Suction, Control, and Animations

[Behindshadows]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

Its been a foundation with this game since nex gen man

Dont you get it, people never asked for control schemes, they wanted a real life resembling game, a better dynasty, customizable options, and on and on

I mean for instance, if not for those videos, the game would've shipped with Boozer and likley other guys like Big baby davis jumping from the ft line... that trash has nothing to do with sim NBA Basketball at all

The things WTF explained basically explained some of the reasons why people cannot trust EA, and again alot of things asked for were ignored again for an unnecessary controls scheme again, its like the mark is missed and this is why you see people saying they're done

IMO man, the generic feel of the game will get old because you cant have Gasol and LeBron dunking alike, Gasol, Okafor Dwight and CP3 with matched speed running up court, role players with Magic Johhson precision passing, and Wade and Ariza dribbling just like the other and say dawg, this is exactly what i see on tv.

Just noticing the presentation, the announcers are new, but other than logo wipes, i've seen no change, its the same replays and angles, same cut scenes, etc.. from last year. oh and the beginning they copied the same thing 2k did last year, basically the flashing lights and the angle for the jumpball.

Other than that man, this game is what it is..

Of course people will make their decisions, some already have demo or no demo. We'll see how it ends up, I just dont like the animation is the devil campaign going around by some of these posters who have no idea what they're talking about.

Preach on my brotha!!!

I definitely agree with you on the "animations are the devil" comment. It's how the animations are used in the game, not the fact that they exist. I'm not sure what's going on there, because the issue is much deeper and more complex than "animations are bad".

I've heard you say "people never asked for control schemes" in several threads now, and I think you need to think a little bigger picture on that one.

People on these boards may not have, but the market for Elite is much larger.

There's a reason no Basketball game has achieved a 90 metacritic rating where Hockey, Soccer, Boxing, Football (I think) all have.

We think the level of control you have is the reason, and we have a good basis for that opinion.

I have the utmost respect for these forums and the people on them, and I think we need to listen to what you guys want out of a sim game as it is a very important element of making a successful basketball franchise. But it is not the only element.

rEAnimator - I respect you to the up most man!!! Not because your a dev, I could care less. But because I think you genuinely want a good game.

I had to comment on your post on 1 particular statement. Your area of thought is overlooking the facts, compared to a generic number.

The main reason those titles have higher ratings, is due to the insane GRAPHICS they have. Fifa is visually stunning and presentation is amazing, NHL series is rated higher because it's visually stunning and has great presentation. Madden is rated high because every year, the graphics are visually stunning and well, the presentation stinks. But the player models are so detailed, the stadiums are authentic or damn near close. Fight Night Round all of them!!! Are graphics beast and sometimes the presentation is nice.

You guys keep overlooking the fact, that the controls in Live 8,9,10 were not broken. But the areas that were, are still overlooked!!! Graphics, Animations, Contact, Dynasty, Customizations and presentation (commentary especially) are still stale and just not basketball.

[loadleft]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

...We think the level of control you have is the reason, and we have a good basis for that opinion...

I asked this in another thread, but how do you decide what to focus on year to year? I know OS isn't your only source but is there a more influential source of info you use to determine user's desires than message boards, if so what?

[JerseySuave4]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

Of course not everybody will like this control set up, just like not everybody liked FN4s control set up.

All I've been saying is this: if they deliver on the promise of the control scheme and the physics (which still very much is in question) then this game will be a GREAT building block for the future of not only this series, but for basketball games in general. Some people are openly rooting against them, and I don't know how that benefits anyone. Theoretically RTP and true 1-1 controls are better than what we've had before. If they get a chance to fulfill the potential of this new design philosophy, it makes things better for us, as we will get better games. Maybe not this year, but it sets the stage for the future. People complain all the time about how there's no innovation in sports gaming, how everything is so stagnant compared to other genres, but it seems to me like every time a developer takes a chance on a sports game, people whine and complain that things are different than they used to be. It's damaging to the industry. If the game winds up sucking, who cares, except for the people who might lose their jobs over it? There is an alternative game that does things the way they've been done before, and any consumer has the option to purchase that game, if they choose. Nobody is pulling the wool over anybody's eyes, nobody is hiding anything on EA's side. There is a demo coming out that will allow everybody to get a chance to try the game, and we have received a good amount of prerelease information in the form of Q&As and videos. You're not being tricked or deceived in any way. If a consumer decides that EA didn't do enough to get their dollars this year, that's entirely their decision and choice. People around here are acting like the effort wasn't worth it because the 20 minutes of gameplay we have seen (from the first effort, mind you) didn't *look* like it was up to snuff. However, we haven't actually played it yet, nor have we seen whatever might be coming down the road. Wait three years to buy it, I don't care. I'm waiting for the demo to make my decision (much like last year), and if I like it, I'll buy it. If not, I won't, and I'll go to ToG. Or, I'll buy both. It's not *that* serious.

Am i missing something or is this game still going to be $60 like every other new game? Why should we pay full price for a game that is a building block and not a finished product. If they really feel this will be a 3 year phase then why not just take the year off and release a more finished product next year? Oh thats right, they want to make money so they're going to see you a game that is still a work in progress.

That seems to be an EA motto, buy this years game but we'll get everything in next year. Then the next year rolls around and you hear the same thing. I heard the same type of stuff from the Madden people and every year i bought into the stuff they were feeding us and bought the game, was unhappy with it after a week and never touched it again. Same went for NCAA until this year i finally didnt buy Madden because they didnt touch Franchise mode and NCAA finally delivered for the 1st time in a while. But i'm tired of shelling out full price for an unfinished game and i'm tired of them all feeding this "building block" type message.

What happens if this year's game is a flop? Then do they decide the new direction they were going was not the right answer and scrap the game and start over again next year?

They went out on a limb this year by doing the whole name change to gain attention and show a new direction and with them trailing 2k the past few years i don't think they can afford to sell this 3 year plan to people at this point because with all game having declining sales and with the economy the way it is and gamers becomming more and more frustrated when a next gen game doesn't deliver, putting out a halfway done project (in terms of where they imagine this game being in their 3 year plan) isn't going to work.

Theyre really hoping people buy into this long term plan and still hop on board for the ride there instead of jumping ship and maybe coming back if/when this long term plan is finished. And this isn't a first effort. Just because the name of the game is different doesnt mean these people haven't been making basketball games for a long time.

I understand there is still a demo to be played but i have never seen a game put out videos that look bad and then have the actual game be a complete 180 and turn out to be amazing. No you arent actually playing the game when you watch videos but you still can get a good sense for what the game has to offer.

In the grand scheme of things, no its not important or a big deal since we do at least have a choice for basketball games. But i think a lot of the frustration people have is that this franchise seemed to be heading in the right direction making a big leap last year with a game that a lot of people enjoyed and that made people optimistic about this year and then we got the whole new direction stuff which has upset people.

[JerseySuave4]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I asked this in another thread, but how do you decide what to focus on year to year? I know OS isn't your only source but is there a more influential source of info you use to determine user's desires than message boards, if so what?

i'm curious about this as well because controls are one of the few things i never hear people complain about.

[mrprice33]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

Am i missing something or is this game still going to be $60 like every other new game? Why should we pay full price for a game that is a building block and not a finished product. If they really feel this will be a 3 year phase then why not just take the year off and release a more finished product next year? Oh thats right, they want to make money so they're going to see you a game that is still a work in progress.

That seems to be an EA motto, buy this years game but we'll get everything in next year. Then the next year rolls around and you hear the same thing. I heard the same type of stuff from the Madden people and every year i bought into the stuff they were feeding us and bought the game, was unhappy with it after a week and never touched it again. Same went for NCAA until this year i finally didnt buy Madden because they didnt touch Franchise mode and NCAA finally delivered for the 1st time in a while. But i'm tired of shelling out full price for an unfinished game and i'm tired of them all feeding this "building block" type message.

What happens if this year's game is a flop? Then do they decide the new direction they were going was not the right answer and scrap the game and start over again next year?

They went out on a limb this year by doing the whole name change to gain attention and show a new direction and with them trailing 2k the past few years i don't think they can afford to sell this 3 year plan to people at this point because with all game having declining sales and with the economy the way it is and gamers becomming more and more frustrated when a next gen game doesn't deliver, putting out a halfway done project (in terms of where they imagine this game being in their 3 year plan) isn't going to work.

Theyre really hoping people buy into this long term plan and still hop on board for the ride there instead of jumping ship and maybe coming back if/when this long term plan is finished. And this isn't a first effort. Just because the name of the game is different doesnt mean these people haven't been making basketball games for a long time.

I understand there is still a demo to be played but i have never seen a game put out videos that look bad and then have the actual game be a complete 180 and turn out to be amazing. No you arent actually playing the game when you watch videos but you still can get a good sense for what the game has to offer.

In the grand scheme of things, no its not important or a big deal since we do at least have a choice for basketball games. But i think a lot of the frustration people have is that this franchise seemed to be heading in the right direction making a big leap last year with a game that a lot of people enjoyed and that made people optimistic about this year and then we got the whole new direction stuff which has upset people.

If you play the demo and watch the videos, and think that this isn't the game for you, then don't buy it. It's none of my concern.

I've made my point and I stand by it. For once a sports game isn't resting on its laurels and actually trying to do something exciting. I hope it works, but if it doesn't, I'm perfectly satisfied with what they're doing over on that other game, and will buy that game. If you aren't, then that's a big problem, and you should probably keep playing 10, but that doesn't seem to be the main focus of the complaints here.

This has been a generation of games which, with few exceptions, is still rooted deeply in a last-gen philosophy of design. Many of the game mechanics have remained the same, while things like graphics and sound design have been the parts of most games which have received the biggest upgrades. The team at Elite obviously think that by differentiating themselves in this drastic way that they can get people back to their game who think that the genre (or industry) has grown stale. It's something you can't say for a lot of games that come out, and I can really respect that mentality. Ultimately, though, it comes down to whether or not the game is any good, and everyone will get plenty of opportunities to find out the answer to that question without having to spend any money at all.

[stepsix]

I just want to say one thing because I feel as though the difference is subtle - the main difference this year is the level of CONTROL you have over a player - the changes to the CONTROLS are a result of the additional control you're given. I agree Live 10 had great controls, possibly the best to date, but that was not the focus of this year. Sorry to side track but I see some people not making the distinction...we know Live's control scheme was solid (I personally had a hand in it so a part of me was sad to see it go [it is still selectable as an alternate, but not nearly as fun imo])
But the changes to controller config were a complement to the underlying philosophical (user level of control) design shift.

[2kfanatic]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I definitely agree with you on the "animations are the devil" comment. It's how the animations are used in the game, not the fact that they exist. I'm not sure what's going on there, because the issue is much deeper and more complex than "animations are bad".

I've heard you say "people never asked for control schemes" in several threads now, and I think you need to think a little bigger picture on that one.

People on these boards may not have, but the market for Elite is much larger.

There's a reason no Basketball game has achieved a 90 metacritic rating where Hockey, Soccer, Boxing, Football (I think) all have.

We think the level of control you have is the reason, and we have a good basis for that opinion.

I have the utmost respect for these forums and the people on them, and I think we need to listen to what you guys want out of a sim game as it is a very important element of making a successful basketball franchise. But it is not the only element.

Your dedication to answering to fans like us is truly awesome. I have not seen any dev in EA like this since forever.

But I don't agree that the control is the main reason why we have not seen a 90+ basketball game. The reviewers are mostly gamers and not ballers, for so long now they have failed to review a game as a basketball video game instead of just a video game.

Reviewers always tend to neglect the little things that makes basketball basketball and they focus more on the technical side of the video game. Nothing wrong with that but it is not enough to evaluate a basketball game.

And yeah, I pretty much agree with everything 23 has said.

[phant030]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

The PS2 tactics and mindset arent working for you guys anymore. You cant just give us Freestyle dribbling and expect it to be what it was in 03. You can't put post moves back in, and not enhance them in any other way..while useful, they have aged. You can't take out AS weekend and leave franchise untouched for yrs. You can't give me sig size ups only to remove them. You can't be winning the control argument vs the competition only to 'revolutize' control but leave everything your losing in in a subpar state....you just can't do it and expect us to 'trust' you.

Secondly, the AI doesnt "feel". The talk of control doesnt help them. You removed 2 player anis but didnt add a tremendous amount of singe player anis either. Elite = user v user in exhibition games because there is no depth or variety in gameplay or game modes. Who needs LBJ when Peja can get it done the same way?

Like 23 said, we had stuff, just needed to be cleaned up. But, we just get new floors (nothing really wrong with the old one) with the same raggedy furniture on top of it with a promise of 'Divine Design' later. smh

[rEAnimator]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

Your dedication to answering to fans like us is truly awesome. I have not seen any dev in EA like this since forever.

But I don't agree that the control is the main reason why we have not seen a 90+ basketball game. The reviewers are mostly gamers and not ballers, for so long now they have failed to review a game as a basketball video game instead of just a video game.

Reviewers always tend to neglect the little things that makes basketball basketball and they focus more on the technical side of the video game. Nothing wrong with that but it is not enough to evaluate a basketball game.

And yeah, I pretty much agree with everything 23 has said.

This is an awesome discussion and drives to the heart of why we chose this direction (imho).

You're right, the reviewers review games as both a pure basketball experience and as a video game. Some take more of the basketball side, and some take more of the video game side.

The average opinion is reflected in the metacritic rating.

And the average amongst consumers is measured in sales.

We still think the basketball side is important, but we feel the video game side has been neglected over the years and needs a serious investment.

If we do a good job with this, we may end up bringing sports gamers who are not basketball fans in to play Elite. If we do that, then they will learn more about the nuances of the sport and may become basketball fans as well.

That's when we know we've made the best game we can.

When basketball fans love it, and non basketball fans try it out and become basketball fans because of how fun the gameplay is.

[convince]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

This is an awesome discussion and drives to the heart of why we chose this direction (imho).

You're right, the reviewers review games as both a pure basketball experience and as a video game. Some take more of the basketball side, and some take more of the video game side.

The average opinion is reflected in the metacritic rating.

And the average amongst consumers is measured in sales.

We still think the basketball side is important, but we feel the video game side has been neglected over the years and needs a serious investment.

If we do a good job with this, we may end up bringing sports gamers who are not basketball fans in to play Elite. If we do that, then they will learn more about the nuances of the sport and may become basketball fans as well.

That's when we know we've made the best game we can.

When basketball fans love it, and non basketball fans try it out and become basketball fans because of how fun the gameplay is.

With all do respect, this is what i take issue with. I think we all can agree that in a general sense casual gamers out number basketball gamers. So its almost like you are letting units sold be an indication in what direction to go. And I just can't see how this can be a good things for "basketball" fans of your game. Its almost like you are sacrificing simulation and realism for something that's easy to pick up and play. This type of direction may be effective in creating a bigger fan base with the casual crowd but you run the danger of alienating fans of basketball that been with the series from the beginning.

[2kfanatic]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

This is an awesome discussion and drives to the heart of why we chose this direction (imho).

You're right, the reviewers review games as both a pure basketball experience and as a video game. Some take more of the basketball side, and some take more of the video game side.

The average opinion is reflected in the metacritic rating.

And the average amongst consumers is measured in sales.

We still think the basketball side is important, but we feel the video game side has been neglected over the years and needs a serious investment.

If we do a good job with this, we may end up bringing sports gamers who are not basketball fans in to play Elite. If we do that, then they will learn more about the nuances of the sport and may become basketball fans as well.

That's when we know we've made the best game we can.

When basketball fans love it, and non basketball fans try it out and become basketball fans because of how fun the gameplay is.

All we ask for is that please stick to the 3 year plan. Please dont reboot again and please when your done with the controls please fix the other aspects too. If you really believe in this please stick with it and not try other things and leave out the others.

[bigballa21]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

All we ask for is that please stick to the 3 year plan. Please dont reboot again and please when your done with the controls please fix the other aspects too. If you really believe in this please stick with it and not try other things and leave out the others.

[2kfanatic]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I'm not really sure what that means lol.

[bls]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I'm not really sure what that means lol.

It means "wishful thinking"

[bigballa21]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I'm not really sure what that means lol.

Open to interpretation......my intention was going for a "good luck with that" type of thing