Chris' Blog: Playing the blame game with NBA Elite 11

[BrianFifaFan]

Re: Chris' Blog: Playing the blame game with NBA Elite 11

People forget the Marcus also jumped ship. Those two had a definite vision as to what could make Live great again, and saw this coming. At best, the brass should've done like Konami and developed Elite in the shadows as they fully developed Live from it's direction last year, each team building it's efforts where you could match the controls and physics to the existing game. That's a real plan, and one which seems to be serving Konami quite well.

But, like you said Chris, it's all about the panic and the yearly iteration. I know that, many times, I feel like I'm paycheck to paycheck, is that EA's feeling to? "Oh God, if we don't sell another 5 million copies we're gonna go bust?" If so, that's not visionary, it's reactionary. And maybe that's why, more than not, a lot of the modern games tend toward the mediocre and forgettable..... "Gotta make that Gold date...."

[Rocboyz101]

Re: Chris' Blog: Playing the blame game with NBA Elite 11

Reading this reminds me of the first time I heard ether..
I agree with it for the most part..

[RaychelSnr]

Chris you must have missed out on the second Live game on 360 and also the first Sony title on PS3 -- now those were BAD games.

That being said, I don't really have strong feelings one way or the other on this title as of now -- at least not ones that are that different from how I felt at E3.

I'm pretty sure this game might be Live 07's equal. I remember that game, these seem pretty similar to me actually....although I'd have to find Live 07 in the archives just to make sure. I get the same feeling at least playing them

[Eski33]

Chris,

No disrespect to your opinion but to say that this is going to be a disaster is a stretch. Did you play MLB 2K9 or MLB 2K10? Those were a disaster.

I think the developers are going the right way with the controls. 2K's has a scroll with all of the buttons you have to push (i.e. a layup is X, X, A, B, RS, RS, LS, RS3, R1, L1, L2)...It's like trying to get fatality in Mortal Kombat.

Elite doesn't play poorly and the controls come with a bit of a learning curve but once you get past "EA Sports" and actually play the demo a few times, the controls are solid. The ability to miss a free throw with direction and distance has never been done and you can do that in this game. Not to mention, the classic controls are still available for those that cannot grasp or just plain dislike the new control scheme.

Here we have a sport in which we have options in terms of video games and people want to bash this and that instead of looking at the game itself.

I found the atmosphere and commentary to be outstanding. The ability to try the new career mode was a nice touch as well.

I haven't purchased a NBA title in years and I will buy 2K because of the classic teams (could care less about Jordan). Give me Nique and the Hawks or the 90's Pistons any day. But I am also considering Elite as it does offer a different way to play....

[cbass1]

That's another good analogy. If Elite gets a few more years, I think they're thinking outside of the box enough to deliver something really awesome. But Elite 11 set EA basketball back 4 years....not a good place to start when you were already playing from behind.

Your right, which mean's the EA basketball series is in serious trouble. I can't imagine EA investing into another 3 years to finally get a good product in 2014

[ChaseB]

I'm pretty sure this game might be Live 07's equal. I remember that game, these seem pretty similar to me actually....although I'd have to find Live 07 in the archives just to make sure. I get the same feeling at least playing them

Ha there's NOOOO WAYYY! Seriously go find that game and play it or see if there is a demo of it on the Marketplace. It's so shoddy. The animation system was like broken, and it still had horrendous controls etc. It was an actual abomination. Even if you don't like this game, at least you can get through playing it. I'm not sure it would be possible with Live 07.

[ChaseB]

Ha there's NOOOO WAYYY! Seriously go find that game and play it or see if there is a demo of it on the Marketplace. It's so shoddy. The animation system was like broken, and it still had horrendous controls etc. It was an actual abomination. Even if you don't like this game, at least you can get through playing it. I'm not sure it would be possible with Live 07.

PS, I'm pretty sure Live 07 was the one that literally had no good camera to use in it. It was awkward to play with any of the camera angles in the game.

[intruda119]

Re: Chris' Blog: Playing the blame game with NBA Elite 11

Everyone has different tastes when it comes to just about everything. THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL A TRUE BASKETBALL PLAYER or FAN can really take this game serious. Im not saying you have to switch to 2k and never look back. But this game is NOT basketball. Its nowhere near sim and I wouldnt put it in the category of arcade. When companies think they can wrap there poop up and put their name on the product and hope it sells. Besides last year do you think our disappointment is anything new. Theres always something missing. Same company who tried to buy the NBA license. I cant really express without being banned but its almost worth it.

[Mickey_Vee]

It Not just the controls but the overall unrealistic feel that I think makes the game unable to compete with 2k this year and has been a trend for awhile now I'm glad I realize this at nba live 03 the last EA basketball game i purchases nd it SAD because we as consumers need competition to get the best product

[IV THA UNITY]

Controls, controls, controls. I honestly don't see the point in putting the bulk of your game development time into this aspect because that is what playtesting and usability test help tweak during the dev process. What they should have been doing is rewarding the user for learning these controls and linking them together aesthetically. For example why allow me to do all these things that play out in a generic fashion. Where is the difference in play style that would make me want to learn the controls ? I showed a friend that was skeptical, the video of Kobe Work done and he immediately said I wanna learn how to play like that. See how that works. I asked on the forums a while back about a "Low skill floor, High skill ceiling" and I got no response. Now I see why. There aren't any rewards for learning these difficult controls and what you see plays out rather ugly.

Also remember the vids when the guy kept stopping on fast breaks, well at least now we know why. Honestly, I feel like the deal with synergy that was acquired a few years back is now a waste of money because this game has taken EA back to many years to compete. One thing I have noticed throughout the years is that EA sports relies alot on gimmicks (the hook as they call it in the gaming industry) without polishing the basic gameplay itself. Every game has controls... duh, but when the Kinesthetics don't match the aesthetics it won't matter how good the game controls. You can't give me uber hard controls with a lot of room for error with bad aesthetics because I or the average consumer won't want to play it. Also I'm not saying things shouldn't change but as long as I can remember passing has never been a shoulder button.When you change things that don't need to be changed you throw a shock to the system of the consumer which is an instant turnoff.

Also EA needs to watch basketball and stop trying to give us their version and just emulate the game. Basketball is already a fun game to play. It doesn't need gimmicks, actually no I am sorry it does, but the gimmicks are the Star players that do amazing things on the court using their abilities, with that said I wanna play like Kobe, I want his move set, I want his different jump shots, his mannerisms on the court.

I don't know who this game was made for but it definitely isn't for a NBA fan. When i watch a basketball game on T.V. if I see a move done I wanna be able to turn my Xbox or ps3 on and recreate what I saw. I want it to look as close to that as possible. Not try to emulate it but it looks like crap because the game lacks the players moves set. I am highly upset with elite. I wanted to curse and act out of place on the forum and show how really disgusted I was with this demo. (and yes I put in about four hours on it) Just take the NBA and all of its likenesses off of the game and the game would be perfect for what it is... A generic Basketball game. EA has lost me and I haven't missed a EA BBAll game since Lakers Vs. Celtics.

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Re: Chris' Blog: Playing the blame game with NBA Elite 11

But, like you said Chris, it's all about the panic and the yearly iteration. I know that, many times, I feel like I'm paycheck to paycheck, is that EA's feeling to? "Oh God, if we don't sell another 5 million copies we're gonna go bust?" If so, that's not visionary, it's reactionary. And maybe that's why, more than not, a lot of the modern games tend toward the mediocre and forgettable..... "Gotta make that Gold date...."

Thats it right there. When you hype a game as much as Live 07 and it ends up being a bad game its going to take time to recover so you cant react to sells for a number of years. We are in a recession, the comp doesn't suck... sells were supposed to drop.

ELITE should be pulled. I dont even think the demo is that bad its just that the comp is mean this year, and whenever you present anything new you are going to face skepticism. Backbreaker's physics are unearthly compared to ELITE and it still catches hell because it does a lot of things different. To be different against stiff competition and pick up any type of market share you have to be really exceptional. So yes pull the game take a year off and make something exceptional. There was a time when Fifa, Triple Play, Madden, and NHL stunk. I know a lot of people aren't big on Madden but its a lot better than Madden 95, 2002, and I would say 04 but many like that game blah blah my point is it can be done.

Yeah and I agree the culture plays a role. If EA pulled ELITE you would have a bunch of people talking about Live is dead and stuff and make it out to be some war that EA lost. I think it should be embraced.

[ultralow]

Re: Chris' Blog: Playing the blame game with NBA Elite 11

I going to go on and say this IF elite 11 had the grx of 2k 11 this game would sale like crazy ....headline great grx and easy to pick up and play....forget rating its all stick skills.....does that sound like a game you know ? Madden.....

[fcabanski]

"is controlls all that matter in a basketball game?"

It matters more than whether the headbands are accurate, or whether the uniforms are accurate, or whether the stadiums are accurate. Everyone is judging this without playing multiplayer.

I realize the game vs CPU doesn't look like the real NBA. But maybe the goal is not to make it look or feel exactly like the real NBA with animations. Maybe the goal is to make it a person vs person competitive video game, where people have to watch where and how they dribble or have the ball stolen, where they have to make sure their shots are open shots so they don't get blocked, where they can't sprint for easy dunks every possession.

[IV THA UNITY]

"is controlls all that matter in a basketball game?"

It matters more than whether the headbands are accurate, or whether the uniforms are accurate, or whether the stadiums are accurate. Everyone is judging this without playing multiplayer.

I realize the game vs CPU doesn't look like the real NBA. But maybe the goal is not to make it look or feel exactly like the real NBA with animations. Maybe the goal is to make it a person vs person competitive video game, where people have to watch where and how they dribble or have the ball stolen, where they have to make sure their shots are open shots so they don't get blocked, where they can't sprint for easy dunks every possession.

I get what your saying, but if thats the case whats the purpose of using the NBA license ? and why take away the turbo button do players in the NBA not accelerate when they want? thats how charges and collisions happen, why would you remove that? I say because something must be broken so they eliminate it instead of fixing it. Had they stuck with and reiterated live 10 they would probably have a stellar game this year.

[fcabanski]

To continue my last post, in the NBA guys pass up certain shots because those shots will be blocked, or they'll miss the shot. The real NBA doesn't play the way it plays because of animations. It plays the way it plays because of the realities of what the guys on the floor can accomplish with the ball in the face of other guys trying to stop them. The real NBA has the plays it has, and the schemes it has, because of the way players play (the control!)

Even NBA Live 10 was based on pressing the right buttons to trigger the right animation, running around turbo with Kobe or Lebron until they could work to the basket for a dunk.