NBA Elite 11 Videos and Impressions From the Boost Mobile Elite 24 Event

[HoosierDaddy]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos and Impressions From the Boost Mobile Elite 24 Event

I'm speaking on behalf of the others debating the other side of this. I know EA will have ratings tied into all of this. I'm hoping this doesn't become an issue when the game is launched. However, if you don't see it happen in real-life, don't put it in the game. It's that simple to me, others will disagree, so we'll respect each other's opinions and move on. Keep in mind, it's been confirmed these videos were an earlier build and many things have changed since then.

[rEAnimator]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos and Impressions From the Boost Mobile Elite 24 Event

there's no grey area. Either you represent or imitate what you see in real-life or you don't. I don't see how you can say, we're a sim game but allow players to do moves they don't do in real-life or give users the ability to pull off moves that their real-life counterparts don't attempt. Notice I said don't attempt, 90% of these players CAN probably dunk if they wanted to, but you don't see it. Pick-up games or warmups, FINE, but when the whistle blows you won't see them trying it.

We're a sim game, but we allow users to attempt moves that the player they are controlling wouldn't normally attempt because part of the simulation we offer is giving you complete control over that one player while the AI controls the rest of them in an attempt to mimic their real life tendencies and behaviors.

In every sim basketball game ever made you could attempt a three pointer with shaq every time up the court if you wanted to (at least as far as I know). That doesn't make the game any less sim, it just means the player isn't playing in a realistic maner.

We've extended the control you are used to with three pointer's to all dribble moves, shots, steals, alley oops...pretty much everything you can do in basketball.

Same rules as the three pointer, just applied to all aspects of the game.

I agree with your previous points about not being able to succeed where the real life player couldn't (ie the boozer dunk).

But having he ability to attempt the move and fail has been a staple in all sim games with shooting.

So why would it be any different for the other user controlled actions?

I think it's fair to disagree with our choice of controls, but I don't think it's fair to say we are not a sim game because of those choices.

[HoosierDaddy]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos and Impressions From the Boost Mobile Elite 24 Event

I'm not saying I don't think it's a sim-game. I'm saying if it doesn't happen in real-life, it shouldn't be in the game. That's where we disagree. As far as shooting goes, I posted this a few pages back..

Same could be said with dribbling. We had the debate while we were at community day about what should happen when big men dribble the ball. Yes, they obviously CAN dribble between their legs, but how often do you see it? It's either slow down the animation and decrease the success of such a move and eventually depending on pressure lose the ball or you allow them to pull off the same types of moves that PGs can do at will. Just because they CAN do it, doesn't mean it's realistic. My whole point is, how often do you see it while you're watching NBA basketball, very rarely. So the game should reflect as much.

Shot attempts are a different story, you CHOOSE to take that shot. That's something that is more in your control, per say. You never see those unless it's a last second shot attempt, but when you see players who never dribble or dunk like that, it seriously adds to the unauthentic nature of a game.

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos and Impressions From the Boost Mobile Elite 24 Event

there's no grey area. Either you represent or imitate what you see in real-life or you don't. I don't see how you can say, we're a sim game but allow players to do moves they don't do in real-life or give users the ability to pull off moves that their real-life counterparts don't attempt. Notice I said don't attempt, 90% of these players CAN probably dunk if they wanted to, but you don't see it. Pick-up games or warmups, FINE, but when the whistle blows you won't see them trying it.

Because they give you the option which make the game less scripted. Maybe not so much in the case of Nash attempting a dunk ,but attempting awkward shoots and players losing the ball and/or taking off from to far out to complete a dunk. Stuff like this does happen and it would add to an organic feel. The problem with canned aminations is that it all starts to feels the same. Having options will make it feel fresher IMO.

[fatleg3]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos and Impressions From the Boost Mobile Elite 24 Event

The attempt isn't really the unrealistic part, its the way it looks that makes it unrealistic imo.

Guys shouldn't be able to do things that are physically impossible like Boozer did but attempting to do them is a whole different issue.

I shouldn't be able to dunk like Boozer did in that clip because its not something he or anybody else could do irl imo.

If the player wants to attempt a dunk thats fine but visually they shouldn't be doing what he did. They should take a few more steps to the basket not rocket jump to complete the dunk.

You couldn have said it any better. What should not be in the game is what people are physically unable to do. But to say that you shouldnt be able to do what a player irl wouldnt do is unrealistic is crazy. You would not see a player irl take the ball and run out of bounds on purpose so then should their be some kind of force field stopping them from doing so in the game?

[HoosierDaddy]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos and Impressions From the Boost Mobile Elite 24 Event

I guess my point is, I want my basketball game to reflect what I see each night during the NBA season. I spent days editing sliders for both Live and 2K, adjusting vertical ratings and dunking ability to reflect what happens in real-life.

I get that the control provides users the ability to do something different. I also think that sacrifices the realism of the sport.

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos and Impressions From the Boost Mobile Elite 24 Event

You couldn have said it any better. What should not be in the game is what people are physically unable to do. But to say that you shouldnt be able to do what a player irl wouldnt do is unrealistic is crazy. You would not see a player irl take the ball and run out of bounds on purpose so then should their be some kind of force field stopping them from doing so in the game?

I tried to make this point earlier about heaving 80ft shots everytime you in bound the ball. Not very realistic but you could very well do it every possession in every basketball game. Should you not be able to shoot until you pass half-court?

[fatleg3]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos and Impressions From the Boost Mobile Elite 24 Event

Maybe i didnt play enough live 10 and that may be the case but in that game you could attempt a crossover and say complete it with Shaq?

If i remember right yes you could attempt a crossover with shaq. But i think the animation would either slow down or if someone was guarding you tight then you would lose the ball

But that was 10. With the direction elite is going in hopefully things like that will change. Hopefully he will lose the ball no matter what the situation is

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos and Impressions From the Boost Mobile Elite 24 Event

I guess my point is, I want my basketball game to reflect what I see each night during the NBA season. I spent days editing sliders for both Live and 2K, adjusting vertical ratings and dunking ability to reflect what happens in real-life.

I get that the control provides users the ability to do something different. I also think that sacrifices the realism of the sport.

Thats the thing were talking about user control. If you dont want to attempt a dunk with Nash dont because 99.9% you'll fail ,but the option is there and will wow you that 0.1% you see it LOL.

[mlp111]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos and Impressions From the Boost Mobile Elite 24 Event

We're a sim game, but we allow users to attempt moves that the player they are controlling wouldn't normally attempt because part of the simulation we offer is giving you complete control over that one player while the AI controls the rest of them in an attempt to mimic their real life tendencies and behaviors.

In every sim basketball game ever made you could attempt a three pointer with shaq every time up the court if you wanted to (at least as far as I know). That doesn't make the game any less sim, it just means the player isn't playing in a realistic maner.

We've extended the control you are used to with three pointer's to all dribble moves, shots, steals, alley oops...pretty much everything you can do in basketball.

Same rules as the three pointer, just applied to all aspects of the game.

I agree with your previous points about not being able to succeed where the real life player couldn't (ie the boozer dunk).

But having he ability to attempt the move and fail has been a staple in all sim games with shooting.

So why would it be any different for the other user controlled actions?

I think it's fair to disagree with our choice of controls, but I don't think it's fair to say we are not a sim game because of those choices.

any news on the 5-on-5 gameplay that you guys are releasing, cause you guys aren't really saying anything, on twitter, facebook, etc haven't heard or updated anything nba elite 11???????

[HoosierDaddy]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos and Impressions From the Boost Mobile Elite 24 Event

I tried to make this point earlier about heaving 80ft shots everytime you in bound the ball. Not very realistic but you could very well do it every possession in every basketball game. Should you not be able to shoot until you pass half-court?

That's a totally different argument, IMO. Users who choose to do that, can do so. Users who choose to dribble with Shaq as a PG and try to crossover should be penalized and have a risk/reward type system. Users who try to dunk with Fisher, a dunk shouldn't even be an option. Signature layup package, tear-drop or floaters from a further distance, or a jumpshot from even further out. Why complicate things with shots that a player doesn't attempt? It shouldn't even be an option.

I'm familiar enough with the controls to not try moves like this. My point is, users (like the ones in the videos) don't know any better and make the game look bad. Playing against someone user vs user and having the ability to do such moves/shots makes it feel unrealistic. Why not cut your losses and sacrifice that "control" for realism? That's been the problem with the Live series for years, how many times a game do you think to yourself or say, "yeah right, so and so can't do that"

[Live_4real]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos and Impressions From the Boost Mobile Elite 24 Event

Let´s be more clear, because this is not a easy problem....

BY NO MEANS should the AI try to dunk with Nash, or dribble with Bynum, etc, etc, the CPU AI should play sim ball all the time, and tendencies meaning something, so they will play like the real Nash and the real Bynum.....

Now that we understand this part, let´s talk about user control....

By giving the ability to ATTEMPT a dunk from the FT line with Boozer, we would see guys getting blocked by the rim or adjusting mid-air, because Boozer can´t do that in real life

But people ask, but do you see people missing so many dunks in the real NBA???

The answer is no, because each player KNOWS his ability, and when they think they can do what they can´t, player ether fail or adjusts


Because you are not the player, you re simply controlling him, you should (if you have time/love the sport) know what a player can and can´t do, meaning that some people would love this game because they understand b-ball, and other will hate it, because they don´t know why cant Boozer do what LBJ does in the game

This "problem" can be resumed in 1 question:

Does EA want user to TOTALLY use players skill and lack of skill, meaning that it could create beauty moments when I am playing with a scrub, thinking he is LBJ, and failing hard

or

Does EA want to limit the user control, meaning that the user probability of doing something stupid would decrease, meaning that it would take less skill/NBA knowledge to be decent at the game, also meaning that it would be impossible to see videos like we saw a couple of days ago, because it would be a much more user friendly game?

I think EA will go with the 2nd option, because people will complain that the game is too difficult, others will say that they can´t play online because they constantly see gamers doing stupid stuff or noobs, unfortunately FOR ME, but I understand that they have to control gamers, even more now that the 2 player animations are out....

(attention people, we are talking about trying to do things players can´t/or simply don´t in real life, but NOT being efficient, meaning that if you do these things you will be punished, this would give even more responsibility to the gamer, but of course the ratings should be simply perfect, and unfortunately in these last years we saw some bad bad ratings in live games, but it is difficult to nail them because players change quickly so...)

PeAcE

[Rocboyz101]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos and Impressions From the Boost Mobile Elite 24 Event

Its still funny that this is an argument. By this logic, alot of you guys would be fine with being able to attempt to dunk from the 3 pt line. Some stuff just shouldn't be in the game.

[fatleg3]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos and Impressions From the Boost Mobile Elite 24 Event

I guess my point is, I want my basketball game to reflect what I see each night during the NBA season. I spent days editing sliders for both Live and 2K, adjusting vertical ratings and dunking ability to reflect what happens in real-life.

I get that the control provides users the ability to do something different. I also think that sacrifices the realism of the sport.

The point of a sports video game to me is doing anything you want to do as long as it fits within a players boundaries. If the only things that you were allowed to do in the game was things you see players do irl then everything would be canned animations. You would have absolute no control. You might as well let the computer play for you.

sports games gives users the chance to take control of a team and do what they what to do. That is why its a game.

But i understand what you are trying to get at. I hate to see cheesers doing things online then get rewarded for it with points or a win. There needs to be more penalties when it comes to that and i dont mean disconnections, bans, etc. But things like missed shots, turnovers, losses, fatigued, etc.

[erickonasis]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos and Impressions From the Boost Mobile Elite 24 Event

Its still funny that this is an argument. By this logic, alot of you guys would be fine with being able to attempt to dunk from the 3 pt line. Some stuff just shouldn't be in the game.

Exactly...according to them...oh but thats TOTAL CONTROL...its just stupid that someone would get excited over being able to have the control to do impossible things....