Wide open shots miss more than contested shots

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  • HOLLIDAY1183
    Rookie
    • Oct 2008
    • 459

    #61
    Re: Wide open shots miss more than contested shots

    Originally posted by Da_Czar
    This type of oversimplification is killing the argument. Of COURSE people miss wide open shots. It happens all the time. Come on people since when does being wide open mean a shot goes in 100 percent of the time.

    I'm not saying there is not an issue. I don't see one when I play however I don't play online right now either. That said no one shoots 100% of uncontested shots. when you make such gross oversimplifications it really clouds the issue and becomes more about proving reality than that there is an issue.
    Co-sign Czar & bigsmallwood. I've been playing this game nonstop with my boy and my bro since 10/3. We have used darn near every team in that time. I'm also 20 games into a Dynasty with the Nuggets. And all I can think of is, you guys seeing this issue must have gotten "special" copies of the game.

    We must have played hundreds of games by now, and trust me, I DARE you to leave Billups or JR open. Ditto for Granger, my boy torches me with him all day. He runs this play where Granger ends up in the far corner off a few screens and has a good look. When Granger is open, he may miss a few times, but for the most part I just get ready to inbound if he's open. Man, oh man, he's prob averaging 35 against me. My brother uses Detroit, and he does nothing but call plays all day. It's VERY annoying, becuz he has mastered getting Hamilton open for midrangers. When he's open, it's money WAY MORE than when contested. Same for Ben Gordon. Golly jeez this guy lights me up lol. My boy also uses PHX, and he does P & R's all day with Nash & Amare. If Nash ends up open, he pulls and it's $$. But Amare also, sometimes he has Amare stay put because I'll overplay Nash (after him hitting 4 straight SMH) and if Amare has a look it's $$. I use the Hornets a lot too because I like bigs that can shoot. West will hit 8-10 or better when open. My boy always saying, "you ain't s***, all you do is pick n roll and kick out to West and Peja, and you run everything off of that!!" But he can't stop it. Why? Because the way I set up the play, I send Peja to the corner, call for West to screen, and let West pop out for the J top of the key. If he overplays West, CP drives for a nice eurostep or hopstep into the lane, help comes and Peja gets a look at 3. If he cuts off Paul, West gets the kickout top of the key, and it's money if he has sight. If he switches, I get a mismatch with a big on Paul.

    This all works wonderfully because of the %'s when open, which is actually what this thread is complaining about LOL. I've had West go 14-17 games because my bro just refuses to respect his range. Same with Melo, my bro refuses to let him into the lane because of his high contact % DNA rating and general beastliness inside, so he gives the long range J to him. Result? Games of 12-19, 16-26 from the field. All because guys are open.

    One of my fave teams to use is the Heat in the game, because Wade is so nasty. But since the Heat don't have many knockdown shooters, my boys always sending so much helps all the time with no fear of kickouts. So Wade is always shooting in traffic or in at least moderate contesting. As a result, I have yet to shoot over 50% with him. It's usually like 10-24, 11-27 just because he is never left open.

    The reason I think you guys got "special" copies is becuz of this: When I get in these guys faces, they're missing at a good clip. Granger, Wade, etc, may hit some in my face, granted. But when open, or in Nash, Hamilton & Granger's case, just have some daylight, it's these times when they're killing me.

    I say all that to say this: There is NO WAY it is strictly % based. Guys like blues rocker stating that the game is "flawed" even telling a Live producer how the game works. SMH. Talking like it's scientific fact when it in actuality is YOUR experience with the game. YOU are seeing that. I'm not. Haven't seen it once. When I see Ray Allen open my boy is basically already throwing up the 3 sign and screaming "CASH!!" and I'm mentally preparing to inbound. When my boy sees Granger flashing to the corner, his man caught in a screen, and he flicks the freestyle stick to hit Granger, I always feel that fear because I know it's bout to be $$ in the bank and I'm trying like all heck to get over there.

    So please stop talking like this % issue you're seeing is scientific fact, much the same as the law of inertia. That's your opinion and what you've experienced.

    NOTE: We only play on Superstar, 8 or 9 Min Qtrs FWIW
    NOW PLAYING:
    NBA 2K16, MGS5

    WAITING FOR:
    Fallout 4

    Wife: "Of course he's going out to get his 2K game at 12am, like he can't wait til tomorrow."
    Wife's mom: "Be grateful that's what he's running out at midnight for."

    Comment

    • loadleft
      Rookie
      • Oct 2005
      • 284

      #62
      Re: Wide open shots miss more than contested shots

      My fear with this kinda thing is "the squeaky wheel gets the oil." I saw that someone mentioned that the forum is already dead, and Live has hit the wall. This is supposedly an indication of the majority having a consensus on issues such as the OP's. I think most are enjoying the game now and have no need to post and now only the complainers are posting and I fear EA will adjust something in response to most of the post they see are complaints. I agree there are many problems with this game but they are mostly all minor ones. As far as the OP's premise I am just going to say it: "you're not doing it right", LOL. I know that's taboo to say here but I keep wondering why no one reacts with the most obvious answer when they see things like this in their gameplay? Why not: "I need to up my skill in this area?" Isn't the fact that even one person doesn't share your experience at missing wide open shots proof that it's possible that wide open shots don't randomly miss? That should lead to another question: Why is he hitting them and I am not, could it be that he's better at it? Then: "well how can I improve?" That seems like an obvious train of thought to me. Either way I've spent a lot of time posted tips trying to help quell concerns like the OP's, I tried to start a thread that would get stickied with such tips to no avail. At this point I just hope the DEVs don't think the bulk of us share this experience and adjust something that makes things to easy.

      Comment

      • Bootzilla
        MVP
        • Jul 2002
        • 1433

        #63
        Re: Wide open shots miss more than contested shots

        Originally posted by HOLLIDAY1183
        Co-sign Czar & bigsmallwood. I've been playing this game nonstop with my boy and my bro since 10/3. We have used darn near every team in that time. I'm also 20 games into a Dynasty with the Nuggets. And all I can think of is, you guys seeing this issue must have gotten "special" copies of the game.

        We must have played hundreds of games by now, and trust me, I DARE you to leave Billups or JR open. Ditto for Granger, my boy torches me with him all day. He runs this play where Granger ends up in the far corner off a few screens and has a good look. When Granger is open, he may miss a few times, but for the most part I just get ready to inbound if he's open. Man, oh man, he's prob averaging 35 against me. My brother uses Detroit, and he does nothing but call plays all day. It's VERY annoying, becuz he has mastered getting Hamilton open for midrangers. When he's open, it's money WAY MORE than when contested. Same for Ben Gordon. Golly jeez this guy lights me up lol. My boy also uses PHX, and he does P & R's all day with Nash & Amare. If Nash ends up open, he pulls and it's $$. But Amare also, sometimes he has Amare stay put because I'll overplay Nash (after him hitting 4 straight SMH) and if Amare has a look it's $$. I use the Hornets a lot too because I like bigs that can shoot. West will hit 8-10 or better when open. My boy always saying, "you ain't s***, all you do is pick n roll and kick out to West and Peja, and you run everything off of that!!" But he can't stop it. Why? Because the way I set up the play, I send Peja to the corner, call for West to screen, and let West pop out for the J top of the key. If he overplays West, CP drives for a nice eurostep or hopstep into the lane, help comes and Peja gets a look at 3. If he cuts off Paul, West gets the kickout top of the key, and it's money if he has sight. If he switches, I get a mismatch with a big on Paul.

        This all works wonderfully because of the %'s when open, which is actually what this thread is complaining about LOL. I've had West go 14-17 games because my bro just refuses to respect his range. Same with Melo, my bro refuses to let him into the lane because of his high contact % DNA rating and general beastliness inside, so he gives the long range J to him. Result? Games of 12-19, 16-26 from the field. All because guys are open.

        One of my fave teams to use is the Heat in the game, because Wade is so nasty. But since the Heat don't have many knockdown shooters, my boys always sending so much helps all the time with no fear of kickouts. So Wade is always shooting in traffic or in at least moderate contesting. As a result, I have yet to shoot over 50% with him. It's usually like 10-24, 11-27 just because he is never left open.

        The reason I think you guys got "special" copies is becuz of this: When I get in these guys faces, they're missing at a good clip. Granger, Wade, etc, may hit some in my face, granted. But when open, or in Nash, Hamilton & Granger's case, just have some daylight, it's these times when they're killing me.

        I say all that to say this: There is NO WAY it is strictly % based. Guys like blues rocker stating that the game is "flawed" even telling a Live producer how the game works. SMH. Talking like it's scientific fact when it in actuality is YOUR experience with the game. YOU are seeing that. I'm not. Haven't seen it once. When I see Ray Allen open my boy is basically already throwing up the 3 sign and screaming "CASH!!" and I'm mentally preparing to inbound. When my boy sees Granger flashing to the corner, his man caught in a screen, and he flicks the freestyle stick to hit Granger, I always feel that fear because I know it's bout to be $$ in the bank and I'm trying like all heck to get over there.

        So please stop talking like this % issue you're seeing is scientific fact, much the same as the law of inertia. That's your opinion and what you've experienced.

        NOTE: We only play on Superstar, 8 or 9 Min Qtrs FWIW
        Excellent post. I'm glad i purchased the same game you got and not that "special copy".

        Comment

        • loadleft
          Rookie
          • Oct 2005
          • 284

          #64
          Re: Wide open shots miss more than contested shots

          Originally posted by Bootzilla
          Excellent post. I'm glad i purchased the same game you got and not that "special copy".
          Me Too!!! LOL

          Comment

          • UK_Bullsfan
            Rookie
            • Oct 2009
            • 69

            #65
            Re: Wide open shots miss more than contested shots

            Originally posted by michaeljordanjr
            You missed the point of this thread. The contested shots are going in more than the uncontested shots....
            I didn't, I was just trying to explain that the whole thing is based on chance. You are more likely to hit an open shot than a contested shot in this game. It would be fundamentally ******** for any developer to not program a basketball game in this way.

            I know that sometimes the CPU will hit a well contested shot.. with you then missing an open jumper the very next possession. Its frustrating but it is just that the dice didn't roll your way that time. Over the course of the game If you contest shots well you will bring down the fg% more than if you left them all open. Same with you on offence, if you take a load of contested shots you will end up with a much worse fg% than if you take open shots over the course of the game.

            It is not scripted, as an example, the DNA for your player might have a 20% chance of hitting a contested jumper and a 50% of making an open one from exactly the same spot on the court.

            If you take 10 contested shots you will likely hit 2, if you take 10 open you will likely hit about 5. However there is a chance you could hit 10 contested shots and no open ones.. its down to luck but you win by playing to the odds correctly and forcing the other team into bad shots that they are more likely to miss.

            Just like in real life a contested shot doesnt = miss and an open shot doesnt = score. Its just more likely that you will hit an open shot. Live 10 is extremely well balanced and realistic with its shooting percentages, 2K's game works in exactly the same way but the chances of hitting shots is higher and it leads to unrealistic fg%.

            Comment

            • Boilerbuzz
              D* B**rs!
              • Jul 2002
              • 5154

              #66
              Re: Wide open shots miss more than contested shots

              Originally posted by loadleft
              I think most are enjoying the game now and have no need to post and now only the complainers are posting and I fear EA will adjust something in response to most of the post they see are complaints.
              Wow. That's one incredible stretch there man.

              Just... Wow.

              Comment

              • ehh
                Hall Of Fame
                • Mar 2003
                • 28962

                #67
                Re: Wide open shots miss more than contested shots

                Shooting in general is starting to really, really annoy me in this game. I can't find a good release for any player, it feels like it varies from shot to shot. I thought I had Wilson Chandler down (a real late release) because I had about a dozen games where I was knocking down most open shots with him. Then all of a sudden I can't make anything with him for 5-6 games so I try shooting with him using a real early release and he goes 4-7 from downtown in that game. It makes absolutely no sense.

                Especially using a team like the Knicks where I shoot so many three's and jumpers in general this is so frustrating right now. Nate, Harrington, Chandler, Gallinari, etc - all brick city. I don't think I've had a game in my last 20 or so games using the Knicks where I've shot over 25% from three.
                "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

                "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

                Comment

                • Pared
                  Legen - WAIT FOR IT
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 39337

                  #68
                  Re: Wide open shots miss more than contested shots

                  I've found success (if you can call it that) with the Knicks and other teams by holding the shoot button very long.

                  Hold it to where they almost on their way down from the peak of their jump. There is a hitch in the animation you'll see if you get it right.

                  To me, that has always seemed like the "perfect" release point in the game.
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                  [OS Vets NBA 2k7 Champion]
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                  Operation Sports is NOT a website for you to bitch and moan about sports gaming.
                  That's not the meaning of constructive criticism.

                  *Official Miami Heat Haters Club Member #1*

                  Comment

                  • ehh
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Mar 2003
                    • 28962

                    #69
                    Re: Wide open shots miss more than contested shots

                    Yeah, that's what I had been doing. Chandler's feet would practically land on the floor I held down the button so long on his stroke. I guess I'll go back to that, it's what I had the most success with the first week I had the game.
                    "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

                    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

                    Comment

                    • fluent2332
                      MVP
                      • Aug 2005
                      • 1735

                      #70
                      Re: Wide open shots miss more than contested shots

                      Originally posted by Pared
                      I've found success (if you can call it that) with the Knicks and other teams by holding the shoot button very long.

                      Hold it to where they almost on their way down from the peak of their jump. There is a hitch in the animation you'll see if you get it right.

                      To me, that has always seemed like the "perfect" release point in the game.
                      I try to learn one team really well so I can get their shot releases down. I noticed the hitch thing as well. Captain Jack's release to me is when he's almost on his way down, even though it doesn't look all that fluid, it's the best release point. Curry's has a slight hitch though not as bad. Morrow is a more quick release. Randolph's release is very very quick, if you hold it to the hitch you will throw up a brick. It does depend on the player and sometimes the hitch is definitely the right release point, though it's not the same across the board.

                      Oh, Acie Law too, you have to hold the button forever...

                      Comment

                      • Boilerbuzz
                        D* B**rs!
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 5154

                        #71
                        Re: Wide open shots miss more than contested shots

                        Originally posted by Pared
                        I've found success (if you can call it that) with the Knicks and other teams by holding the shoot button very long.

                        Hold it to where they almost on their way down from the peak of their jump. There is a hitch in the animation you'll see if you get it right.

                        To me, that has always seemed like the "perfect" release point in the game.
                        You're right. The game has a late release point. The timing is not how you're taught in real life, but once you get it down, it's all good.

                        Comment

                        • fluent2332
                          MVP
                          • Aug 2005
                          • 1735

                          #72
                          Re: Wide open shots miss more than contested shots

                          I wonder if the late release is an error in the programming. Sort of like a lag that shouldn't be there. Visually it does not look like it's the right release, and what this guy up here said ^, it's not how you're taught IRL

                          Comment

                          • michaeljordanjr
                            Banned
                            • Jun 2009
                            • 972

                            #73
                            Re: Wide open shots miss more than contested shots

                            Originally posted by Pared
                            I've found success (if you can call it that) with the Knicks and other teams by holding the shoot button very long.

                            Hold it to where they almost on their way down from the peak of their jump. There is a hitch in the animation you'll see if you get it right.

                            To me, that has always seemed like the "perfect" release point in the game.
                            This is my BIGGEST gripe. Is that you're right, there's "ONE" perfect release point even for guys like Battier, Aaron Brooks, or even McGrady(I play with the Rockets).

                            Normally swift releases I have to hold for like 2 seconds@!!!

                            It's frustrating as heck..

                            Comment

                            • loadleft
                              Rookie
                              • Oct 2005
                              • 284

                              #74
                              Re: Wide open shots miss more than contested shots

                              Try this:

                              The game varies the release points of all shooters based on what seems to be momentum. This makes it difficult for users to get shooter's feel. However, if you notice by looking closely ALL jump shooters in the game share one particular motion. They all arch there backs or lean back as they shoot, and they do this whether it's a fade-a-way, drift to one side or any other type of jump shot. The perfect release for all jumpers is right when this back arching stops. So just watch your shooter as he begins to lean back get ready and then let go just as he stops. I promise you your wide open fg % as well as contested ones will go up if you do this. Now you'll also now notice that the timing of this is different with all players and for different situations but it doesn't matter because when they stop arching is your que to release the button.

                              Comment

                              • neegotiator
                                Rookie
                                • Aug 2009
                                • 97

                                #75
                                Re: Wide open shots miss more than contested shots

                                Originally posted by michaeljordanjr
                                This is my BIGGEST gripe. Is that you're right, there's "ONE" perfect release point even for guys like Battier, Aaron Brooks, or even McGrady(I play with the Rockets).

                                Normally swift releases I have to hold for like 2 seconds@!!!

                                It's frustrating as heck..
                                really? I play rockets too, and yeah AB and TMac have very late release points (TMac I think even later than AB). But Battier I've had to release very early to make shots. Same w/ Lowry, Ariza feels like he has an earlier release point but haven't had much success with him, still need to work on him.

                                Comment

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