Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Vision Developer Diary

[ScoobySnax]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

LOL @ Rock.

It can't be doom and gloom all the time like some people are making it out to be. I seriously like the amount of control (especially with that euro step). I'm not worried about the sig shots because I know all of that will be tweaked and perfected on when it releases. Being that it's four months prior to release, I'm happy. Hopefully, E3 gives us a little more to go on.

My only negative would be the net physics. Something just looked off there. I liked how they were in 10 for the most part. They just need to add a lot more variations.

[23]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

Since I shot with Elite 11 and Live 10 and 09 and others I think I may have some type opinion on it, How was your Elite 11 experience.....OH WAIT.......................Or Maybe I'm just not understanding what you are saying.....

Im sorry that I couldnt make it up there with you guys but at the same time, you arent being honest here and I just dont think that its helping the team at all.

Regardless of your opinion of seeing Elite in whatever stage it is in, we had so many people complaining about popping 3's with mo williams from the corner without any worry from the defense that it wasnt funny. Guys mastered the shot in Live 09 knowing when it was going in, I just explained this.

Now from editing the wazoo out of Live 10, I think my opinion holds some weight seeing as I was able to get the game to stop doing some of this same stuff they are calling garbage in that video by going through the hill of ratings in the game that weren't adjusted properly.

I know how alot of that stuff was messed up and im sorry but the shooting has never been about luck. No kind of marketing ever will change that fact. Shoot it went from NBA Hotspots to taking a jumper off the hitch.

I showed guys on this very board how to master Billups jumpshot and so on, I had Melo down pat... Look at the Mix I made sir, and tell me all of Melo's jumpers were just luck<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jEG_uttl8fQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jEG_uttl8fQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


Come on man, if you want to help EA just be honest with them and let them do it right so we can all enjoy the game as fans of the game, but im not falling into marketing talks and schemes this year man, I want to challenge the devs to make the best game they can.

[ajknows]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

I think this vid did more harm than good. This may be something you have to fill in the control than watch. But I was hoping with the physics engine the movement would look alot smoother. I know people will say it's an early build but that gets said every year. But what you see now is close, don't expect some major changes. Think live 10 with better control.... thats not a bad thing.

[rockchisler]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

LOL @ Rock.

It can't be doom and gloom all the time like some people are making it out to be. I seriously like the amount of control (especially with that euro step). I'm not worried about the sig shots because I know all of that will be tweaked and perfected on when it releases. Being that it's four months prior to release, I'm happy. Hopefully, E3 gives us a little more to go on.

My only negative would be the net physics. Something just looked off there. I liked how they were in 10 for the most part. They just need to add a lot more variations.

The net Physics are way off, I just think that needs to be tuned also

[TreyIM2]

Can't single out EA, other companies do it...Just indirectly. We buy flawed products every year from EA/Sony/2ksports, EA just chose to tell you their **** is flawed.

Good point. Glad u see this. It's all apart of selling the product. I will admit that some of the stuff said sounded like when EA was talking about Live 10 causing my eye to twitch. Lol. Good thing we have demos and can try things out for ourselves before we buy them.

At any rate, people are definitely over-reacting to such obviously early footage of the game. Look at how bare the arena looks and the fact that it's a 1 on 1 situation with no other players in site yet people are acting as if this is finished product they're looking at.

Anyway, I liked that dunk. So glad EA is getting that in the game care of this new physics engine.

[Tha_Kid]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

@ Dre

You're not wrong but you're not right either. Allow me to present an alternate opinion:

While shooting has never been about luck, one can't deny that it can feel that way to some users. The idea with the stick is about giving the user more deliberate sense of control, not just affecting the shot's success but also the terms of the shot's failure (long/short/etc). As far as "one of the complaints we heard most" well I doubt that but i've seen enough people complain about things i thought were fine to not take issue. Consider that akin to using the phrase "night and day" to describe the improvements.

Yes, the suction and some of the other craziness was coming from ratings, but why take issue with bringing in a real time physics system? While actually hunkering down and redoing the ratings could bring about solutions to many of Live's problems, who knew the limits of that? As the gamer you're seeing the new animations play out, but as the developers I'm sure they know the limit, as well as the pros/cons of unlocking the old animations vs a new system that dynamically triggers them. One would think that the Physics system solves more than just the suction. Plus, I'd prefer they got rid 2 player animations as opposed to fine-tuning them so they only play out in reasonable situations.

It's also unfair to take issue with the "inability to foul" when that is an excerpt without context. When I heard it, I thought of situations where that was certainly true because of how Live 10 works. Yes, you're right in the general sense that overall the CPU wouldn't foul you but the reverse was true. On the flipside, how many fouls called against the user in Live 10 felt random, due in part to the 2 player suction animations? Turn it on and try to take a charge in the paint from a driving player.

To me, real physics is moving in the right direction. I've been waiting for NBA games to head away from "the battle of animations" until figuring that maybe it was a basketball video game "impossibility". While the physics i hoped for may indeed be an impossibility, i'm hopeful for Elite 11. I don't expect it to be full fledged, but it is a start.

[Shakedowncapo]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

At any rate, people are definitely over-reacting to such obviously early footage of the game. Look at how bare the arena looks and the fact that it's a 1 on 1 situation with no other players in site yet people are acting as if this is finished product they're looking at.

There's no over-reaction. The premise of the video was to compare the 1on1 play of Live '10 and Live '11. Now, if you were to watch that video with no volume and you played Live '10 a ton...Do you see much of a difference in Durant D'ing him up, or when he ran right into Jennings chest?

YES, its a short video. Yes, its an early video...But what the hell am I supposed to comment on if the video is about 1on1 defense and Im not recognizing the difference!

[Jano]

Re: New video: Debut Vision Dev Diary

Errr, yeah considering it's early June this video has me impressed. Durant dunking on Jennings alone, thank the f'n lord! No bad contact animation, no tiny 6' guard, standing still, stopping a 6'9 guy coming at him with a full head of steam dead in his tracks.

The last two clips of Jennings messing with the "EA Stick", those animations looked great. Jennings beating Durant with the spin move was nice too, no stupid sliding/recovery from the D.

Jennings being righty and not having his sig shot (one of the best in '10) doesn't concern me, I'm sure that'll come in down the line.

This, every animation they showed in this little vid was a lot better then the ones in Live 10 when it comes to 1 on 1 defense.

The shooting controls I cant comment on until I play it myself but the animations do look a lot smoother. I'm liking that the game is looking improved in ways that help it look better then Live 10 and in some cases 2K10, with regards to the suction and losing control of your player.

The fact that EA is trying to address that issue alone makes me excited b/c its definitely my biggest issue with bball games.

[gbx34]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

all i want is rim rattleing dunks

[23]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

@ Dre

You're not wrong but you're not right either. Allow me to present an alternate opinion:

Not a problem man

While shooting has never been about luck, one can't deny that it can feel that way to some users.

Im not talking about a feel sir, shooting jumpers has never been about luck period. This has never been said before by anyone I know or anything I have ever seen posted, talked about, read, reviewed, previewed, to be patched or anything.

Point blank, ratings, player skill, etc.. all went into the shot going in, not luck, but I digress.

The idea with the stick is about giving the user more deliberate sense of control, not just affecting the shot's success but also the terms of the shot's failure (long/short/etc).

To be honest, if they want to implement physics, more power to them, I am all for it, I am not bashing it, please move forward, I am not smashing on them implementing physics, that is not what i was getting at... just to be clear. I am waiting as you all are to see how it turns out in the end as well.
I've spoken a little about it to Yaw, im not here being the anti EA guy. I had a chance to visit the same event with those guys, just had personal things get in the way I could care less to post about.

As far as "one of the complaints we heard most" well I doubt that but i've seen enough people complain about things i thought were fine to not take issue. Consider that akin to using the phrase "night and day" to describe the improvements.

[COLOR="#ff0000"][COLOR="#ff0000"]What? There was a major issue, especially those playing online about Mo Williams, Mike Bibby and others shooting an extra high percentage from the 3pt line. Doubt all you want, just go read some of the threads yourself. I was here reading it over and over again

Yes, the suction and some of the other craziness was coming from ratings, but why take issue with bringing in a real time physics system?

Again, im not taking issue with that

While actually hunkering down and redoing the ratings could bring about solutions to many of Live's problems, who knew the limits of that? As the gamer you're seeing the new animations play out, but as the developers I'm sure they know the limit, as well as the pros/cons of unlocking the old animations vs a new system that dynamically triggers them. One would think that the Physics system solves more than just the suction. Plus, I'd prefer they got rid 2 player animations as opposed to fine-tuning them so they only play out in reasonable situations.

Again, im not against the physics system, but if it was known that the ratings adjustments would fix the game then the question is why werent they fixed?

It's also unfair to take issue with the "inability to foul" when that is an excerpt without context.

I see nothing unfair with something that was shown to me. I speak with Sovartus one on one all the time. The guy is very eloquent and can speak for himself which is fine with me, we are pretty good with eachother, thats why I addressed him about it.

When I heard it, I thought of situations where that was certainly true because of how Live 10 works. Yes, you're right in the general sense that overall the CPU wouldn't foul you but the reverse was true. On the flipside, how many fouls called against the user in Live 10 felt random, due in part to the 2 player suction animations? Turn it on and try to take a charge in the paint from a driving player.

You're proving my point for me and the same thing we have been talking about all year. They took out the charging animations and stuff from Live 09.. now you can check this video and see for yourself alot of the animations in place to block or charge. <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cdRGKdbSjGk&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_ US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cdRGKdbSjGk&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_ US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


It was one sided in favor of the CPU getting all the fouls in Live 10 sir.

[Tha_Kid]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

I was under the impression you were taking issue with the physics system when Live 10 had a solid base if they would've fixed the ratings. You're not, so my mistake.

I agreed with you about the fouls being in favor of the CPU Live 10. I played Live 09 as well, i know they were there before.

Signals crossed I guess on the shooting. I agreed with you about it not being luck, and i never said otherwise. I read through all those threads about guys shooting online with Mo Williams and generally being able to make every shot. I know I could make every shot with Mike Miller in Live 10 if i wanted. I was simply saying that for a casual player jumping into the game, there is an element of randomness to shooting. I was saying that I doubt that "shooting being luck" was one of the biggest complaints the Live devs heard, i wasn't talking about what you said.

As far as physics, my (guess/assumption/thing) is that physics system throws those two man animations out the window, so who cares why the ratings that governed them were untouched if its not a factor moving forward? Not trying to let them off the hook but at the same time is it the thing to take issue with?

[TreyIM2]

There's no over-reaction. The premise of the video was to compare the 1on1 play of Live '10 and Live '11. Now, if you were to watch that video with no volume and you played Live '10 a ton...Do you see much of a difference in Durant D'ing him up, or when he ran right into Jennings chest?

YES, its a short video. Yes, its an early video...But what the hell am I supposed to comment on if the video is about 1on1 defense and Im not recognizing the difference!

Point taken...but it's still early. EA does this with early vids, sometimes

[23]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

I was under the impression you were taking issue with the physics system when Live 10 had a solid base if they would've fixed the ratings. You're not, so my mistake.

I agreed with you about the fouls being in favor of the CPU Live 10. I played Live 09 as well, i know they were there before.

Signals crossed I guess on the shooting. I agreed with you about it not being luck, and i never said otherwise. I read through all those threads about guys shooting online with Mo Williams and generally being able to make every shot. I know I could make every shot with Mike Miller in Live 10 if i wanted. I was simply saying that for a casual player jumping into the game, there is an element of randomness to shooting. I was saying that I doubt that "shooting being luck" was one of the biggest complaints the Live devs heard, i wasn't talking about what you said.

As far as physics, my (guess/assumption/thing) is that physics system throws those two man animations out the window, so who cares why the ratings that governed them were untouched if its not a factor moving forward? Not trying to let them off the hook but at the same time is it the thing to take issue with?

I gotcha... I dont care about the ratings going forward, I was talking about this past years game, that it should've been addressed. Simply because everything is not labeled so you didnt know what everything did.

I mean one of the biggest issues with the demo and the game when it released was the ball being stripped easily in the paint on the drive almost no matter what, but it was a simple rating change that fixed that problem easy

That said im waiting to see how it turns out as well as the rest of everyone else. It sounds pretty exciting so we will see.

[ehh]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

@ 23, did you read my post in the first page addressing the shooting/luck thing?

I think you're taking a much different meaning than what Hockey Guy is implying. He's solely talking about the user, not all the under the hood stuff. Again, in the past all that mattered from a control perspective from the user was timing the release point properly. That's it. So you'd basically time your release and hope the shot went in. Nothing the user does effects if the shot is short, long, right or left. If you missed, how the shot was off target was completely random. In theory, that's going to change in Elite. Like I mentioned earlier, think Tiger Woods.

Ratings, the player's range, etc are not controlled by the user.

And if you're that upset with his comment about it being luck, well he is a hockey guy after all. Probably hasn't spent much time with basketball games in his past, he made one dumb comment. I don't think it's anything to get too riled up about.

[Tha_Kid]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

I love that we're calling him hockey guy. He'll have to earn a better nickname lol