Ask the devs : AI/Ratings

[Playmakers]

Re: Ask the devs : AI/Ratings

I just d/l'ed the demo - the slider set is the same as the retail game, but if you have a look at the player stats, screen, under DNA Ratings, those are the ratings available for edit, and imo the place where guys who are good with tweaks can change how the game plays quite a bit.

If there's enough people making a case for a particular adjustment I can discuss with the database guy and see if I can't get some tuning done for a ratings drop.

I'd like to see the CPU get out and run stepsix....

i've been meaning to ask you this question what the heck has happend to the transistion game?

It seems like no one attacks the basket in transition....the same problem that occured in Live 10. I've seen frequently now when the CPU gets a rebound they don't look to run and if they do look like they are going to run several times their wing players just look totally lost out in space.

Instead of filling a lane and looking to get a layup or dunk they are kinda jogging up the floor as if there isn't a fastbreak oppurtunity presented to them.....I hope that kinda makes sense of what i'm trying to say

Is there anyway to open up the transition game this year

[BiggD]

Re: Ask the devs : AI/Ratings

I just d/l'ed the demo - the slider set is the same as the retail game, but if you have a look at the player stats, screen, under DNA Ratings, those are the ratings available for edit, and imo the place where guys who are good with tweaks can change how the game plays quite a bit.

If there's enough people making a case for a particular adjustment I can discuss with the database guy and see if I can't get some tuning done for a ratings drop.

I actually stumbled across these DNA ratings about an hour ago.. i'm gonna have to spend so much time adjusting everyones speed/quickness and vertical. I'm assuming we can go whole team edits to the ratings again this year????

[carnalnirvana]

Re: Ask the devs : AI/Ratings

the transition game is being killed by the ratings.

after i added some street ball logic to 09 and 10 it tried to run the break.....

street ball logic- every player wants a layup or dunk, went into the ratings and made sure every player highest shot likelyhood was inside shot.... and a guy like fisher 3pt likelyhood cant be higher than kobe inside shot........ the reason people shoot, is because a layup or dunk is being defended, if you cant get by your man you ask for a screen, if you cant dribble you try to post up, if you dont have handle and not a heavy cat you pull up.....

this is where i think live/elite gets it for the lack of a better word wrong,

fisher has a mid range likelyhood of 64 and a 3pt likelyhood of 80, kobe has a inside shot likelyhood of 76 and a mid range of 94and a 3pt likelyhood of 81.

on a run out fisher gets to his sweet spot the 3pt line first, lets say dna kicks in and it determines kobe will shoot, fisher kicks it which shot you think kobe is taking especially if a trail defender shows up... yet the pull up.

none of fisher's likelyhood should be higher than kobe's inside shot, this way on a break the game calculates that kobe likelyhood should take the priority and passes it earlier.

for my style of gameplay kobe has to be 2 times as likely to take inside and mid range shots than anyone else except maybe gasol. a priority system has to be established.

on the break fisher says to himself " my 3pt rating is higher and i might still be open by time i get there so i am not running or passing, if i am not open we will run a play"

[stepsix]

Re: Ask the devs : AI/Ratings

I'd like to see the CPU get out and run stepsix....

i've been meaning to ask you this question what the heck has happend to the transistion game?

It seems like no one attacks the basket in transition....the same problem that occured in Live 10. I've seen frequently now when the CPU gets a rebound they don't look to run and if they do look like they are going to run several times their wing players just look totally lost out in space.

Instead of filling a lane and looking to get a layup or dunk they are kinda jogging up the floor as if there isn't a fastbreak oppurtunity presented to them.....I hope that kinda makes sense of what i'm trying to say

Is there anyway to open up the transition game this year

This a great post PlayMakers - exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for. I'm working on patch issues now and I'll see if I can get the wings cutting to the hoop more for you. Are you referring to an all CPU team, or are you referring to your teammates? The logic is slightly different between the two. If there's any other specific stuff you feel wrong with the transition logic get at me asap.

I actually stumbled across these DNA ratings about an hour ago.. i'm gonna have to spend so much time adjusting everyones speed/quickness and vertical. I'm assuming we can go whole team edits to the ratings again this year????

Yep you can do team wide ratings edits - it's how I was testing out some different verticals.

the transition game is being killed by the ratings.

after i added some street ball logic to 09 and 10 it tried to run the break.....

street ball logic- every player wants a layup or dunk, went into the ratings and made sure every player highest shot likelyhood was inside shot.... and a guy like fisher 3pt likelyhood cant be higher than kobe inside shot........ the reason people shoot, is because a layup or dunk is being defended, if you cant get by your man you ask for a screen, if you cant dribble you try to post up, if you dont have handle and not a heavy cat you pull up.....

this is where i think live/elite gets it for the lack of a better word wrong,

fisher has a mid range likelyhood of 64 and a 3pt likelyhood of 80, kobe has a inside shot likelyhood of 76 and a mid range of 94and a 3pt likelyhood of 81.

on a run out fisher gets to his sweet spot the 3pt line first, lets say dna kicks in and it determines kobe will shoot, fisher kicks it which shot you think kobe is taking especially if a trail defender shows up... yet the pull up.

none of fisher's likelyhood should be higher than kobe's inside shot, this way on a break the game calculates that kobe likelyhood should take the priority and passes it earlier.

for my style of gameplay kobe has to be 2 times as likely to take inside and mid range shots than anyone else except maybe gasol. a priority system has to be established.

on the break fisher says to himself " my 3pt rating is higher and i might still be open by time i get there so i am not running or passing, if i am not open we will run a play"

Interesting points and I appreciate the detail you went into. I've got a couple ideas on how to get Kobe finishing more when it's Kobe and he's driving, I'll get back to you with my changes.

Keep this kind of feedback coming!

[fatleg3]

Re: Ask the devs : AI/Ratings

step there is a problem when it comes to late game fouling on the demo. I dont know if its cause its just a demo and it has been fixed.

I was up by 3 with the ball and when i got it it was about 38 seconds to go. If im correct a team will not foul in this situation and play d hoping to get a stop. But what the cpu does is play d until the shot clock get below 24 secs then they foul. This makes no sense. if they are going to foul they would do it right away and not let so much time run off but even then its still a one possession game and i have to put a shot up so a defense would not foul in that situation. This happens often to. Not just on one occasion

Also they do a lot of unnecessary fouling when the game is out of reach for example the cpu will foul me when im up by like 7 or 8 with 10 seconds left

[Playmakers]

Re: Ask the devs : AI/Ratings

what are the chances of having a game speed slider added to the final product stepsix?

[BiggD]

Re: Ask the devs : AI/Ratings

what are the chances of having a game speed slider added to the final product stepsix?

I would love to know this too, although Yaw(blackflash83) said on his twitter account that there are more sliders in the retail version of the game...hmmmm

[poseidon44]

Re: Ask the devs : AI/Ratings

stepsix....speaking of the PATCH that you're working on, can you please fix the issue of the user-controlled ball-handler going into back-up/post-up mode for no apparent reason.

In the demo impressions thread, myself and a few others have noticed that sometimes the ball-hander turns his back to the basket for no reason whatsoever....including times when he is dribbling towards the basket (clear path w/ no defender in sight) and instead of attacking the rim, the player just goes into a low-post position.

I implore you to fix this because I'm seeing it happen very often.

Thanks (and I love the demo BTW).

[stepsix]

Re: Ask the devs : AI/Ratings

step there is a problem when it comes to late game fouling on the demo. I dont know if its cause its just a demo and it has been fixed.

I was up by 3 with the ball and when i got it it was about 38 seconds to go. If im correct a team will not foul in this situation and play d hoping to get a stop. But what the cpu does is play d until the shot clock get below 24 secs then they foul. This makes no sense. if they are going to foul they would do it right away and not let so much time run off but even then its still a one possession game and i have to put a shot up so a defense would not foul in that situation. This happens often to. Not just on one occasion

Also they do a lot of unnecessary fouling when the game is out of reach for example the cpu will foul me when im up by like 7 or 8 with 10 seconds left

Great post and I'll specifically look at this.

what are the chances of having a game speed slider added to the final product stepsix?

Sorry man I don't think this is something I can patch in...reason being patches are severly restricted in size by Microsoft, and this would require a front end data change which would eat into our patch budget quite a bit. You can still edit a number of player attributes around speed, but there's no single overall slider unfortunately. I'll make a case for it for next year for sure.

stepsix....speaking of the PATCH that you're working on, can you please fix the issue of the user-controlled ball-handler going into back-up/post-up mode for no apparent reason.

In the demo impressions thread, myself and a few others have noticed that sometimes the ball-hander turns his back to the basket for no reason whatsoever....including times when he is dribbling towards the basket (clear path w/ no defender in sight) and instead of attacking the rim, the player just goes into a low-post position.

I implore you to fix this because I'm seeing it happen very often.

Thanks (and I love the demo BTW).

Thanks for the support. So you're saying that you as a user are being forced into backdown? Is this in the post? There's a half backdown state which is the default guarded state when pressed up on, and there's the full backdown when you press the left bumper (or L1). Which of these two is it? I fixed an issue for the patch where the CPU will be backing you down and then you move your defender away and they stay backing down.

[poseidon44]

Re: Ask the devs : AI/Ratings

Thanks for the support. So you're saying that you as a user are being forced into backdown? Is this in the post? There's a half backdown state which is the default guarded state when pressed up on, and there's the full backdown when you press the left bumper (or L1). Which of these two is it? I fixed an issue for the patch where the CPU will be backing you down and then you move your defender away and they stay backing down.

Hi. Thanks for your reply. Yes the user-controlled player just goes into "backdown" mode (I've seen it happen on the perimeter and also near the paint as well) where NO contact is initiated by the defender and where the L1 button is NOT pressed.

For example, if I'm using Kobe and I pull off a crossover move to shake his primary defender (Ray Allen) and I have a CLEAR PATH towards to basket.....Kobe wil attack the rim and then all of a sudden he's go into 'backdown' state (w/o pressing L1 on the controller and where no defender is around him) instead of finishing at the rim.

Hope this helps.

[RayDog253]

Re: Ask the devs : AI/Ratings

Hi. Thanks for your reply. Yes the user-controlled player just goes into "backdown" mode (I've seen it happen on the perimeter and also near the paint as well) where NO contact is initiated by the defender and where the L1 button is NOT pressed.

For example, if I'm using Kobe and I pull off a crossover move to shake his primary defender (Ray Allen) and I have a CLEAR PATH towards to basket.....Kobe wil attack the rim and then all of a sudden he's go into 'backdown' state (w/o pressing L1 on the controller and where no defender is around him) instead of finishing at the rim.

Hope this helps.

Is this with the old controls or the Elite one's?

[poseidon44]

Re: Ask the devs : AI/Ratings

Is this with the old controls or the Elite one's?

Elite (default).

[RayDog253]

Re: Ask the devs : AI/Ratings

Elite (default).

Okay. I was just wondering if with the old controls still had the auto post up.

[gmac0322]

Re: Ask the devs : AI/Ratings

[quote=stepsix;2041659147]Great post and I'll specifically look at this.



I was wondering if the patch was going to be a release day patch?

[Jano]

Re: Ask the devs : AI/Ratings

Two questions about the final build:

Have the vertical rating's been change at all? They are just terrible in the demo, I'm getting blocked on fadeaways and leaners by defenders. The players are able to block my shot as its already in the air and its really startin to bug me.

I know the gathers probably won't be brought back but I hope this addressed because I'm getting blocked in some terrible ways. The worst one I've experienced is I shot a fadeaway w/ Pierce and Artest waited until I released the ball and then blocked it in mid flight! From a stand still no less..

My next question is on help defense, has the help D for the user improved at all from the demo. Right now if I don't switch over to the defender my self it will almost always lead to an open mid range shot or layup/dunk.

This is frustrating because there are many times where I can't respond to the drive myself effectively because of the speedy animations. So some help by my CPU teammates would be appreciated lol!