NBA Elite 11 Blog: Real Physics

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  • rEAnimator
    NBA Elite Developer
    • Jun 2010
    • 666

    #121
    Re: NBA Elite 11 Blog: Real Physics

    Originally posted by Muzyk23
    hey reanimator..was it really necessary to invent new controls system? I mean Live 10 had a lot of 'suck in' moments but I believe control was its brightest spot..Now I see I was wrong thinking that what new EA Sports basketball title needed were things like more animations and better quality of them, signature stuff all over the place, getting rid of or fixing some nuances like 'suck in' effect, poor blocking, rebounding, stealing of the ball, poor defensive system, giving wieght to the players.

    I'm absolutely not judging the end product or your vision but my point is why focusing on control when other things were really broken.
    The only thing you mentioned that we didn't put a lot of effort into was "signature stuff all over the place", but like I said, we haven't taken away from what Live '10 had and we have added more player differentiation. It just wasn't the focus.

    I think I've gone into enough detail in this thread and others for you to see how we're addressing the " 'suck in' effect, poor blocking, rebounding, stealing of the ball, poor defensive system, giving wieght to the players".

    But to your first question: "was it really necessary to invent new controls system?"

    I believe this was absolutely critical to making Elite a really great sports game. Shooting in basketball games in the past have been a dice roll where the probability of success is influenced by ratings and position on the court.

    In Elite, shooting will be skill based and the difficulty of the shot will be influenced by ratings and position on the court.

    In may sound like a subtle difference, but the difference is actually quite significant and changes the entire feeling of playing the game.

    Imagine yourself playing a game where you're down by 2 points with 10 seconds left on the clock. You bring the ball up the court and get the ball to your best 3 point shooter who is tightly guarded.

    In games that don't have skill based shooting, this is where your involvement ends. You've done all you can do, you take the shot and you know you have maybe a 5% chance of scoring (or whatever number the game calculates for you). You hope for the best, and wait to see if the ball will go in or not.

    In Elite 11, if you get the ball to the same guy you'll get a shot that will be pretty difficult. But you know with certainty that it is possible to hit the shot. It's on you to execute well enough to score the game winning point.

    In the first example, if you miss you chalk it up to bad luck and hope that maybe next time you take that shot it will go in.

    In Elite 11, if you miss that shot you know it was your fault and your fault alone. You know that if you practice, or if you're more composed next time you'll be able to make the shot.

    In the first example, if you hit the shot, you know you got lucky.

    In Elite 11, if you hit the shot you know you earned it, and that feeling of accomplishment is quite real. It's the closest thing you'll get to playing the real sport through a video game.

    That's why we needed to change the controls. We wanted the outcome of your actions to be based on you, and the difficulty of executing those actions to be based on real life basketball.

    No more random used to decide the outcome of user actions. Period.

    In order to accomplish this we needed to rework the shot controls completely, and I'm really happy with what we came up with.

    Everything else fell into place around that.

    Hopefully that explains our choices.

    Comment

    • dvir10
      Rookie
      • Jul 2009
      • 496

      #122
      Re: NBA Elite 11 Blog: Real Physics

      Originally posted by rEAnimator
      Rest assured that everyone won't act and play the same. Far from it. We have some really amazing AI tech that hasn't been announced yet that I think you guys will really like that was put in specifically for AI behaviors.

      All I'm saying is we did not focus on individualizing through animations.

      You still have all the sig anims from last year and effort put in on individualizing behaviors of AI players.

      Our focus on the animation side was control and physics.

      But there are many aspects of a players abilities and behaviors that differentiate him in Elite.
      so there aren't any new sig anims??
      does this mean that kobe sig shot is the same??? because lest year, his shot wasn't even close.

      Comment

      • NoTiCe_O
        Pro
        • May 2009
        • 969

        #123
        Re: NBA Elite 11 Blog: Real Physics

        Good Explanation rEAnimator, I've realized this for a while, the fact that skill makes the difference jut puts this game in its own area, alot of people think you guys shooting control is like 2k's when really the only similar thing is that you use the stick.

        I been sayin this and i continue, I hope that this game really differentiates the good from the bad, and when you play online you can tell the skill difference between the higher ranked players and the lower ones. It seems like exploits won't control who wins in this game, an with physics you cant learn the animation, you actually have to learn the game.
        Twitter - @OtistheOriginal

        Comment

        • Muzyk23
          MVP
          • Feb 2003
          • 4192

          #124
          Re: NBA Elite 11 Blog: Real Physics

          Thanks for answering and explaining.
          NBA

          Comment

          • Piccaso
            Rookie
            • Jun 2010
            • 22

            #125
            Re: NBA Elite 11 Blog: Real Physics

            It seems like exploits won't control who wins in this game, an with physics you cant learn the animation, you actually have to learn the game.[/quote]

            Comment

            • NoTiCe_O
              Pro
              • May 2009
              • 969

              #126
              Re: NBA Elite 11 Blog: Real Physics

              Yea, I cant wait to try it .. It a breath of fresh air for basketball gaming, I'm a 95% online player and anything that brings more competition while making it balanced and skill based at the same time i good with me ..
              Twitter - @OtistheOriginal

              Comment

              • Jonesy
                All Star
                • Feb 2003
                • 5382

                #127
                Re: NBA Elite 11 Blog: Real Physics

                Pretty interesting blog / read. I think it has the 'potential' to be fantastic and is the way going forward in the long run ie games being physics based as opposed to animation driven.

                It's just the fact that it's going to be very bloody difficult to get right is my main concern. I sure hope the EA devs are putting some serious Q and A sessions into this game with real unbiased gamers because it has the potential to be superb and just as equally has the potential to be a bug filled, herky jerky mess. I really can't wait to try it out for myself once the demo drops and see it for myself.

                Comment

                • navi24
                  Banned
                  • Jul 2010
                  • 23

                  #128
                  Re: NBA Elite 11 Blog: Real Physics

                  i absolutely agree and welcome the idea of redoing the controls, because it asked for it, in past games if u press the steal button the A.I chooses which hand to use. with the new controls it seperates the upper and lower body, u can choose which hand to steal with and lets u adjust in mid air wether is switching hands to attack the rim or to lean towards the ball for rebounds or shot blocks. the fact that there is no turbo button is genius because it gives u more freedom and options attacking on offense. just having the touch sensative turbo on the stick alone can make this game better than the competition, being able to change speeds at will is incredible(think of the possibilities). by the way, live 10 had alot of signature moves, the sig shots were down to the T except for kobe's (i have to admit)i hope the devs fix his shot. live 10 had sig shots,sig fadeaways, sig moves like step backs (d.will is different from billups ect). sig lay ups and some sig dunks. it doesnt bother me for this year if is not 100% signature cause is going to be a great game but next year it cant be overlooked. i know next year EA's signature moves are going to be more flashy than the paparazzis in hollywood
                  Last edited by navi24; 08-03-2010, 05:17 AM.

                  Comment

                  • I Got Hoes
                    Banned
                    • Aug 2010
                    • 2

                    #129
                    Re: NBA Elite 11 Blog: Real Physics

                    Originally posted by navi24
                    i absolutely agree and welcome the idea of redoing the controls, because it asked for it, in past games if u press the steal button the A.I chooses which hand to use. with the new controls it seperates the upper and lower body, u can choose which hand to steal with and lets u adjust in mid air wether is switching hands to attack the rim or to lean towards the ball for rebounds or shot blocks. the fact that there is no turbo button is genius because it gives u more freedom and options attacking on offense. just having the touch sensative turbo on the stick alone can make this game better than the competition, being able to change speeds at will is incredible. by the way live 10 had alot of signature moves, the sig shots were down to the T except for kobe's (i have to admit)i hope the devs fix his shot. live 10 had sig shots,sig fadeaways, sig moves like step backs d.will is different from billups ect. sig lay ups and some sig dunks. it doesnt bother me for this year if is not 100% signature cause is going to be a great game but next year it cant be overlooked. i know next year EA's signature moves are going to be more flashy than the paparazzis in hollywood.
                    No offense, but you sound like a 100% blind homer man, I mean, I literally cringed at your post, lol, its cool though, but lets wait until the games are released before we go saying what will put something over the top, you know darn well that all of Elites mentioned additions will still not bring them close to the other game. Yall need to be a lil more honest, I hope Elite does well and continues, but it is very possible that the sells difference can be so large it can kill the Live franchise.


                    I may be one of the only people who realize this, but no gamers in any genre looks forward to a videogames control for their purchase, the physics system may turn out to be nice, but them actually using control as a selling point shows me that either they simply cant compete with the competition looks/animation wise, or they are desperate for anything to make the game look good on paper (no offense to anyone). Thats like having a Bron vs Nash arguement, and the Nash supporter using FT% to compete in the arguement, its irrelevent as long as Bron is a solid FT shooter.


                    IDK man, the control in the competition was never horrible and Lives was nice last year (matter of fact EA bloggers consistantly used this as a comparison tool), but Lives animations have been horrible for a long time now while the competition's keeps getting better and better every year, why the hell is Lives main selling point something that was already good last year, it seems like desperation, I hope im wrong, but I think that EA will once again regret making another major change.

                    Remember when Synergy was suppose to be this revolutionary feature and truth be told it did absolutley nothing and was passed up by the competition easily the next year with their version, Synergy actually hurt last years game in a few ways. I want to see Live/Elite do well so I can keep buying 2 games, but the history tells me that this will be another non effective gimmick just to sell more copies, EA has become so lost as far as the basketball series goes that they have NEVER actually added something that the franchise needed, these major features/changes will not help their product on the court or on the shelves, they need to wake up.

                    Comment

                    • NoTiCe_O
                      Pro
                      • May 2009
                      • 969

                      #130
                      Re: NBA Elite 11 Blog: Real Physics

                      They have a new animation system, and I don't think they're just trying to sell us controls i mean theres still month before more info is released. And they are stressing the control because it changes the game dramatically, its not like there just switching the shoot button from square to circle or something, they are actually changing the way you play the entire game.

                      The control is gonna be better than past games but its not just about that, it gives the game a natural feel and you actually can think basketball rather than thinking videogames. Most of the motions you use on the controller are similar to motions a player would do in real life.

                      And EA is smarter than that when it comes to sales, I think that's why they're bundling NBA Jam with Elite 11, not to mention Jam has online multiplayer for some replay Value
                      Last edited by NoTiCe_O; 08-03-2010, 04:29 AM.
                      Twitter - @OtistheOriginal

                      Comment

                      • navi24
                        Banned
                        • Jul 2010
                        • 23

                        #131
                        Re: NBA Elite 11 Blog: Real Physics

                        Originally posted by I Got Hoes

                        the physics system may turn out to be nice, but them actually using control as a selling point shows me that either they simply cant compete with the competition looks/animation wise, or they are desperate for anything to make the game look good on paper

                        lol that is a contradictory statement u made, be real for a minute, u talking about being desperate, it cant get more desperate than to put jordan on the cover lol, because the jordan challenge and getting rid of 2 man animation is the only thing that they have to offer because their player models still doesnt look like their real life counterpart,nba elite 11 has way more stuff to offer us than the other game. i bet u that mr.w ran back to to the other company talking about all the good stuff we have this year and they can loose alot of fans unless they put jordan on the cover. because really, thats the only thing thats saving them this year cause if it werent for that alot of ppl would of switch this year just like last year. so go read all the articles EA has put out so u can grasp all the drastic changes that went on before saying stuff like that because if u think that controls and physics is the only thing they are bringing to the table then u might be blind.(no offense)
                        Last edited by navi24; 08-03-2010, 11:43 AM.

                        Comment

                        • I Got Hoes
                          Banned
                          • Aug 2010
                          • 2

                          #132
                          Re: NBA Elite 11 Blog: Real Physics

                          Originally posted by navi24
                          lol that is a contradictory statement u made, be real for a minute, u talking about being desperate, it cant get more desperate than to put jordan on the cover lol, because the jordan challenge and getting rid of 2 man animation is the only thing that they have to offer because their player models still look like crap,nba elite 11 has way more stuff to offer us than the other game. i bet u that m.wang ran back to to the other company running his lips about all the good stuff we have this year and they can loose alot of fans unless they put jordan on the cover. because really, thats the only thing thats saving them this year cause if it werent for that alot of ppl would of switch this year just like last year. so go read all the articles EA has put out so u can grasp all the drastic changes that went on before running ur mouth because if u think that controls and physics is the only thing they are bringing to the table then u really are d***,deaf and blind.(no offense)
                          Dude, you have absolutley no idea what you are talking about, I mean not at all, even a lil bit, next time why dont you try and do some research 1st fella, the things you said in that post was so far from the truth it made me laugh, and im a Live fan. Lol at people switching last year, do you know that Lives sales has been declining for years man, if Elite does not come through it may be the end for EA basketball for good man, these are facts, read up on a few things fam.



                          Oh, and SMH at you saying using Jordan is a desperation move, open your eyes fella cause you are looking like a blinded homer right now, you dont even realize just how D riderish your post sounded, im laughing over here cause you were actually serious, lol (no offense bruh).

                          Comment

                          • Muzyk23
                            MVP
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 4192

                            #133
                            Re: NBA Elite 11 Blog: Real Physics

                            Originally posted by navi24
                            lol that is a contradictory statement u made, be real for a minute, u talking about being desperate, it cant get more desperate than to put jordan on the cover lol, because the jordan challenge and getting rid of 2 man animation is the only thing that they have to offer because their player models still look like crap,nba elite 11 has way more stuff to offer us than the other game. i bet u that m.wang ran back to to the other company running his lips about all the good stuff we have this year and they can loose alot of fans unless they put jordan on the cover. because really, thats the only thing thats saving them this year cause if it werent for that alot of ppl would of switch this year just like last year. so go read all the articles EA has put out so u can grasp all the drastic changes that went on before running ur mouth because if u think that controls and physics is the only thing they are bringing to the table then u really are d***,deaf and blind.(no offense)
                            posts like this one will get you banned quickly (being a rookie)..besides, they are childish and 'no offense' doesn't help
                            NBA

                            Comment

                            • Muzyk23
                              MVP
                              • Feb 2003
                              • 4192

                              #134
                              Re: NBA Elite 11 Blog: Real Physics

                              Originally posted by NoTiCe_O
                              They have a new animation system, and I don't think they're just trying to sell us controls i mean theres still month before more info is released. And they are stressing the control because it changes the game dramatically, its not like there just switching the shoot button from square to circle or something, they are actually changing the way you play the entire game.

                              The control is gonna be better than past games but its not just about that, it gives the game a natural feel and you actually can think basketball rather than thinking videogames. Most of the motions you use on the controller are similar to motions a player would do in real life.

                              And EA is smarter than that when it comes to sales, I think that's why they're bundling NBA Jam with Elite 11, not to mention Jam has online multiplayer for some replay Value
                              come on man you sound like you have already played the game
                              NBA

                              Comment

                              • bigeastbumrush
                                My Momma's Son
                                • Feb 2003
                                • 19245

                                #135
                                Re: NBA Elite 11 Blog: Real Physics

                                Originally posted by flyboy703
                                yes people say they want more sig playing styles, but its like you arent getting the big picture you can make the players play as sig as you want them to because you control them... They have already stated the sig shots that where there last year will still be in the game along with a few add-ons... If the gameplay is good people will barely even notice some of the sig play is not there. if you can still post some up with kobe fake one way and then fade back the other with smooth transition and control you will love the game
                                The bolded is just not true.

                                I'm all for control and I think skill-based shooting is a huge step in the right direction. Yes, I think the user's skill should play a big part in the player's success/failure.

                                But don't say that generic-based dribbling, shooting, blocking mechanics is sufficient enough for a next-gen game because it's not.

                                Comment

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