Isnt a realistic game "Fun"?

[aholbert32]

I've been reading for the past few weeks many threads where people (devs and users who played the demo) have said the things that make Elite stand out over the other game is control and "fun factor". Now I agree that Elite's control is definetly a step above the competititon but I'm trying to understand why people consider a game that at times can be unrealistic fun.

Whether its football, baseball or basketball, I always have more fun with the game thats closer to real life...no matter who makes the game. I wouldnt consider a game that allows me to do things that dont happen in real life (Ex. Centers doing FT line dunks, PF with guard like dribbling skills) to be fun.

I dont want this discussion to turn into a flame war or even mention the other game but for the people (and devs) who claim Elite is a fun game...what exactly makes it fun for you?

[LingeringRegime]

Re: Isnt a realistic game "Fun"?

Unless a game is blatantly arcade (NBA Jam, NBA Street), a game that isn't realistic is more frustrating than fun.

The three games I played with the demo I honestly enjoyed the practice mode a lot. I liked the dribbling and shooting mechanic. Once the game started for some reason it became an exercise in futility.

[aholbert32]

Re: Isnt a realistic game "Fun"?

Unless a game is blatantly arcade (NBA Jam, NBA Street), a game that isn't realistic is more frustrating than fun.

The three games I played with the demo I honestly enjoyed the practice mode a lot. I liked the dribbling and shooting mechanic. Once the game started for some reason it became an exercise in futility.

Completely agree. I can ignore the lack of realism in a game like Street but not in a game that promotes itself as a simulation.

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: Isnt a realistic game "Fun"?

I never get too caught up in realistic vs. unrealistic gameplay.

A game is as realistic or as unrealistic as you play it.

All of these game have arcade elements, and every last one of them provide easy outlets for people to act a fool if that is really what they want to.

Now, if I see something like Steve Nash dunking, like I saw in NBA Live '08...then no, I dont find that fun.


On superstar, I sw Ray Allen do a dunk that I havent seen him do since I was a sophmore at UCONN, and a dunk that KG has absolutely no chance of pulling off anymore.

Thats not fun.

I do get a kick out of 1)seeing teams run the sets that they run in real life, 2) play at the tempo they play and, and 3)have actualy real life plays from their playbooks, as well as 4)Dynamic AI wich allows the CPU to adapt to its surroundings

Elite does 1 1/2 of the 4 really well.

The team playbooks are excellent and as authentic as you can want them to be, with multiple variations. Thats neat to see

The CPU will run the sets, but unfortunately, they do not always react and adapt to what is going on around them. They tend to run the play by script, not flow.
--When the CPU offensive AI goes bonkers, definitely not fun.


Elite/Live has historically had the best defensive CPU AI in the business.

They'll trap a hot player, and force you to give up the ball on a Iso, they rotate well, they double team with authority.

All of that I love seeing.

I wish that the CPU was just as dynamic on the offensive end of the floor, as they are on defense.

Realism on both ends of the floor, helps keep me engaged.

As far as why I like the game, and its realistic elements

-- I do feel a difference in the players I am controlling

---Derek Fisher isnt very quick or elusive.. I have yet to generate any effective dribble-drive penetration with him.

---Artest is a brute once he gets a head of steam, but again, isnt that quick or explosive

---Kobe is every bit as quick, fluid and exlposive as I would like..I defintely feel a difference between moving from jab step/pivot, and chaining dribble drive moves together.

--Pau Gasol's post move success rate/finish rate, is much better then Bynum's.

I can do a nice, smooth, up and under, drop step or shoulder fake into a fallaway, layup, jumper, or hook with Gasol. Bynum is far less agile,quick and smooth with when I get fancy in the post with him.

For me, the fun factor and realism is there as far as what I can do with who.

I understand that I am probably in the minority, in this view.

I spent literally hours, with the controls, and I take my time to set things up and set up moves.

I really, truly believe that how much realism you experience out of the game, will be directly related with how well you understand what to do with your player, when and how.

[aholbert32]

Re: Isnt a realistic game "Fun"?

I never get too caught up in realistic vs. unrealistic gameplay.

A game is as realistic or as unrealistic as you play it.

For me, the fun factor and realism is there as far as what I can do with who.

I understand that I am probably in the minority, in this view.

I spent literally hours, with the controls, and I take my time to set things up and set up moves.

I really, truly believe that how much realism you experience out of the game, will be directly related with how well you understand what to do with your player, when and how.

I see your point but I cant force the CPU to do things that are realistic so it doesnt really matter how I play. I can run the triangle with the Lakers but if the CPU has unresponsive defense, it makes it less fun for me. If the CPU Celtics dont run their offense realistically it makes it less fun for me.

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: Isnt a realistic game "Fun"?

I see your point but I cant force the CPU to do things that are realistic so it doesnt really matter how I play. I can run the triangle with the Lakers but if the CPU has unresponsive defense, it makes it less fun for me. If the CPU Celtics dont run their offense realistically it makes it less fun for me.

I agree and disagree LOL.

I have next to no complaints about the CPUs defense.

Offensively, I agree 100%..the CPU needs more personality and individuality on the offensive end, and play true to the team's system..

One of the things that pleased me the most, was a sequence in my first game, where they where running Ray Allen off of a million screens, and I was chasing him around like mad...I loved that.

Unfortunately, they dont run through their sets enough.

When the game hits retail, Im going to do a complete overall of the CPU's defauly playbooks, to m ake sure that the top 3 scoring options are getting the ball as much as they can..

The default plays for the lakers have play for Bynum that I would never run, and a play for artest that makes no sense (high post Iso)...and Im certain that the C's have a paly for Jermaine O'niell, because he touches the ball way too much.

[RubenDouglas]

Re: Isnt a realistic game "Fun"?

You make it fun by throwing out any concept of sim basketball, sit back, turn on some music, and just play. I wouldnt say you force yourself to do certain things, but you basically play how you did when you were little.. Some people can't revert back.

That sort of playing style may get stale after a month, so thats why I'm truly waiting it out.

Pretty much the AI is terrible in any regard, so that could be a total buzz kill to the vast majority. The only TRUE immersion factor is total control. But that may only get you a complete games deep before you realize, you want much more than a 1997 nba live experience.

And yes, as your thread title states, Isnt a realistic game "fun"? That is true. But it can, in no way, be applied to this game/ SO you have to find your fun in other ways. You just have to.

[MLB01]

Re: Isnt a realistic game "Fun"?

Pretty much the AI is terrible in any regard, so that could be a total buzz kill to the vast majority. The only TRUE immersion factor is total control. But that may only get you a complete games deep before you realize, you want much more than a 1997 nba live experience.

Is it really that bad ?? I never played '97 Live, but do you honestly think Elite 11 plays like a game from 13 years ago ?

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: Isnt a realistic game "Fun"?

You make it fun by throwing out any concept of sim basketball, sit back, turn on some music, and just play. I wouldnt say you force yourself to do certain things, but you basically play how you did when you were little.. Some people can't revert back.

That sort of playing style may get stale after a month, so thats why I'm truly waiting it out.

Pretty much the AI is terrible in any regard, so that could be a total buzz kill to the vast majority. The only TRUE immersion factor is total control. But that may only get you a complete games deep before you realize, you want much more than a 1997 nba live experience.

And yes, as your thread title states, Isnt a realistic game "fun"? That is true. But it can, in no way, be applied to this game/ SO you have to find your fun in other ways. You just have to.

Thats a good point.

There are times when you need to accept that a game 'is what it is' and stop trying to make it or expect it to be something that it wasnt designed to be.

If you can do that, then it just comes down to whether or not you like what the game is.

[PRAY IV M3RCY]

Re: Isnt a realistic game "Fun"?

For me any basketball game can be fun, depending on what it is trying to do and how well it does it. I had a blast playing the nba street series, because they really made the arcadish style of basketball fun. I knew what i was gtetting myself into and i loved it. But when i decide to play either 2k or Live/elite games, its because i want a series representation of the sport of basketball. Basketball in general but I also want it to reflect the NBA. Thats where i lose all interest in Elite, because the game doesnt seem to be in that direction.

[Jano]

Re: Isnt a realistic game "Fun"?

A realisitic game is definitely a lot of fun no doubt about it aholbert. But this game for the time I've spent with it can be pretty fun but in a different kind of way.

I honestly haven't played an EA bball game that felt this unpredictable, for me it kind of captures that intense desperation feeling you get at the end of games like no other. Trying to rally a comeback with the Lakers can be a lot of fun, even if it's done in an unrealistic fashion.

When I play I really do feel like the Lakers in a game 7 situation where everything counts. In some games that 5 mins can feel quick and I can see the momentum shifting really quickly. In other games it can feel like an eternity where its a back n forth struggle between each team (like in my 2OT game).

Where each team is matching each other pound for pound, and then eventually you get that one stop or that one shot that seals the game. It FEELS great but does it look realistic HELL NO lol! but it does capture that element of basketball very well.

And when I turned the playcalling to auto I really started to have fun, Pierce was breaking down my defense off the dribble and posting me up. Allen was burying dagger three's on me left and right. Kobe was burying dagger shots, taking me of the dribble, and occasionally posting up for a fadeaway.

So yea it doesn't look realistic but it can be some fun to play if you can accept it's crappy visuals and sometimes odd AI (which can be fixed sort of with auto playcalling).

[Playmakers]

Re: Isnt a realistic game "Fun"?

You make it fun by throwing out any concept of sim basketball, sit back, turn on some music, and just play. I wouldnt say you force yourself to do certain things, but you basically play how you did when you were little.. Some people can't revert back.

That sort of playing style may get stale after a month, so thats why I'm truly waiting it out.

Pretty much the AI is terrible in any regard, so that could be a total buzz kill to the vast majority. The only TRUE immersion factor is total control. But that may only get you a complete games deep before you realize, you want much more than a 1997 nba live experience.

And yes, as your thread title states, Isnt a realistic game "fun"? That is true. But it can, in no way, be applied to this game/ SO you have to find your fun in other ways. You just have to.

I'm going to turn this bad boi into a run and gun game now.....i wasn't happy with it at all at 1st still not happy with it from a pure basketball standpoint in terms of player indentity on the floor and animations.

But hey it caters to a arcade style then i guess just go with the flow and turn it into a run and gun game....

Like you said fire up some music and just go with the flow....it ain't gonna be SIM style ball this year that's for sure

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Re: Isnt a realistic game "Fun"?

Fun and realism are largely independent. The only time they cross is when a game thats attempting to mimic reality fails in some way.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: Isnt a realistic game "Fun"?

The more realistic a game is, the more fun it is to me. But anytime I can take a Center and Power Forward, have them bring the ball up court, do behind the back dribbles, between the leg dribbles, double crossovers as though they are a PG, something is severely flawed with the game.

What I see with Elite is that everybody can do everything. Everybody got the same handles, can do fancy dunks, etc. So in the grand scheme of things, it means you can play the same way regardless of what team you use.

This game truly does remind me of the run n gun arcade game from the 90s. Now I am sure half of you all probably was just born in the 90s and don't have a clue what I am talking about.

Elite isn't sim by a long shot. Not this year. Now if next year they add on sig dribbles and sig moves that only certain people above a certain rating can do, then yeah this game would play a 100 times better.

But until then, no way a center and PF should dribble as good as a CP3 or Derrick Rose. No way should Ray Allen snag down rebounds like he Dennis Rodman. No way Derrick Fisher should be dunking on people like he is Kobe or Lebron James.

Being this year 1 of a 3 year plan......my expectations weren't that high to begin with. But in year 1 of this plan, I see the foundation has cracks in it. So hopefully they fill in those cracks before they add another layer on top of it. If the foundation is faulty, the whole building will come crashing down.

[phant030]

Re: Isnt a realistic game "Fun"?

Thats a good point.

There are times when you need to accept that a game 'is what it is' and stop trying to make it or expect it to be something that it wasnt designed to be.

If you can do that, then it just comes down to whether or not you like what the game is.

This is what most ppl on this site seem to have a problem with. Almost, like they subject themselves to frustration with their games.....Madden Demo sucks...I bought it anyway......I traded it in the day after....Well I picked it back up again....WTF?

If you don't like something don't play it, don't buy it. Give your constructive criticism and move on......or just move on.