What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

[willIam9387]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

I think the new skill based gameplay will kind of negatively effect the sim aspect of NBA Elite. Looking at the new controls, it looks difficult to actually play five on five basketball. Although, it might be fun to play one on one with the new skill based gameplay, it's going to be hard to play a team based game. The new shooting mechanic looks cool, but I will probably be hard to master. I'm going to give Elite a try, but I won't be surprised if I end up going back to 2K.

[rEAnimator]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

I think the new skill based gameplay will kind of negatively effect the sim aspect of NBA Elite. Looking at the new controls, it looks difficult to actually play five on five basketball. Although, it might be fun to play one on one with the new skill based gameplay, it's going to be hard to play a team based game. The new shooting mechanic looks cool, but I will probably be hard to master. I'm going to give Elite a try, but I won't be surprised if I end up going back to 2K.

What makes you think the experience won't translate well to 5v5?

I'm curious.

[randombrother]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

What makes you think the experience won't translate well to 5v5?

I'm curious.

I'm curious as well because I see this doing nothing but helping the sim aspect of the game honestly. The only Achilles heel I see is onine play and defense. I see that being pretty tough if there isn't a little help from the cpu to stay in front on defense with lag and latency.

EDIT: I also think speed might be a problem. I think it may be just a tad fast.

[P-Dub]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

I'm not quite sure but I don't think ratings were applied to the players in any of the videos that we have seen. Were are probably seeing everyone with max ratings. Plus, slowing it down lowers the responsiveness. I think an overall game or animation slider could keep everyone happy.

The one thing that bothers me about what the online play will be like is the delay factor from connection lag, especially for shooting. If they don't put in some kind of compensation, people will have to memorize the shot timing instead of releasing at the top of the jump because the actual visual will always happen a bit later then when we move the stick.

[Teebone21]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

I think the new skill based gameplay will kind of negatively effect the sim aspect of NBA Elite. Looking at the new controls, it looks difficult to actually play five on five basketball. Although, it might be fun to play one on one with the new skill based gameplay, it's going to be hard to play a team based game. The new shooting mechanic looks cool, but I will probably be hard to master. I'm going to give Elite a try, but I won't be surprised if I end up going back to 2K.

if its hard to master then get into practice mode and do it. 2k is hard to master for most new player but that shouldnt make you give up on the series. We all want a realistic game and they already said there is a learning curve this year. for goodness sakes lets have some cake

[2kfanatic]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

I hope I wont be considered as a troll because of my username lol but I actually liked how elite implemented jumpshots this year (right stick little to the left then it will go left). It does add control and I really hope 2k will copy this on its shot stick lol. Although I can imagine other people modding their controllers so that it will always go up perfectly when pushed but that's another story lol.

I just hope a good defender will narrow down the "sweet spot" so that defenders will be valued in the dynasty mode and online games.

What I did not like is the video between cousins and wall when lebron did a euro step and slid in place although its probably because its an early build and I hope that in the final product will penalize actions like that into a charging foul or something.

Well some people are skeptical about the physics thing (including me) cause I'm curious how the physics thing will handle when the ball handler bumps with a defender and another and then another in one sequence.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

Only thing im afraid of is a generic game....great.....full control, skill based gameplay ...but I still want to play a NBA Basketball video game...as long as that isnt sacrificed im good..

[BDM313]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

I think this is great and a major step in the right direction the total control aspect has me sold and the with the physics engine it only gets better but only time will tell and I cant wait to see what Elite has in store.....great time for both basketball franchises

[ILLSmak]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

I know some guys love it but others hate it or at least apprehensive to it. So I wanted to create this thread because I wanted to see exactly how everybody feels about it.

I feel like basketball games over the years have definitely gotten more complex and allowed users to do more things on the court. But the skills needed to complete actions on the court hasnt always been up to snuff imo. Things like shooting, dribbling, playing defense, and among other things are in the game but it all seems too simple. Irl stepping on to a basketball court is easy but the actual skill you need in order to be effective on both ends is high.

Playing defense isnt just sliding your feet its also understanding angles and spacing too. Shooting isnt just putting the ball in the basket you have to account for distance, arc, defenders, etc. It just shocks me sometimes how small the learning curve is for basketball games. Today I was playing with my little nephews in Live 10 and it was crazy how easy it was pick up and play the games.

They were playing the game and actually scoring on me by just mindlessly shooting and dribbling. They played with almost no regard for the defense. I ended up beating them in the end because Live 10 does require some skill to be effective but still it just didn't seem like enough. In every other game they asked me okay what are the controls but as soon as they fired up Live they jumped right in.

And there's something wrong with that to me because these games are simulations of basketball not some arcade games. So I feel like dribbling, shooting, playing d, etc need to definitely have more skill behind it.

And I feel this way not just because its my own personal opinion but also because irl you do need to be skilled to do those things too. So why aren't these games demanding more out of their players too you know? I mean adding animations or new AI is great but in the end if the game doesn't require much skill to play, those things won't show up as much imo.

When I get a dunk or hit a game winner I want to feel like I earned it because I was able to skillfully cause it to happen. Nothing hurts more when you know someone scored on you or defended you well without any skill involved. So I'm loving the fact that EA is trying to bring skill into the equation with Elite, because my feeling is this will bring us an even better simulation of playing bball.

NBA Live 10 is simple to pick up, but if not for the one game breaking issue... which is three point garbage, it would be the deepest 5 on 5 game.

That's what I want to see... I want them to continue to build on that. I play against people online on Live a lot (just came out of retirement), and out of everyone who plays the game I'd say less than 1% actually understand all of the ins and outs of it.

Boxing out, bumping cutters, finishing inside, playing defense, and creating passing lanes all play a very important role in NBA Live 10. The reason I am excited to see what they do with 11 and shooting is that was the one aspect that was lagging behind in terms of depth. You wiggle around a bit, run to the corner, launch a three... even being a great defender you can't stop it all of the time, and if the person is smart enough to understand that they don't HAVE to shoot the three... that they can move in and get a lay up (using a step through animation to always get the foul call or finish) or dunk (by using a spin move or crossing over a few times) or just fake like they would do that and run around the whole 'circle' again... it's nearly impossible to stop. Luckily, NBA Live isn't exactly full of geniuses.

I'd like to see pressure start to affect people's shooting just as it affects the other aspects of their game. Over the course of it, you can see the tightening up of people's nerves... even on free throws, but those money 3 balls are always wet.

-Smak

[carnalnirvana]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

I LOVED 09 and 10 but i am taking elite with a grain of salt.... i'll be shocked if i like it past 2 days....

personally, skill gameplay is 10 steps backwards IMO. if 2 users can get different results from the same player in terms of shooting %. its the beginning of the end.

last year the dna % upset alot of people with the 3's but this year it will be worse, from what i gather if i learn the sweet spot i could use D rose and go 7-10 from 3 and thats bad....

so now the rating of the player only mattersin determining the margin of error in their effectiveness....

its like the FT in live 10 i got a buddy who can go 10-10 with shaq from the line, like clockwork he hits the 1 green bar shaq has... WOW

stick skills should not matter in a basketball game. if this was street fighter4 then yes stick skills should determine the outcome.

IQ, positioning, and ability is this going to still matter?.

[bls]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

In sports games it isn't always about just stick skills, it's about strategy. Sure shooting mechanics and dribbling and all that stuff is good. But when you talk about skills with sports its more of an IQ thing then stick skills.

Understanding your substitution patterns. Understanding your best defender on your team. Knowing your teams strengths and weaknesses. Does your team have good rotation defense? Shading a ball carrier into your best shot blocker or shading him to the baseline for help. Understanding the proper plays to call in certain situations. Playing a dominant center such as Shaq in his prime on defense.......do I front the post or play behind. Do I double team or let my defender go one on one.

This is the essence of true skills to me when it comes to basketball. Not just how I shoot with the sticks but you gotta have some type of basketball knowledge as well and if this isn't implemented then everything else is a lost cause.

For the last couple of years EA hasn't been able to the the defensive assignments to work right. So what good is everything else if I can't assign my best defender to check say a Kobe (especially if they put him at a different position). If a user puts Kobe at the PG spot and I'm playing with the Hornets. I shoudn't have to deal with Paul guarding him, nor should I have to switch the PG /SG positions just to get the proper matchups. Now my SG is running the point. This is all basketball strategy. I may want to lag off a player that doesn't have a great jump shot, but if the defensive pressure settings don't work properly what good is everything else???????????????????

I'm all for stick skills but to me the best sports video game is the one with the true fundamentals of the sports and the strategy to back it. One of the reasons I love nfl 2k5/all pro football is because you can shade either inside or outside with the DB's or bump or play off the WR, you can redesign your whole defensive play scheme out their on the field if you like, this adds strategy, the game becomes a chess match. The other football game doesn't allow for this which just makes it a basic game.

So IMO stick skills is good and all, but true basketball fundamentals and strategy along with the proper rules (Ex: clear path to the basket foul) needs to be implemented in order to make this game truly about a game of skills.

[Live Boii]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

In sports games it isn't always about just stick skills, it's about strategy. Sure shooting mechanics and dribbling and all that stuff is good. But when you talk about skills with sports its more of an IQ thing then stick skills.

Understanding your substitution patterns. Understanding your best defender on your team. Knowing your teams strengths and weaknesses. Does your team have good rotation defense? Shading a ball carrier into your best shot blocker or shading him to the baseline for help. Understanding the proper plays to call in certain situations. Playing a dominant center such as Shaq in his prime on defense.......do I front the post or play behind. Do I double team or let my defender go one on one.

This is the essence of true skills to me when it comes to basketball. Not just how I shoot with the sticks but you gotta have some type of basketball knowledge as well and if this isn't implemented then everything else is a lost cause.

For the last couple of years EA hasn't been able to the the defensive assignments to work right. So what good is everything else if I can't assign my best defender to check say a Kobe (especially if they put him at a different position). If a user puts Kobe at the PG spot and I'm playing with the Hornets. I shoudn't have to deal with Paul guarding him, nor should I have to switch the PG /SG positions just to get the proper matchups. Now my SG is running the point. This is all basketball strategy. I may want to lag off a player that doesn't have a great jump shot, but if the defensive pressure settings don't work properly what good is everything else???????????????????

I'm all for stick skills but to me the best sports video game is the one with the true fundamentals of the sports and the strategy to back it. One of the reasons I love nfl 2k5/all pro football is because you can shade either inside or outside with the DB's or bump or play off the WR, you can redesign your whole defensive play scheme out their on the field if you like, this adds strategy, the game becomes a chess match. The other football game doesn't allow for this which just makes it a basic game.

So IMO stick skills is good and all, but true basketball fundamentals and strategy along with the proper rules (Ex: clear path to the basket foul) needs to be implemented in order to make this game truly about a game of skills.

clear path fouls were implemented at the community's request.

also the fact that basketball knowledge is needed doesn't help. because that has always been the case with these games. no with the implementation of skilled based gameplay it gives somebody who puts in time with the game a clear advantage than somebody who doesn't.

this adds depth and replay value to the game.

[kolanji]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

skill based games r the future of what sports games should focus on.so far imo the only sports game to have it is fight night round 4.(every other sports seem to have way too many canned animations and sucked in 1 on 1 cpu determination)
fortunate for EA they have made the first move towards a great competitive tool to encourage a filter for more user skill determination of how a game is played and the outcome.

i give props where props is due and fight night deserve it, they have the best skilled base sports game to date the physics and skilled base gameplay is a great filter to separate the better player

[ILLSmak]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

I LOVED 09 and 10 but i am taking elite with a grain of salt.... i'll be shocked if i like it past 2 days....

personally, skill gameplay is 10 steps backwards IMO. if 2 users can get different results from the same player in terms of shooting %. its the beginning of the end.

last year the dna % upset alot of people with the 3's but this year it will be worse, from what i gather if i learn the sweet spot i could use D rose and go 7-10 from 3 and thats bad....

so now the rating of the player only mattersin determining the margin of error in their effectiveness....

its like the FT in live 10 i got a buddy who can go 10-10 with shaq from the line, like clockwork he hits the 1 green bar shaq has... WOW

stick skills should not matter in a basketball game. if this was street fighter4 then yes stick skills should determine the outcome.

IQ, positioning, and ability is this going to still matter?.

Seen it w/ Rose already... in 09 and 10. Same w/ Shaq free throws. I once had a kid in a league in nba 2k7 call me unsim because I made free throws with Shaq. haha.

Of course stick skill should matter. There are two levels of gameplay in sports games. There is the offline and the online, and online if stick skills don't matter then what's the point?

Basically, there are so many implementations that can keep the game 'Sim' even with someone who can drain a shot from anywhere. Being open, having to set your feet, which hand you are dribbling with... all of that should affect your shot, too. LeBron can probably hit a good portion of 40-50 footers in real life, and I bet a lot of NBA players can. Remember how Reggie would always shoot a turn around half court 3 before every game? But the reason they don't do that in games is because it's not efficient. If someone is skilled enough to make 40% of their threes from half court in Live, they are still going to lose out to someone who knows how to get open shots and hits them at a very high clip.

The skill based aspects... the ones that are 'unrealistic' will be more for clowning after the game is already won, trust me. The important part is to get rid of money shots while keeping dunking at a minimum so that you have to earn your points. That will make the game much more realistic.

Lastly, stick skills matter in 10, too. Anyone with real stick skills can get to the rim and dunk/get fouled nearly every time... as I already stated. And get to the corner and launch a three. I'd personally rather see someone pulling up from 40 feet and draining one than see someone running around in circles and ending up in the corner for a shot that arcs over the backboard and drops in.

-Smak

[MrMars]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

First of all, let me start by saying that I feel that I am in the majority of the players out there that are older, with a family, and a full-time job, who don't have the time to play as much as we would like; However, this skill based gameplay issue is going to seriously affect the players like myself, who don't have the time nor the inclination it would take to become extremely proficient at this game. (ie. can't develop the stick skills at the rate that those that can commit 12-14 hours a day playing can.)

That being said, it is still a video game and stick skills should play a role. A previous poster mentioned Fight Night Round 4 as the benchmark for distinguishing those players with stick skills and those without. While this may be true, it doesn't mean that it does it the way it's supposed to. I have this game as well and from my experience the stick skills that the poster was referring to do not allow for the game to played in the spirit of the sport it's representing. This is the Elite forum so I'm not going to rattle off all the cheats and exploits used by the FN4 community to get wins, what I will say is that skill based gameplay MUST work within the spirit of the game.

In other words, stick skills should not allow you to accomplish game objectives through methods that are fundamentally wrong within the nature of the sport, on any kind of consistent basis.

If this can be achieved by the development team, then we as the gaming community can live with it when we encounter someone who has better stick skills than we do, and can chalk it up as "They were better than me, and that's why I lost."

At this point, without a demo, I don't know if this will be the case. We'll have to just wait and see.

MrMars