NBA Live Tutorial Videos

[BlueDevilsFan]

Re: NBA Live Tutorial Videos

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
noa999 said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
BlueDevilsFan said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
neovsmatrix said:
Uh, the Live tutorial was to show FREESTYLE defense (which hasn't changed from Live 2003). Not team defense. I don't understand why you have to bash Live constantly, for things that aren't even being shown yet. I make no such conclusions on video footage, because it'd be stupid to do so.

IMHO, the ANIMATIONS for the traps and double teams in Live CAN be judged from vids at least to a point. And to me, they look outstanding.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">



Fully agree. How the team defense is implemented remains to be seen, but from what I've deduced watching all the gameplay footage (probably staged - hahahahaha) is that everything is much improved. I was worried to death about the dunk button creating havoc and another dunk-fest, but it looks and sounds like that's not the case.

Nice Post, neo.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I'm gonna hafta agree with you guys on this one. From the gameplay movies I've seen, the defense looks much better than in 2003. Live IMO looks very sharp this year, the only thing that looks broken is the abused pro-hop. But since they've added sliders, it shouldn't be a problem to fix.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


I don't know if the prohop will be abusable or not - if it gets you into the lane consistently that's one thing, but if you can't score every time you get there it won't be abusable. IE. If you can prohop into traffic whenever you want but can't dunk cleanly or put up a jumper succesfully, you have now given up your dribble and would be forced to pass or you may even get double-teamed/have the ball stripped.

I think the whole 'it's too easy to get into the lane' thing (whether it's freestyle, ISOmotion, or just plowing your way in) is looked at as too much of a negative thing in video hoops games. In reality, quick guards and good slashers can get at least a half-step on their defender and get reasonably close to the basket whenever they want, it's just that they (wisely) don't choose to every possession because they know they will be met by the bigmen inside, blocking them or otherwise forcing them to adjust to a difficult shot.

So, while many games have gone the route of having the defender have a magic invisible wall that won't let the User ever get by the defender, I think this is the wrong approach. What they should be focusing on is having the interior defense be such that if and when a User decides to take the ball to the rack they are met by solid helpside D and miss their shot or get rejected. This would force a User to pick and choose his spots and be sure to only do it with good slashers like Kobe/TMac or guards like Nash/Marbury that can effectively (though not too succesfully) lob a teardrop over the oncoming block.

When a game delivers that (I'm not holding my breath) they'll be onto something.

Know what I mean?

[Muzyk23]

Re: NBA Live Tutorial Videos

I don't believe in what I am saying, but this game is gonna be HOT..

[Muzyk23]

Re: NBA Live Tutorial Videos

I don't believe in what I am saying, but this game is gonna be HOT..

[Muzyk23]

Re: NBA Live Tutorial Videos

I don't believe in what I am saying, but this game is gonna be HOT..

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA Live Tutorial Videos

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
neovsmatrix said:
Uh, the Live tutorial was to show FREESTYLE defense (which hasn't changed from Live 2003). Not team defense. I don't understand why you have to bash Live constantly, for things that aren't even being shown yet. I make no such conclusions on video footage, because it'd be stupid to do so.

IMHO, the ANIMATIONS for the traps and double teams in Live CAN be judged from vids at least to a point. And to me, they look outstanding.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

No doubt the defense "looks" much improved espicially the double teams. either pass it out or get a turnover is what it looks like. Great stuff.

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA Live Tutorial Videos

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
neovsmatrix said:
Uh, the Live tutorial was to show FREESTYLE defense (which hasn't changed from Live 2003). Not team defense. I don't understand why you have to bash Live constantly, for things that aren't even being shown yet. I make no such conclusions on video footage, because it'd be stupid to do so.

IMHO, the ANIMATIONS for the traps and double teams in Live CAN be judged from vids at least to a point. And to me, they look outstanding.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

No doubt the defense "looks" much improved espicially the double teams. either pass it out or get a turnover is what it looks like. Great stuff.

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA Live Tutorial Videos

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
neovsmatrix said:
Uh, the Live tutorial was to show FREESTYLE defense (which hasn't changed from Live 2003). Not team defense. I don't understand why you have to bash Live constantly, for things that aren't even being shown yet. I make no such conclusions on video footage, because it'd be stupid to do so.

IMHO, the ANIMATIONS for the traps and double teams in Live CAN be judged from vids at least to a point. And to me, they look outstanding.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

No doubt the defense "looks" much improved espicially the double teams. either pass it out or get a turnover is what it looks like. Great stuff.

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA Live Tutorial Videos

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
BlueDevilsFan said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
noa999 said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
BlueDevilsFan said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
neovsmatrix said:
Uh, the Live tutorial was to show FREESTYLE defense (which hasn't changed from Live 2003). Not team defense. I don't understand why you have to bash Live constantly, for things that aren't even being shown yet. I make no such conclusions on video footage, because it'd be stupid to do so.

IMHO, the ANIMATIONS for the traps and double teams in Live CAN be judged from vids at least to a point. And to me, they look outstanding.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">



Fully agree. How the team defense is implemented remains to be seen, but from what I've deduced watching all the gameplay footage (probably staged - hahahahaha) is that everything is much improved. I was worried to death about the dunk button creating havoc and another dunk-fest, but it looks and sounds like that's not the case.

Nice Post, neo.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I'm gonna hafta agree with you guys on this one. From the gameplay movies I've seen, the defense looks much better than in 2003. Live IMO looks very sharp this year, the only thing that looks broken is the abused pro-hop. But since they've added sliders, it shouldn't be a problem to fix.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


I don't know if the prohop will be abusable or not - if it gets you into the lane consistently that's one thing, but if you can't score every time you get there it won't be abusable. IE. If you can prohop into traffic whenever you want but can't dunk cleanly or put up a jumper succesfully, you have now given up your dribble and would be forced to pass or you may even get double-teamed/have the ball stripped.

I think the whole 'it's too easy to get into the lane' thing (whether it's freestyle, ISOmotion, or just plowing your way in) is looked at as too much of a negative thing in video hoops games. In reality, quick guards and good slashers can get at least a half-step on their defender and get reasonably close to the basket whenever they want, it's just that they (wisely) don't choose to every possession because they know they will be met by the bigmen inside, blocking them or otherwise forcing them to adjust to a difficult shot.

So, while many games have gone the route of having the defender have a magic invisible wall that won't let the User ever get by the defender, I think this is the wrong approach. What they should be focusing on is having the interior defense be such that if and when a User decides to take the ball to the rack they are met by solid helpside D and miss their shot or get rejected. This would force a User to pick and choose his spots and be sure to only do it with good slashers like Kobe/TMac or guards like Nash/Marbury that can effectively (though not too succesfully) lob a teardrop over the oncoming block.

When a game delivers that (I'm not holding my breath) they'll be onto something.

Know what I mean?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Hell Great Point here. getting in the paint and scoring once you get in there are two different issues. if your team has a great shot blocker or lots of long guys i think even if they get into the paint there will be plenty of missed shots because either shot adjust or get it smacked!!! and when you shot adjust your shooting percentage goes down.

on another level this if done correctly brings a whole new depth to actual gameplay... timing. it is all about timing. for instance when someone pro hops(yes i know its a jump stop) into the lane and goes for the jumper you have to jump immediately after they hope into the lane to smack it. Now what if they pro hop then just pause a minute(seen it done in a video) now your out of position for the block. another example is he pro hops, you wait... he goes for the layup. you both jump now he shot adjusts. i think you can see the picture of the many combinations that could occur and depending on your big men's shot block and defensive ratings you should be able to deter average players from coming in there even though they can because the percentages are going to be so low.

this of course will lead to a mamouth(sp) cry of the game is cheating because i am missing too many close layups and jumps shots, but conversely (sp) if they make them all then its the classic hey this game has no defense because i am shooting 70%.

i have said many times that most people crying for a simulation have no idea what they are really asking for. Just wait til one of them sturggles through a 35% shooting percentage and all the shots were taken from the key and proclaim there is no way an nba player would miss that many layups... i got news 4 ya. check the average nba teams shooting percentage and get back to me. Scoring in the league has went down because you have great athletes at every position. 7'0 small forwards for gods sake. and open unchallanged shots are hard to come by and most "easy" layups are shot after beating your defender and they dunking over or laying up around a 7'0 or two and that just isn't easy... Although vince and tmac will make it look so...that is why you need a great player to get shots in crunch time.

one video sums up what i hope this game will mean for my hopes of a true sim. gp had the ball on the wing did a move and had the lane open briefly. he saw the help defense coming and pulled up for the jumper instead of charging the lane and shot adjusting.

what most don't realize is in the nba level the players don't necessarily "need" to get closer to the rim. the just want to get as open as possible. that my friends is nba basketball. get as many "open" looks at the basket as possible

this is why on most mismatches when a center gets stuck on a guard the guard will shake a little and take the jumper. because it will be uncontested as opposed to driving into the big man and having to make so crazy shot over him and the help d.

did i get off topic ??? sorry !!! hehe i love the game of basketball

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA Live Tutorial Videos

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
BlueDevilsFan said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
noa999 said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
BlueDevilsFan said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
neovsmatrix said:
Uh, the Live tutorial was to show FREESTYLE defense (which hasn't changed from Live 2003). Not team defense. I don't understand why you have to bash Live constantly, for things that aren't even being shown yet. I make no such conclusions on video footage, because it'd be stupid to do so.

IMHO, the ANIMATIONS for the traps and double teams in Live CAN be judged from vids at least to a point. And to me, they look outstanding.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">



Fully agree. How the team defense is implemented remains to be seen, but from what I've deduced watching all the gameplay footage (probably staged - hahahahaha) is that everything is much improved. I was worried to death about the dunk button creating havoc and another dunk-fest, but it looks and sounds like that's not the case.

Nice Post, neo.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I'm gonna hafta agree with you guys on this one. From the gameplay movies I've seen, the defense looks much better than in 2003. Live IMO looks very sharp this year, the only thing that looks broken is the abused pro-hop. But since they've added sliders, it shouldn't be a problem to fix.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


I don't know if the prohop will be abusable or not - if it gets you into the lane consistently that's one thing, but if you can't score every time you get there it won't be abusable. IE. If you can prohop into traffic whenever you want but can't dunk cleanly or put up a jumper succesfully, you have now given up your dribble and would be forced to pass or you may even get double-teamed/have the ball stripped.

I think the whole 'it's too easy to get into the lane' thing (whether it's freestyle, ISOmotion, or just plowing your way in) is looked at as too much of a negative thing in video hoops games. In reality, quick guards and good slashers can get at least a half-step on their defender and get reasonably close to the basket whenever they want, it's just that they (wisely) don't choose to every possession because they know they will be met by the bigmen inside, blocking them or otherwise forcing them to adjust to a difficult shot.

So, while many games have gone the route of having the defender have a magic invisible wall that won't let the User ever get by the defender, I think this is the wrong approach. What they should be focusing on is having the interior defense be such that if and when a User decides to take the ball to the rack they are met by solid helpside D and miss their shot or get rejected. This would force a User to pick and choose his spots and be sure to only do it with good slashers like Kobe/TMac or guards like Nash/Marbury that can effectively (though not too succesfully) lob a teardrop over the oncoming block.

When a game delivers that (I'm not holding my breath) they'll be onto something.

Know what I mean?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Hell Great Point here. getting in the paint and scoring once you get in there are two different issues. if your team has a great shot blocker or lots of long guys i think even if they get into the paint there will be plenty of missed shots because either shot adjust or get it smacked!!! and when you shot adjust your shooting percentage goes down.

on another level this if done correctly brings a whole new depth to actual gameplay... timing. it is all about timing. for instance when someone pro hops(yes i know its a jump stop) into the lane and goes for the jumper you have to jump immediately after they hope into the lane to smack it. Now what if they pro hop then just pause a minute(seen it done in a video) now your out of position for the block. another example is he pro hops, you wait... he goes for the layup. you both jump now he shot adjusts. i think you can see the picture of the many combinations that could occur and depending on your big men's shot block and defensive ratings you should be able to deter average players from coming in there even though they can because the percentages are going to be so low.

this of course will lead to a mamouth(sp) cry of the game is cheating because i am missing too many close layups and jumps shots, but conversely (sp) if they make them all then its the classic hey this game has no defense because i am shooting 70%.

i have said many times that most people crying for a simulation have no idea what they are really asking for. Just wait til one of them sturggles through a 35% shooting percentage and all the shots were taken from the key and proclaim there is no way an nba player would miss that many layups... i got news 4 ya. check the average nba teams shooting percentage and get back to me. Scoring in the league has went down because you have great athletes at every position. 7'0 small forwards for gods sake. and open unchallanged shots are hard to come by and most "easy" layups are shot after beating your defender and they dunking over or laying up around a 7'0 or two and that just isn't easy... Although vince and tmac will make it look so...that is why you need a great player to get shots in crunch time.

one video sums up what i hope this game will mean for my hopes of a true sim. gp had the ball on the wing did a move and had the lane open briefly. he saw the help defense coming and pulled up for the jumper instead of charging the lane and shot adjusting.

what most don't realize is in the nba level the players don't necessarily "need" to get closer to the rim. the just want to get as open as possible. that my friends is nba basketball. get as many "open" looks at the basket as possible

this is why on most mismatches when a center gets stuck on a guard the guard will shake a little and take the jumper. because it will be uncontested as opposed to driving into the big man and having to make so crazy shot over him and the help d.

did i get off topic ??? sorry !!! hehe i love the game of basketball

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA Live Tutorial Videos

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
BlueDevilsFan said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
noa999 said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
BlueDevilsFan said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
neovsmatrix said:
Uh, the Live tutorial was to show FREESTYLE defense (which hasn't changed from Live 2003). Not team defense. I don't understand why you have to bash Live constantly, for things that aren't even being shown yet. I make no such conclusions on video footage, because it'd be stupid to do so.

IMHO, the ANIMATIONS for the traps and double teams in Live CAN be judged from vids at least to a point. And to me, they look outstanding.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">



Fully agree. How the team defense is implemented remains to be seen, but from what I've deduced watching all the gameplay footage (probably staged - hahahahaha) is that everything is much improved. I was worried to death about the dunk button creating havoc and another dunk-fest, but it looks and sounds like that's not the case.

Nice Post, neo.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I'm gonna hafta agree with you guys on this one. From the gameplay movies I've seen, the defense looks much better than in 2003. Live IMO looks very sharp this year, the only thing that looks broken is the abused pro-hop. But since they've added sliders, it shouldn't be a problem to fix.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


I don't know if the prohop will be abusable or not - if it gets you into the lane consistently that's one thing, but if you can't score every time you get there it won't be abusable. IE. If you can prohop into traffic whenever you want but can't dunk cleanly or put up a jumper succesfully, you have now given up your dribble and would be forced to pass or you may even get double-teamed/have the ball stripped.

I think the whole 'it's too easy to get into the lane' thing (whether it's freestyle, ISOmotion, or just plowing your way in) is looked at as too much of a negative thing in video hoops games. In reality, quick guards and good slashers can get at least a half-step on their defender and get reasonably close to the basket whenever they want, it's just that they (wisely) don't choose to every possession because they know they will be met by the bigmen inside, blocking them or otherwise forcing them to adjust to a difficult shot.

So, while many games have gone the route of having the defender have a magic invisible wall that won't let the User ever get by the defender, I think this is the wrong approach. What they should be focusing on is having the interior defense be such that if and when a User decides to take the ball to the rack they are met by solid helpside D and miss their shot or get rejected. This would force a User to pick and choose his spots and be sure to only do it with good slashers like Kobe/TMac or guards like Nash/Marbury that can effectively (though not too succesfully) lob a teardrop over the oncoming block.

When a game delivers that (I'm not holding my breath) they'll be onto something.

Know what I mean?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Hell Great Point here. getting in the paint and scoring once you get in there are two different issues. if your team has a great shot blocker or lots of long guys i think even if they get into the paint there will be plenty of missed shots because either shot adjust or get it smacked!!! and when you shot adjust your shooting percentage goes down.

on another level this if done correctly brings a whole new depth to actual gameplay... timing. it is all about timing. for instance when someone pro hops(yes i know its a jump stop) into the lane and goes for the jumper you have to jump immediately after they hope into the lane to smack it. Now what if they pro hop then just pause a minute(seen it done in a video) now your out of position for the block. another example is he pro hops, you wait... he goes for the layup. you both jump now he shot adjusts. i think you can see the picture of the many combinations that could occur and depending on your big men's shot block and defensive ratings you should be able to deter average players from coming in there even though they can because the percentages are going to be so low.

this of course will lead to a mamouth(sp) cry of the game is cheating because i am missing too many close layups and jumps shots, but conversely (sp) if they make them all then its the classic hey this game has no defense because i am shooting 70%.

i have said many times that most people crying for a simulation have no idea what they are really asking for. Just wait til one of them sturggles through a 35% shooting percentage and all the shots were taken from the key and proclaim there is no way an nba player would miss that many layups... i got news 4 ya. check the average nba teams shooting percentage and get back to me. Scoring in the league has went down because you have great athletes at every position. 7'0 small forwards for gods sake. and open unchallanged shots are hard to come by and most "easy" layups are shot after beating your defender and they dunking over or laying up around a 7'0 or two and that just isn't easy... Although vince and tmac will make it look so...that is why you need a great player to get shots in crunch time.

one video sums up what i hope this game will mean for my hopes of a true sim. gp had the ball on the wing did a move and had the lane open briefly. he saw the help defense coming and pulled up for the jumper instead of charging the lane and shot adjusting.

what most don't realize is in the nba level the players don't necessarily "need" to get closer to the rim. the just want to get as open as possible. that my friends is nba basketball. get as many "open" looks at the basket as possible

this is why on most mismatches when a center gets stuck on a guard the guard will shake a little and take the jumper. because it will be uncontested as opposed to driving into the big man and having to make so crazy shot over him and the help d.

did i get off topic ??? sorry !!! hehe i love the game of basketball

[neovsmatrix]

Re: NBA Live Tutorial Videos

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
CheckMate said:
My sig still stands....

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Are you talking about me bashing other games? Because I'm not doing that. I've never done that. I have harped on a game's flaws, but that's not because I want to bash it. it's because I want a better product, one that actually makes a leap forward in b-ball sims, and doesn't remain stagnant.

[neovsmatrix]

Re: NBA Live Tutorial Videos

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
CheckMate said:
My sig still stands....

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Are you talking about me bashing other games? Because I'm not doing that. I've never done that. I have harped on a game's flaws, but that's not because I want to bash it. it's because I want a better product, one that actually makes a leap forward in b-ball sims, and doesn't remain stagnant.

[neovsmatrix]

Re: NBA Live Tutorial Videos

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
CheckMate said:
My sig still stands....

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Are you talking about me bashing other games? Because I'm not doing that. I've never done that. I have harped on a game's flaws, but that's not because I want to bash it. it's because I want a better product, one that actually makes a leap forward in b-ball sims, and doesn't remain stagnant.

[CheckMate]

Re: NBA Live Tutorial Videos

If you're not bashing, then I'm not talking about you. It's pretty obvious who has been on this forum, though.

[CheckMate]

Re: NBA Live Tutorial Videos

If you're not bashing, then I'm not talking about you. It's pretty obvious who has been on this forum, though.