in their attack scheme and how they want to score. The AI might exploit a miss match by shooting over a smaller player or going at a bigger one, but there's no set up for either play and ultimately we end up with really unrealistic strategies by the cpu.

[darrenp1518]

Re: CPU freestyle moves

I know exactly what the OP is talkin about.

As a defender, in a real basketball game, you can always say that there is a sense of anxiety if the person with the ball hasn't committed to one direction or one move yet. You have to play them for what they give you. In most of the past Lives, the computer doesn't give you that anxiety. If anything, they become very predictable in their attack scheme and how they want to score. The AI might exploit a miss match by shooting over a smaller player or going at a bigger one, but there's no set up for either play and ultimately we end up with really unrealistic strategies by the cpu.

Ya exactly my point...now dont get me wrong!! the cpu attacks with the superstars in the live 10 demo like i've never seen in a video game.

But i think the best word to use in this case is PATIENCE...the cpu players react based on a code that tells them when they have an open shot and they play exactly like that and become very predictable, rather than chaining together a set of moves with the ballhandler to get the defense off track and then stepping back for the midrange jumper.

I know im being picky because live still does this better than 2k...but it just frustrates me because this simple addition would allow me to play the cpu instead of playing online all of the time.

In short there is not enough use of the new size up move by the cpu which should have been so easy to implement!! and there is too much catch and shoot by the scorers rather than clearing it out for the medium range jumper off the dribble.

[NINJAK2]

Re: CPU freestyle moves

Ya exactly my point...now dont get me wrong!! the cpu attacks with the superstars in the live 10 demo like i've never seen in a video game.

But i think the best word to use in this case is PATIENCE...the cpu players react based on a code that tells them when they have an open shot and they play exactly like that and become very predictable, rather than chaining together a set of moves with the ballhandler to get the defense off track and then stepping back for the midrange jumper.

I know im being picky because live still does this better than 2k...but it just frustrates me because this simple addition would allow me to play the cpu instead of playing online all of the time.

In short there is not enough use of the new size up move by the cpu which should have been so easy to implement!! and there is too much catch and shoot by the scorers rather than clearing it out for the medium range jumper off the dribble.

That may be an unfair request darren because no cpu a.i. in a hoop video game will ever get that organic feel of individual ball players right to perfection. NBA players have tendencies to do specific things but a lot of what they do is based on how the d is playing him and not just based on where he is on a specific part of the floor. Video Games still have to rely on strict coded behavior in order to act imo.

[SpSoloSr]

Re: CPU freestyle moves

I don't think it's being picky. It's been the same thing with 2K in previous years too. Basketball AI is just something that is flawed. It's hard to truly replicate real life. I think EA has taken a better step in it by using DNA to focus more on tendencies and better playbooks, but ultimately everything the cpu does is practically scripted in my opinion...

[NINJAK2]

Re: CPU freestyle moves

I don't think it's being picky. It's been the same thing with 2K in previous years too. Basketball AI is just something that is flawed. It's hard to truly replicate real life. I think EA has taken a better step in it by using DNA to focus more on tendencies and better playbooks, but ultimately everything the cpu does is practically scripted in my opinion...

Exactly. I wasn't saying he was being picky. I was just saying something like what he is asking for is very hard to replicate in a video game. I'd love to have it, I just don't think it's possible without a lot more research and tendencies and it still wouldn't be spot on. Real Kobe or D-Ho will always be more unpredictable in their methods than the virtual ones because the CPU will always lack that true human element of unpredictability.

[darrenp1518]

Re: CPU freestyle moves

Exactly. I wasn't saying he was being picky. I was just saying something like what he is asking for is very hard to replicate in a video game. I'd love to have it, I just don't think it's possible without a lot more research and tendencies and it still wouldn't be spot on. Real Kobe or D-Ho will always be more unpredictable in their methods than the virtual ones because the CPU will always lack that true human element of unpredictability.

I definitely see your point as i didnt quite see it that way, but i still have a better solution to what live is doing since it is so hard to script this.

Im basically saying that instead of having point guards waste time at the top of the key dribbling the life out of the basketball, i think it would look much better to have scripted size up moves/triple threat moves as soon as they receive the ball to give it a more realistic feel even if it is scripted. At least you can feel as if they are trying to assess the defense and exploit it!!

Im just basically asking that instead of having the cpu dribble around without using dribbling moves we should almost see them overdue the dribbling moves because thats what basketball is all about.

Tons of triple threat moves and size up dribble moves. It happens so often in the game that i think ppl dont realize it. Just pay attention to the difference in user freestyling moves compared to the amount of times the cpu does it and its not anywhere near close.

[Playmakers]

Re: CPU freestyle moves

I got nothing else to say about this matter.......I noticed this non-sense after about 3 games vs the CPU.

It should be fixed in the Final Version that's what the consensus believes....

[carnalnirvana]

Re: CPU freestyle moves

in live 09 the cpu can dribble its just that the ratings dont let the game play that way

the cpu can break you down and drive using all the moves if the game is set up that way, live 09 is set up to run plays and look like a training video that why it plays that way, my game does not play like that

however the eploitation of the mis match is not in the game logic but if you want then to play REAL ball they can play better

[navyboy09]

Re: CPU freestyle moves

Im just basically asking that instead of having the cpu dribble around without using dribbling moves we should almost see them overdue the dribbling moves because thats what basketball is all about.

I understand the agrument that yall are having but this part of your statement have already been addressed. Mike commented in the demo thread that this is fixed in the final version. He said that the computer won't just stand there with the ball and then try to fire up a bad shot at the end of the shot clock.

So the cpu will run their offense like they supposed to. We already complained about this cause it is a little aggravating and unrealistic.

[SpSoloSr]

Re: CPU freestyle moves

I understand the agrument that yall are having but this part of your statement have already been addressed. Mike commented in the demo thread that this is fixed in the final version. He said that the computer won't just stand there with the ball and then try to fire up a bad shot at the end of the shot clock.

So the cpu will run their offense like they supposed to. We already complained about this cause it is a little aggravating and unrealistic.

I don't think that's what he's worried about. I believe the original concern is that the computer does not look to implement the dribbling mechanics that the user is allowed to use (i.e. hesitation dripples, crossovers, pump fakes, or any combination of two, plus others) in an effort to set up their scoring opportunity.

P.S.- I believe this also applies to the post as well. Computer hardly ever try to play the post like a post player should.

[Playmakers]

Re: CPU freestyle moves

in live 09 the cpu can dribble its just that the ratings dont let the game play that way

the cpu can break you down and drive using all the moves if the game is set up that way, live 09 is set up to run plays and look like a training video that why it plays that way, my game does not play like that

however the eploitation of the mis match is not in the game logic but if you want then to play REAL ball they can play better

Well it's going to be kinda difficult to do this year because they removed seversal key ratings.

But you can overide the DNA but using your own ratings that fits your style of play.

I did that last year after giving the DNA updates about 3 months to make a difference....this year i won't waite that long. I'll give it like 1 month and if it doesn't feel right to me I'll start to overide the DNA again and make the game become dominated by ratings and playbooks instead of percentage's and tendencies.

One thing i hated was that a high flyer like Josh Smith would settle for jumpers even on a fastbreak in Live 09. You had to basically give him like 99 aggressiveness and then tweak his DNA aswell just finally get him to run the floor and look to dunk on the break.

It wasn't until i finally decided to overide the DNA's and force the game to go off ratings and playbooks before i had fun with it. But the animations last year killed it completely for me.

[carnalnirvana]

Re: CPU freestyle moves

Well it's going to be kinda difficult to do this year because they removed seversal key ratings.

But you can overide the DNA but using your own ratings that fits your style of play.

I did that last year after giving the DNA updates about 3 months to make a difference....this year i won't waite that long. I'll give it like 1 month and if it doesn't feel right to me I'll start to overide the DNA again and make the game become dominated by ratings and playbooks instead of percentage's and tendencies.

One thing i hated was that a high flyer like Josh Smith would settle for jumpers even on a fastbreak in Live 09. You had to basically give him like 99 aggressiveness and then tweak his DNA aswell just finally get him to run the floor and look to dunk on the break.

It wasn't until i finally decided to overide the DNA's and force the game to go off ratings and playbooks before i had fun with it. But the animations last year killed it completely for me.

i dont know if you still have 09 but GIVE ANY DUDE 90 inside shot likelyhood who likes to drive and on a break its an auto dunk, on steals they jet,


the shot likelyhood was way too low last year for all categories and the KEY to me is the shooter mentality give a guy like kobe a 90 mid range likelyhood but a 65 ish shooter mentality, so when he gets the rock he does triple threat or pulls up, or drives BUT he wont just jack up jumpers alone....

you want the cpu to break you down give them better hands on the perimeter and low shooter mentality this way they dont just pull it all day.

logicically some things i could not fix but my game played sweet i am so dissapointed they removed alot of ratings that tailored 09, the only reason i a looking forward to live 10 is that its not stiff and herky jerky as 09

[darrenp1518]

Re: CPU freestyle moves

i dont know if you still have 09 but GIVE ANY DUDE 90 inside shot likelyhood who likes to drive and on a break its an auto dunk, on steals they jet,


the shot likelyhood was way too low last year for all categories and the KEY to me is the shooter mentality give a guy like kobe a 90 mid range likelyhood but a 65 ish shooter mentality, so when he gets the rock he does triple threat or pulls up, or drives BUT he wont just jack up jumpers alone....

you want the cpu to break you down give them better hands on the perimeter and low shooter mentality this way they dont just pull it all day.

logicically some things i could not fix but my game played sweet i am so dissapointed they removed alot of ratings that tailored 09, the only reason i a looking forward to live 10 is that its not stiff and herky jerky as 09

ok this is good to know and im glad someone else posted that they fixed the pg issue at the top of the key (sorry idk who it was). But this is all good news and i gave up on live last year so i did kind of forget that manually changing those ratings did result in much better gameplay. So i guess we should be fine. We just might have a lot of work ahead of us, but im willing to do it to make the perfect game. I cant say the same for alot of other ppl though!