Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

[Jano]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

Right I realized that after I read my post again Lol!

So then again I ask what makes it real time? Is it the way the the actual steal animation plays out?

So lets say EA allows you to go for steals in every direction by putting the steal action on the right stick. So if you move the stick to the right the player sticks his hand out to the right, up and he stick his hands up for the steal, diaganonal etc.

Is it "real time" because those inputs are available to you as the defender and they will have a direct result on what happens?

And if that is what makes it "real time" does that make it different from 2K system in that you may not have to make the exact movements it just happens automatically? Which is something I've seen happen in 2K where I could just press the steal button and if I timed it right I would get the correct steal animation to play out for me.

[Jesus]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

You have inverse and you have forward kinematics. The difference is if you know your end state or your initial state. Inverse kinematics means that you know the end state (hand meeting the ball at a point in time). So you manipulate the limbs (elbow and/or shoulder) to make the hand hit the point you want. So, in this case, they take the physics of the ball (location, speed, etc..) and determine where they want to hands to meet the ball. Then they play an animation to jump and use IK to alter that animation on the arms to meet the ball at the time of the meeting. This has been done for years in many games - including the 2K titles actually. The key to IK is to limit the possible combinations to those that yield a physically possible solution based on what we know about the human body (the limits of the rotations based on bones and muscles).

Understand?

I think i gotcha, but then where im still fuzzy is beyond rebounds and steals where is the advertisement campaign propelling relevance?

[rEAnimator]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

Right I realized that after I read my post again Lol!

So then again I ask what makes it real time? Is it the way the the actual steal animation plays out?

So lets say EA allows you to go for steals in every direction by putting the steal action on the right stick. So if you move the stick to the right the player sticks his hand out to the right, up and he stick his hands up for the steal, diaganonal etc.

Is it "real time" because those inputs are available to you as the defender and they will have a direct result on what happens?

And if that is what makes it "real time" does that make it different from 2K system in that you may not have to make the exact movements it just happens automatically? Which is something I've seen happen in 2K where I could just press the steal button and if I timed it right I would get the correct steal animation to play out for me.

The real time aspect is how after the action is started, the animation changes dynamically as it plays back to track the ball.

When you get the demo, try it out for yourself.

Go into one one one mode, stand just outside of reach of the dribbler and start attempting to steal over and over again.

Go into replay and watch how the animation changes to track the ball, and how it's slightly different every time.

Same thing happens on blocks and rebounds.

[Jesus]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

The real time aspect is how after the action is started, the animation changes dynamically as it plays back to track the ball.

When you get the demo, try it out for yourself.

Go into one one one mode, stand just outside of reach of the dribbler and start attempting to steal over and over again.

Go into replay and watch how the animation changes to track the ball, and how it's slightly different every time.

Same thing happens on blocks and rebounds.

Any answers for the questions that I posed that you had to scroll by to see the question that you replied to?

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

The real time aspect is how after the action is started, the animation changes dynamically as it plays back to track the ball.

When you get the demo, try it out for yourself.

Go into one one one mode, stand just outside of reach of the dribbler and start attempting to steal over and over again.

Go into replay and watch how the animation changes to track the ball, and how it's slightly different every time.

Same thing happens on blocks and rebounds.

So you're just updating the IK target as the animation plays. That's simple enough.

[ParisB]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

Any answers for the questions that I posed that you had to scroll by to see the question that you replied to?

Its been answered a hundred times in the Physics thread.

There's a big difference between canned animations and simply two separate players being engaged in their own contextual animations. That doesn't make it canned.

Canned means two players engage in what's basically "one" animation that plays the same way every single time and you can't break out of it.

[rEAnimator]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

So you're just updating the IK target as the animation plays. That's simple enough.

LOL...yeah, I guess it sounds simple

Making it look good is the tricky part. Especially when the user can still move around while it's happening.

It's the layering of the different animations that can play back at different times and all get altered in real time.

Getting them to sync up properly but still react dynamically is tricky.

I'm traveling to Korea and China at the end of next week to give a presentation at a games conference on how we used IK and physics in NBA Elite 11.

I'll be working on the presentation when I get back to the office. It will take me several days to prepare.

believe me, it's quite involved, but in the end you're right. It boils down to moving IK targets and changing animation blends.

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

LOL...yeah, I guess it sounds simple

Making it look good is the tricky part. Especially when the user can still move around while it's happening.

It's the layering of the different animations that can play back at different times and all get altered in real time.

Getting them to sync up properly but still react dynamically is tricky.

I'm traveling to Korea and China at the end of next week to give a presentation at a games conference on how we used IK and physics in NBA Elite 11.

I'll be working on the presentation when I get back to the office. It will take me several days to prepare.

believe me, it's quite involved, but in the end you're right. It boils down to moving IK targets and changing animation blends.

Ah, right. I neglected the layering/compositing of the animations. Yes, that IS very involved. Sounds like you guys have a good animation system in place. Use that power wisely!

[Jesus]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

Its been answered a hundred times in the Physics thread.

There's a big difference between canned animations and simply two separate players being engaged in their own contextual animations. That doesn't make it canned.

Canned means two players engage in what's basically "one" animation that plays the same way every single time and you can't break out of it.

How does that answer : "how is it possible to not have any canned animations when there are animations where two players interact, every animation is predetermined and non are being created?"

I didnt ask what a canned animation was because i know very well what they are. I just see animations in the game, like the post up for example, where 2 players are interacting with a predetermined outcome. How are those not going classified by EA as canned animations?

[rEAnimator]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

How does that answer : "how is it possible to not have any canned animations when there are animations where two players interact, every animation is predetermined and non are being created?"

I didnt ask what a canned animation was because i know very well what they are. I just see animations in the game, like the post up for example, where 2 players are interacting with a predetermined outcome. How are those not going classified by EA as canned animations?

The difference is that there is no predetermined outcome. Everything plays out in real time and changes based on the actions of the two players.

[mrprice33]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

How does that answer : "how is it possible to not have any canned animations when there are animations where two players interact, every animation is predetermined and non are being created?"

I didnt ask what a canned animation was because i know very well what they are. I just see animations in the game, like the post up for example, where 2 players are interacting with a predetermined outcome. How are those not going classified by EA as canned animations?

What's the predetermined outcome you speak of? There's a big difference between seeing an animation and knowing instantly it will result in a foul and what Elite is doing this year. Yes, a jumpshot animation will result in a jumpshot attempt, but that's not exactly what's going on.

[2kfanatic]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

The difference is that there is no predetermined outcome. Everything plays out in real time and changes based on the actions of the two players.

Can you give us a somewhat list of criteria to determine what animation will be used? If that's not asking for too much.

[rEAnimator]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

Can you give us a somewhat list of criteria to determine what animation will be used? If that's not asking for too much.

For what feature?

[2kfanatic]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

For what feature?

For collision in mid air and during dribbling? (RTP)

[rEAnimator]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

For collision in mid air and during dribbling? (RTP)

mid air collisions:

-velocity and height of the two players
-what action each player was performing
-the direction each player was facing
-the point of contact
-the weight of the two players
-the strength of the two players
-the blocking and shot contact ratings for the two player (if it's a shot) or the rebounding rating (if it's a rebound)
-relative position of the basket

dribbling

-the dribble rating
-what action was performed on the sticks
-are they in contact with a defender or not
-are they "close" the being in contact with a defender
-the angle to the net

I think that about covers it, although I may have missed something.