NBA Elite 11 Videos: 3 Quick Clips

[ParisB]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos: 3 Quick Clips

I'm glad to see the 2player animations gone, but the replacement still needs some work. You guys might have a physics engine, but you need a kinesiology engine or something - rasheed wallace jumped straight up, then some how levitated backwards before showing any signs of impact. Plus he didn't show any localized impact (i.e. if someone gets hit in the sterum, their chest compresses, their shoulders go forward, and the upper body should be out of line with the lower limbs) - he just levatated backwards, and stumbled back once he got to the floor.

Edit: I'm sorry but after watching it a few more times, it does have localized impact, but it's after he levates backwards lol.

I think if we watch all our favorite games in slow motion and zoomed in with a critical eye, we would be miserable unhappy people, lol.

Seriously, there's un precedented control, real time physics, and the guy got dunked on without a canned animation sequence. We should be happy because that hasn't happened in any video game bball game before. Let's not start complaining about the bench's reaction or how Sheed's wrist muscles or shoelaces reacted to the impact.

I think Artest doing a Lebron dunk is the only thing worth complaining from that, but I can live with it for now if the focus is on controls, physics, and core gameplay.

[NoTiCe_O]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos: 3 Quick Clips

I think if we watch all our favorite games in slow motion and zoomed in with a critical eye, we would be miserable unhappy people, lol.

Seriously, there's un precedented control, real time physics, and the guy got dunked on without a canned animation sequence. We should be happy because that hasn't happened in any video game bball game before. Let's not start complaining about the bench's reaction or how Sheed's wrist muscles or shoelaces reacted to the impact.

I think Artest doing a Lebron dunk is the only thing worth complaining from that, but I can live with it for now if the focus is on controls, physics, and core gameplay.

The Shoelaces part was Hilarious. But yea I think people are overreacting rEAnimatior already said he did some tuning to sequences like that , and that we'll get a glimpse on Monday.

[sportzbro]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos: 3 Quick Clips

Seriously can't wait for this game. Those clips are great.

[Forever_Young83]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos: 3 Quick Clips

The Artest dunk looked like a real time animation to me. I feel like if it were pre-determined, Wallace's fall would have looked a lot smoother and more tied in to Artest's body. As it looked, a player went flying to the rack high above the rim and a defender came over and tried to intercept the play a little late, thus initiating the contact animation. I'm not very positive, but wouldn't a pre-rendered collision have to be determined before the Artest dunk began? I'll have to give it another look.

Edit: Also, am I the only one who got 2 really freaky advertisements before each vid (one for killer piranhas and one for a possessed little girl)? I'd be okay with like, a Starburst ad. . .or one for kittens.

By pre-determined i mean that animation will probably always happen in that situation. I would like to see them actually test this physics in clips to see mutiple outcomes doing a dunk like that.

[ryan36]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos: 3 Quick Clips

I am not buying into the hype. If these devs want to show clips dont the show flawed ones. How can the Artest-Wallace clip be a demonstration of real physics when Artest's dunk animation was not affected? The only animation that changed was Wallace as he animated around the actual play. Artest kept plowing forward as if he was never touched. Silly dev doesnt realize that is not true physics and they should go back tot he lab and work on thier collision engine. Artest dunk animation should have adjusted when contacted, and Wallace should not have floated backwards when contacted in the air. There should have been an in air collision, and the player with the most momentum depending on weight on speed of movement should win. Allowing Artest to continue to amimate forward with his dunk is the same garbage that 2K basketball patched last year. Plus, why did the blocked layup look so cheap and scripted. Any ball player knows that you are taught to use the backboard in the instance. It appears he just through it up to the rim to get blocked. Not realistic at all devs.

Hey guys...I'm going to say this once. Most of the things in the post strike me as legitimate feedback, as far one person's opinion goes. I've bolded 3 things:
1) If all they showed were perfect clips, then the "liar, spin dr., hype machine" posts show up. They can't win.
2) Don't call the devs silly. Find a way to make this point without calling names.
3)If you take "devs" out , this opinion is fine.

No warnings this time...this will be the only time. Again, constructive criticism is fine...calling out the devs is not. I hope you guys see what I'm getting at. Carry on ...

[joel0078]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos: 3 Quick Clips

[quote=ParisB;2041438224] "Seriously, there's un precedented control"........

I don't mean to nitpick you, but let's at least wait until we play the demo before we firmly believe the control scheme is "unprecedented". It's one thing for the EA team to say it's "unprecedented" in these stages, it's a completely different thing for the consumer to have played and agree that this new control scheme is "cutting edge" and works as well as the EA team says it will.

[blues rocker]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos: 3 Quick Clips

The 3rd video with the collision dunk is not right. i'm not fooled by EA's claims. The defender gets knocked out of the way, but the dunker is not affcted by the collision. if a defender slams into the dunker in mid air like that, the dunker's momentum should stop and he should lose his handle on the ball and he should not be able to make it all the way to the hoop...in this animation, the dunker is able to continue the dunk animation completely uninterrupted. if there were real physics going on here, then both players would've slammed into eachothter and both players wouldn't tumbled to the ground. once again EA makes a false claim on a new feature. the physics affect the defender, but the physics do not affect the dunker. not sim. if the physics are only going to affect one player (the defender) then you can't claim to have real physics...what you have is HALF-real physics. 2-player animations are better than this, because at least a 2-player collision animation would yield a realistic result in which both players take a tumble.

[blues rocker]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos: 3 Quick Clips

I am not buying into the hype. If these devs want to show clips dont the show flawed ones. How can the Artest-Wallace clip be a demonstration of real physics when Artest's dunk animation was not affected? The only animation that changed was Wallace as he animated around the actual play. Artest kept plowing forward as if he was never touched. Silly dev doesnt realize that is not true physics and they should go back tot he lab and work on thier collision engine. Artest dunk animation should have adjusted when contacted, and Wallace should not have floated backwards when contacted in the air. There should have been an in air collision, and the player with the most momentum depending on weight on speed of movement should win. Allowing Artest to continue to amimate forward with his dunk is the same garbage that 2K basketball patched last year. Plus, why did the blocked layup look so cheap and scripted. Any ball player knows that you are taught to use the backboard in the instance. It appears he just through it up to the rim to get blocked. Not realistic at all devs.

well, you beat me to it. after i posted my comment, i realized that you basically said the same thing already.

you are absolutely right. in a true physics-based collision, both players would be affected as they slam into eachother, and both players would lose control. from this video it is clear that EA is only allowing the phyics to affect the defenders in order to have unrealistic "exciting highlight dunks" in which a dunker can slam right through a defender and complete the dunk every time...this is not real physics. this is pandering to casual fans who want to see 60 dunks per game. if EA were truly committed to real physics, they would've had artest lose the ball and tumble to the ground....but that wouldn't please the teenagers who want to see a completed dunk on every play. it's clear that EA is trying to only appeal to the casual gamer by making it way too easy to complete highlight dunks...while 2k is trying to please both sim gamers as well as casual gamers (with their multiple "game styles")

this "collision" dunk video only confirms what i already susptected (i put "collision" in quotes because it's not a real collision. Rasheed is colliding, but Artest is not colliding...rather, Artest is plowing through Rasheed like a 2000 pound wrecking ball, which is not realistic). EA's claim of "real physics" was not true. they may fool some people with these superman dunks where dunkers can power through defenders like a snow plow, but EA is not fooling me. it's insulting to my intelligence that they would put up that video thinking everyone would be fooled by their fake enthusiasm. I can tell that's not a real collision. i'm not stupid, EA.

[SageInfinite]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos: 3 Quick Clips

Waiting on the demo. So far nothing has impressed me .

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos: 3 Quick Clips

I will just wait for the demo......

[theprocess]

I'm really intrigued. These are just samples of what EA is going to allow us to do the DEMO is not even out yet. I do believe we need more constructive criticism because of the simple fact that we are getting a chance to share our feedback through the actual developers of the game. In my Sega Genesis (Lakers vs. Celtics) days I never even thought this could be a possibility.

I don't believe that Bynum would lose the ball every time he attempts a fancy dribble and I'm pretty certain that's not EA's intention. We just have to wait and see.

As far as the dunk collision goes, I remember a crazy dunk D-wade threw down on Verajao last year. D-wade was able to finish his dunk, stopped in mid-air, and sent verajao into next week. I think what happened was feasible but it should in the end affect the offensive and defensive player in some way.
If this new physics system actually works the way it's supposed to then I think we can have ourselves a winner.

I'm more concerned on the passing game, as far as setting picks and getting the ball in between players for some nice team play. Is the ball going to bounce off peoples bodies or is going to warp through the player?

People need to realize that some of these videos are still in the developmental stages or do I just appreciate this because I'm much older.

[Ballatician]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos: 3 Quick Clips

Quick question. Is there any way to add a crouch animation in the game at this point? I loved Live 10 but one thing that really bothered me was the rocket jumps for dunks and rebounds. The players never bent their knees and it made the game feel stiff.

[frostbyte06]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos: 3 Quick Clips

I've seen a couple of guys express concerns about Artest not being affected by the collision. reAnimator said that the code version at that point had NOT had the logic implemented for Artest to affected. See his post here. He also said that some vids Monday should show the affects of that, so let's at least give that a chance and see the results before we start bringing the hammer down.

[coolcras7]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos: 3 Quick Clips

I've seen a couple of guys express concerns about Artest not being affected by the collision. reAnimator said that the code version at that point had NOT had the logic implemented for Artest to affected. See his post here. He also said that some vids Monday should show the affects of that, so let's at least give that a chance and see the results before we start bringing the hammer down.

yeah putting out that video was a mistake, hopefully the one that comes out tomorrow will better display there physics engine.

[dco361]

I'm working on that today actually. We don't have player ratings in yet for in air collisions so it's a very simple algorithm that decides if one, both or none get altered and by how much.

What you see in this video is extremely rare in the game right now, which was one of the reasons we captured it.

I'll see if I can get you guys some examples of dunk on attempts that do get altered for some of the next videos so you can see the difference.

What you see here should really only play for a very, very strong player dunking on a very, very weak player.

I normally only buy 2K (jumped ship after Live 06) but now I actually have an iota of interest in Elite this year. Looks decent so far...