NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

rEAnimator - PLEASE get EA to focus on momentum (along with animations) next year. That first block attempt where dude comes running over then jumps to the moon, lands with NO momentum carry over and turns with ease to be able to recover and make another block attempt is upsetting to a bruva. Heh. Crawford's momentum should have had more of an affect in taking him out of the play with that kind of running leap.

Be careful with that request. If you want players to respect momentum, you're going to lose a large element of control. You can't have a guy not go where he's wants to go if he has to slow down, turn, and accelerate...

[IV THA UNITY]

Crawford jumping and recovering to jump again is "NOT" real time physics. It's sad that they iterated on this aspect of the game and it seems absent it almost every video. I liked the controls in live 10. They could have been tweaked for more user control but not overhauled. I personally don't want a demo now because this game just looks basic in approach. There is nothing that separates Deron Williams from D-Wade to Carlos Arroyo. They all have the same moves. I wanna play an NBA game to play with NBA players and their move sets. This is just a Basketball game, not NBA basketball, I hope 12 is better next year because I am definitely not buying this because they Sacrificed animations for controls that only needed additions and not an overhaul. IDK, everything sounds good on paper, but in motion it looks bad to me.

[convince]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

Be careful with that request. If you want players to respect momentum, you're going to lose a large element of control. You can't have a guy not go where he's wants to go if he has to slow down, turn, and accelerate...

But it's the only way to prevent sliding and make crossover from Rose vs Eddie House different. This is why i think it will be a slow process. This year TPC, next year less TPC with better Foot Planting, year 3 even less control and more effect of players rating, where Rose crossover and drive is quicker and more effective than Derek Fisher. Because this year i believe the motto is, "If you can think, you can do it" it doesn't matter who you have.

[TreyIM2]

Be careful with that request. If you want players to respect momentum, you're going to lose a large element of control. You can't have a guy not go where he's wants to go if he has to slow down, turn, and accelerate...

Eh, they have to figure out how to make it work where control is not completely sacrificed. That's apart of the engineering team's job - Come up with innovations. Hell, do we as people have control of our momentum when we are trying to slow down after particular movements in life? Nope.

[PRAY IV M3RCY]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

what an incredibly unsatisfying video. Only a min long? Its the same moves over and over again. This isnt representing the sport of basketball in my opinion. All its showing me is a pickup game you might see in your
neighborhood, where people want to show off.

[NS HeLLaDOPe]

I really dont see why everyone is complaining about how high crawford jumped or unrealistic movement,etc...What do yall expect Live franchise has always been about 70% ARCADE 30% SIM, jus becuz the name changed doesnt mean the foundation did, Elite is still more of an ARCADE game then it is a SIM and jus to show us consumers this they put 1 of the greatest ARCADE games of all-time (NBA JAMS) in there game..So basically if you want fully SIM basketball/football get Nba 2k11/Madden 11 and if you want ARCADE with a touch of "SIM " get Nba Elite 11/Blitz!!!!

[jspeed04]

After seeing many of the other hands on videos as well as the head to heads released and being so, so disappointed by them, this looks really good. I hope to see more of the same.

[rEAnimator]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

And it isn't new. left4dead (i think) made a good thread about it, You & Czar tried to explain it to rEAnimator. I threw up a screencap from the Heat/Magic game. No one likes it. I just don't see why de-rail the thread. rEAnimator said that verticals will need to be reduced across the board for the sim gamer, and that's probably as close to an admission as we'll get. After playing the demo, everyone will be on the same playing field in terms of having felt the responsiveness and having a leg to stand on when you tell the devs that no one wants unrealistic jumping sans gathering. Until then, why go on about it? If you show someone something that looks ridiculous and they say it doesn't, what can you do?

On another topic, what happened to leaving a thread alone if there was nothing positive or constructive to say? Navigating Elite threads has been a chore, and yet the only ban is a guy who could have quoted his post from one of Czar's Ten Teams Ten Days video threads?

I had a long PM message with Da_Czar where I explained our reasoning on the high verticals for blocking.

I have to run in a second (in korea at the korean games conference about to give my presentation) but I'll give it a quick go here.

Yes the verticals are unrealistic. But we did that intentionally to make another aspect of the game more realistic.

Basically, we took real life scenarios and tested them out in the game to make sure the game was responding like real life.

So take two equally tall players, put the defender right up on the ball carrier and and tell the defender "I'm going to shoot the ball in 3 seconds" and then do it.

In real life, the defender should block that shot 9/10 times.

In our game at the time, with realistic verticals, you could never, and I mean never, block that shot. The reasons are reaction delay, the time it took the animation to play out with the proper gather, and the general controller latency.

So we tuned the game until we got a real life result for that scenario.

We then proceeded to do the same thing with a ton of other real life scenarios.

What you're left with is a game that "controls" like real life, gives realistic results, but sacrifices realism in other areas, like verticals and jump gathers.

People may not agree with our choices, but you have to admit that it is a perfectly valid approach to building a sim game.

And it offers something gamers haven't had before in a basketball game.

Usually that kind of thing would be appreciated by the hard core.

I'm hoping once the demo gets out people will start to understand better.

hope this made sense...so jet lagged

[noshun]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

I had a long PM message with Da_Czar where I explained our reasoning on the high verticals for blocking.

I have to run in a second (in korea at the korean games conference about to give my presentation) but I'll give it a quick go here.

Yes the verticals are unrealistic. But we did that intentionally to make another aspect of the game more realistic.

Basically, we took real life scenarios and tested them out in the game to make sure the game was responding like real life.

So take two equally tall players, put the defender right up on the ball carrier and and tell the defender "I'm going to shoot the ball in 3 seconds" and then do it.

In real life, the defender should block that shot 9/10 times.

In our game at the time, with realistic verticals, you could never, and I mean never, block that shot. The reasons are reaction delay, the time it took the animation to play out with the proper gather, and the general controller latency.

So we tuned the game until we got a real life result for that scenario.

We then proceeded to do the same thing with a ton of other real life scenarios.

What you're left with is a game that "controls" like real life, gives realistic results, but sacrifices realism in other areas, like verticals and jump gathers.

People may not agree with our choices, but you have to admit that it is a perfectly valid approach to building a sim game.

And it offers something gamers haven't had before in a basketball game.

Usually that kind of thing would be appreciated by the hard core.

I'm hoping once the demo gets out people will start to understand better.

hope this made sense...so jet lagged

After reading this, Im going to pass on the demo as well. Intentionally ganking this game is going to turn a lot of people off.

It doesnt even look realistic. reAnimator, I major in production animation for game design, so having countless hours of human anatomy classes, and learning what the body can do, range of motion, and the limitations on what the human body can do, reading the bolded part has me shaking my head.

I understand the use of exaggeration to portray an action but super human leaps, and still going up after contact is absurd.. save that mess for Looney Tunes and Roadrunner/Wile E. Coyote.

[rEAnimator]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

After reading this, Im going to pass on the demo as well. Intentionally ganking this game is going to turn a lot of people off.

Can you explain why? We're after realism, we're just going about it a different way.

You'd prefer a game with realistic visuals but unrealistic behavior as a player?

[2kfanatic]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

Can you explain why? We're after realism, we're just going about it a different way.

You'd prefer a game with realistic visuals but unrealistic behavior as a player?

Can't you just adjust how fast a player shoot so that realism in verticals don't have to be compromised? Just a suggestion lol.

[Saviour]

So you're saying you just want to see this basketball game just play some basic basketball... I feel you there. But that what I felt the gameplay footage was doing and that's why I was hoping for more than a 1 minute clip of 5 seconds of actions.

I cannot say that this was someone just playing basketball. It appeared that they were just setting up a weak highlight to show the new dribbling engine. All of the videos so far have felt this way. Every video I have seen with the developers playing have the PG crossing over and going around the back each time the bring the ball up court. I get it, you have right stick dribbling. But stop making it look like a cheesers paradise. I already see how playing random games will turn into And 1 basketball. If its that easy to crossover, why wouldnt everyone do it.

[Jano]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

Well its nice to see that you guys went through this and thought about it deeply before putting in the game. And I'll even forgive you guys for it if I'm playing this game months down the road and I see that it has more of a positive effect on the gameplay then a negative one.

But my question is are you going to work on this issue to make sure that gathers are in next years game? Or is this just going to be the way you are going to handle that aspect of gameplay from now on?

[convince]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

Can you explain why? We're after realism, we're just going about it a different way.

You'd prefer a game with realistic visuals but unrealistic behavior as a player?

Sounds to me like you are sacrificing actual visual realism to get "Realistic" stats, and IMO I just couldn't disagree more.

[DakkoN]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

Can you explain why? We're after realism, we're just going about it a different way.

You'd prefer a game with realistic visuals but unrealistic behavior as a player?

No offense, but I honestly can't read this and keep a straight face after watching Carlos Boozer take off from the free throw line and do a MJ dunk in one of the other videos.. I think it's clear the audience that you're trying to appeal to, it's the same audience that wanted NBA Jam so bad and who will be willing to buy the game even more because because NBA Jam is packaged in. In previous games and going by videos, this one as well, it's took major slider and roster edits to get it to play a realistic game. I got no problem with the series being an arcade game, I just wish someone would admit it.