I'll post this on both boards. The names have been changed to protect all involved but the sentiment is real in order to educate the masses:
ESPN Fan: i played some espn last night. it's a very strong game.
ESPN Fan: you watch any of the lakers?
ESPN Fan: i thought they looked surprisingly cohesive.
LIVE Fan: I tried to get into it, too.
LIVE Fan: Well, Payton and Malone are vets.
LIVE Fan: They'll fit into any system.
ESPN Fan: i was very impressed with malone.
LIVE Fan: There are just a few things I really don't like in ESPN:
ESPN Fan: such as?
LIVE Fan: 1) Isomotion. They just seem like canned animations. I like Live because when you crossover to either the left or right, you actually create space to drive. Or if you spin forward, there's a chance that you'll pass the defender if you're in position. If you use the back-up dribble, you actually create space to shoot a jumpshot. With ESPN, it just seems like something cool to do.
LIVE Fan: 2) The feel of the game. It's the same reason I don't like ESPN. It feels really linear. If you run at somebody, you either can't go past him or drive right through him. In Live, there are collisions and you really feel like you're going around them.
LIVE Fan: 3) Dunks and blocked shots. Like most people, I don't like how these are just too ridiculous. It's like they're trying to catch up with Live 2003 which was a ****ty game to begin with. Rarely does someone block a shot with that much force. In Live, (even though there may be too many blocks), when someone blocks a shot, the defense and offense have an equal chance to get the loose ball.
LIVE Fan: 4) Control. After playing Live, I just really like how you have more control of the players. ESPN feels like Streetfighter, where you're only concern is what's happening on the ball. With Live, because of the 10 man capture, If someone gives you a pick, they'll roll to the basket. You have to worry about that. And the off-ball feature on offense is pretty cool. And I like having defensive freestyle/isomotion as well.
LIVE Fan: I really can't understand why you'd prefer ESPN over Live, especially because all the things you've complained about can be fixed with a slider (which ESPN doesn't have many of).
LIVE Fan: Enter the future, Koehler.
ESPN Fan: i'm getting a handle on the isomotion. you can cross over to the left and right.
LIVE Fan: I tried it too, but it doesn't seem to do anything. Most of the time, it just results in a charge.
LIVE Fan: I do like 24/7 and the fact that you can play 21.
LIVE Fan: That's cool.
ESPN Fan: that's because your using the joystick in the wrong way.
LIVE Fan: I tried every direction and every combination.
LIVE Fan: What's the point of the animation if it's just animation?
ESPN Fan: basically, pushing the right thumbstick left will crossover left, right will crossover right. this is true regardless of what direction the player is facing, if that makes any sense.
ESPN Fan: like, you're push the thumbstick to your left/right, not the player's left/right.
LIVE Fan: It's the same for Live. I get that. But like I said, in Live, the cross over dribble actually does something. The way they explain it in ESPN, it's like, you hit the button and it's up to the defender to guess what direction you're going. In Live, it's more reactionary.
ESPN Fan: nah.
LIVE Fan: I'll keep it one more night. It just doesn't have the fluidity that Live does.
LIVE Fan: Do you prefer the ESPN Isomotion over the Live Freestyle?
ESPN Fan: i never once used to live freestyle when playing against you.
ESPN Fan: i have no idea how it works.
LIVE Fan: It's very simplified. I think that's why I prefer it. Left and right are crossvoers, up is a spin move, and down is a back-up dribble so you can create space for a jumpshot. The thing I like about it is that it's contained, whereas ESPN is so fancy where the guy dribbles it around the back with one arm and through his legs, etc. There's more control.
LIVE Fan: You should watch the tutorials if you haven't already.
ESPN Fan: you just need practice on espn.
LIVE Fan: I played for a long time last night. I did alot of practice mode.
LIVE Fan: I really don't understand why you prefer it. I mean, when we played the other night, did you really prefer the ESPN game or the Live game?
LIVE Fan: The sense I get in ESPN is that it's just a question of whether you can get to the rack and at that point, it's whether or not you dunk or get fouled.
ESPN Fan: o prefer espn right now.
ESPN Fan: how can you say that for espn and not live?
ESPN Fan: you hit so many more jumpers in espn.
ESPN Fan: and the blocks are a lot more realistic.
LIVE Fan: The blocks go out of bounds and there's a [censored you naughty boy] streak behind them! Clearly, that's the direction ESPN went this year.
LIVE Fan: Arcade.
LIVE Fan: Street Fighter-ish.
ESPN Fan: you can turn the streak off.
LIVE Fan: they just posted this topic.
LIVE Fan: Check it.
LIVE Fan: http://forums.operationsports.com/ub...&fpart=all
ESPN Fan: what is it?
LIVE Fan: A discussion about Isomotion vs. Freestyle, but there are alot of other posts in there, too.
LIVE Fan: Check out both message boards.
LIVE Fan: Live and ESPN.
LIVE Fan: On the ESPN, you'll find that most people are disgruntled.
LIVE Fan: On Live, complaining about small things but mostly liking it.
ESPN Fan: so what are you saying - that even though i'm quite happy with it, since others aren't...i shouldn't be, either?
LIVE Fan: No. I'm just trying to convert you like I was converted. But only game experience will do that. It's crazy for us to be playing different games because when we hook up, there will always be a learning curve.
LIVE Fan: Did you check out that post?
ESPN Fan: no.
LIVE Fan: You should. It makes sense.
ESPN Fan: btw, you can turn the isomotion off and switch the right thumbstick back to passing.
LIVE Fan: It turns into a lob pass right?
ESPN Fan: yes.
ESPN Fan: like 2k3.
LIVE Fan: It's not just the Isomotion for me. It's the whole thing. I actually prefer 2K3 over ESPN Basketball. The game is more realistic.
LIVE Fan: What do you prefer in the newer game?
ESPN Fan: the defenses are more realistic, the animations, graphics...
ESPN Fan: 24/7 mode.
ESPN Fan: jumpers are so more more realistic in espn. i can't see how you can prefer ea in this regard - i probably hit 3 jumpers in 2 games total against you and i won both.
ESPN Fan: i mean, really, how effective is the freestyle control when i never used it and won every game i played against someone who did?
LIVE Fan: Well, we were playing on sliders that I use against the computer, because against the computer, he hits a ****load of jumpers and I wanted to be on the same settigns as the computer so when I lowered the computer settings, I lowered mine as well. That's not really a good way to do it though because usually, the computer shoots from the most perfect release point whereas you and I, don't. I've created user vs. user settings, based on our two games, that I think will be more effective.
LIVE Fan: In terms of freestyle, it was working most of the time.
LIVE Fan: All the steals I got were mostly freestyle steals.
LIVE Fan: And when I broke a computer controlled players ankles, that was because of freestyle.
LIVE Fan: You beat me because I was the Bucks and the Celtics and I played on the road both times.
LIVE Fan: And I think the games were really close.
LIVE Fan: I backed off a bit so that you could get used to the game.
LIVE Fan: No use going full force at a rook ;-)
ESPN Fan: whatever.
LIVE Fan: And really, freestyle is not that effective (but there is a slider for it.) I think we were playing on a lower level freestyle. I didn't want it too effective or the game would become dunks and blocked shots.
ESPN Fan: you mean, even more so than it already is?
LIVE Fan: I think it makes for a better sim if the freestyle is not too effective and you have to rely on team basketball.
LIVE Fan: It was because of the sliders.
LIVE Fan: And look, if you want to play dunk ball and take it to the rack every time, you can. Based on the scores we put up, you'll score about the same amount of points.
LIVE Fan: It's not like taking it to the hole was any easier. You scored less than 100 points.
LIVE Fan: ...if that was your game plan.
ESPN Fan: the game, as we played it, was a dunk and shot block orgy. if we turn the freestyle up to where it is actually effective, then it becomes even more so. how is this a good thing?
ESPN Fan: i scored 98 in a game and it was because you can't take jumpers.
LIVE Fan: Because if we up the freestyle, I can up the on-ball defense slider. As it stands now, freestyle is low and on-ball is low.
LIVE Fan: You can up the freestyle, but I would suggest upping the defensive stopping slider, too.
LIVE Fan: The jumper percentage is an easy fix.
ESPN Fan: there are sliders for all these things in espn as well.
LIVE Fan: The way I had it set, the default is 50. For inside shots, I had it at 25, the medium shots at 30, and the long shots at 35.
LIVE Fan: Yes, there are sliders in ESPN, but we're talking percentages here and not feel of the game.
ESPN Fan: please.
LIVE Fan: Why please?
LIVE Fan: That's what we're talking about.
LIVE Fan: You don't think you hit enough of your jumpers.
LIVE Fan: I agree.
ESPN Fan: i want you to explain to me how freestyle control is so much better in ea when, by your own admission it is "not too effective."
LIVE Fan: I can up the percentages.
ESPN Fan: you main complaint with espn is the isomotion, when the freestyle in ea does nothing to really effect the game, evidenced by me not using it but winning anyway. you've always complained about how in 2k3 the shooting was unrealistically poor. it's even poorer in ea, but has been improved in espn. your criticisms, though, seem way out of line.
ESPN Fan: this makes absolutely no sense, and i can only assume that you like taking the underdog all the time. you're like the one guy on the block who has to root for the cowboys when everyone else is a giants fan.
ESPN Fan: it's been like that for every game that's come out this year. todd and i like ea football, so you have to go and get espn football. fine. todd and i like espn hockey...so you have to go and get ea hockey, which is clearly inferior. and now this basketball business, where you now like ea despite it's inferiority in every aspect of gameplay which you've complained about in the past.
LIVE Fan: Because there's much more control in EA Freestyle. It's only less effective because I set it as so. I played yesterday and set it really high and saw a major difference in how effective it was. When I crossed over, the defender bought the fake every time. There's a happy medium. I just have to find it.
In terms of shooting jump shots, when I play the computer, it's fine because I've tweaked the sliders. Playing you, we'll have to find the right slider combinations. It's just different against the computer.
Yes, I usually do go for the underdog, but I think based on the general consensus of all the boards I've read, Live is a better game.
ESPN Fan: your whole stance on these things is highly questionable.
ESPN Fan: why set it as ineffective if you think it's so great?!?!?!
ESPN Fan: it's like, you say you like ea because of the freestyle...and then you set freestyle so low that it might as well not even be a part of the game. this makes no sense - surely you must see that.
LIVE Fan: I set it low, but not ineffective. If you're playing against a subpar defender, then yes, it's more effective than if you're playing against The Glove. I just didn't want the games to be one-on-one oriented (even though, you can make an argument that if someone beats someone one on one, it affects the rest of the game).
LIVE Fan: And unlike you and Todd, I tried all the games before I bought them.
LIVE Fan: You bought hockey and football right away.
LIVE Fan: I tried all the options.
LIVE Fan: Well, not all the options, but at least the two main ones.
LIVE Fan: You're right, though.
LIVE Fan: I should try some games with the freestyle at a higher effectiveness.
LIVE Fan: That could actually make the game more fun and put more of a reliance on team defense.
ESPN Fan: maybe you should try playing espn with isomotion, fruitcup.
LIVE Fan: And I don't like Live because of the freestyle. I just prefer the freestyle over ESPN's Isomotion.
LIVE Fan: I did. You're the one that doesn't try different things.
ESPN Fan: so what don't you like about espn?
LIVE Fan: We've went over this. The Isomotion. The linear feel of the game. The stock animation. Etc.
ESPN Fan: then don't use the isomotion.
ESPN Fan: linear? what are you talking about?
ESPN Fan: and the animations are better than ea by far.
LIVE Fan: It's a little hard to explain, but here goes:
LIVE Fan: If a player is directly standing in front of you, and you drive right at him, you'll get stopped and maybe be called for a charge. Fine. But there's no gray area. In Live, you can run around someone. You run into them, there might be a bump or something, and then you rub off them, like in real life. It isn't do or die. There's a gray area. I kinda feel the same way with hockey.
ESPN Fan: i do like the jostling a little better in ea, but i would hardly say there is no gray area in espn. people bump off of other people all the time, even people with the ball.
ESPN Fan: practice in 24/7 or one on one mode.
LIVE Fan: See, it's not just an issue of one-on-one play. I'm talking off ball too. In ESPN, the other players don't seem to be doing anything. In Live, you have to pay attention to everyone on the court because someone can come open at a moment's notice.
ESPN Fan: comments like this lead me to believe you are either making stuff up or not paying attention.
LIVE Fan: What am I making up?
ESPN Fan: what do you think the "court focus" function is there for in espn? you know, when a marker appears under a player who is open moving towards the basket?
LIVE Fan: In Live, if you control off-ball you have to watch the other players come off screens and stuff. There's nothing comparable in ESPN.
ESPN Fan: i also like that you can send players to the basket in espn without having to switch to them off the ball, which is much more user friendly.
LIVE Fan: You can do the same in Live. I just didn't tell you about the directional pad play caller.
LIVE Fan: I did. But it was late.
ESPN Fan: i know. great, you call call for a pick and roll. you can do the same thing in espn.
LIVE Fan: You can also call for isolation, basket cuts, and a postup on the ball side.
LIVE Fan: Like I said, more control in Live.
ESPN Fan: and you can't call these plays in espn?
LIVE Fan: I wasn't saying that. I'm just saying that they're available in Live. Based on one of your earlier statements, it sounded like you didn't know.
ESPN Fan: all i can say is, fifa 2k4 will kick all their asses.
LIVE Fan: Because it's made by the guys that did Live.
ESPN Fan: all i said is that some of these functions are more user friendly in espn.
LIVE Fan: It's just a different button.
ESPN Fan: i like the drop step in ea and the player contact. this is about it.
ESPN Fan: the buttons and gameplay are more intuitive in espn.
ESPN Fan: having the rebounding/blocking button be different than a shooting button is [censored you naughty boy] gayer than nathan lane in a tutu, sorry.
LIVE Fan: Well, I think it's more a testament to how much control there is. For one, there are two buttons for shooting. And on D, there's a different button for taking a charge and another for facing up.
LIVE Fan: I do kinda wish, though, that the blocking button was the same as the layup/dunk button.
ESPN Fan: i mean, how many times have you tried to get an offensive rebound and hit the wrong button?
LIVE Fan: You get used to it. When I was playing ESPN, my fingers were already used to playing Live and I couldn't remember the buttons. You're being a little overdramatic. Seek out a new button? They're an eigth of an inch apart.
ESPN Fan: my point is that it's counterintuitive.
LIVE Fan: My point is you get used to it. It's not like driving in London.
ESPN Fan: which you don't get used to?
LIVE Fan: And, of course, you can remap the controller.
ESPN Fan: admit that it's gayer than rupert everett in a training bra.
LIVE Fan: It is counterintuitive but with all the options, it would be strange to have the charge button anywhere else.
ESPN Fan: gay.
LIVE Fan: It's intuitive to have Y as the jump/block/rebound button because it's the highest button on the keypad.
ESPN Fan: why do you even argue?
ESPN Fan: it's is stupid to have these two functions be different buttons!!!! this is obvious!!!!
LIVE Fan: What I'm saying is if the blocking button was the same as the shoot button (which is impossible because there are two shoot buttons), then it would be equally counterintuitive to have a take charge button as the Y button. I think they made the right decision.
LIVE Fan: And we should be talking about the gameplay anyway. The intuitiveness of the buttons is irrelevant after a week of playing.
ESPN Fan: left trigger for charge would have been fine. you know...like espn.
LIVE Fan: Left trigger is back down.
LIVE Fan: You know, because Live has more options.
ESPN Fan: left trigger is back down on offense, take charge on defense. since the functions are similar, having them be the same button is intuitive, something ea knows nothing about, clearly.
LIVE Fan: It's the same on Live, but EA gives you yet another option to draw a charge. There's a big difference between facing someone up and going for a charge, a big difference that ESPN doesn't recognize.
ESPN Fan: what do you mean face someone up?
ESPN Fan: don't they automatically face up? i mean, they're not facing away from the ball, are they?
ESPN Fan: if by face up, you mean take someone on when they post, espn does that automatically, since in the nba when an offensive player gets the ball in the post, this is what the defender does.
ESPN Fan: there's no reason to have a button for it except to confuse things.
LIVE Fan: Well, let's say you and I are playing on a playground and someone else has the ball. I'm not exactly going to guard you per se. I might face the ball carrier instead. However, if you have the ball, I'd "face you up," meaning I'd get in a defensive stance and not let you drive by me.
LIVE Fan: In the post, you have the choice of whether or not you want to go into a defensive stance, retreat to another player that you might pass to, or take the charge hoping the ref will call it.
LIVE Fan: Again, more options.
LIVE Fan: Nothing is automatic.
LIVE Fan: More control comes with more responsibility.
ESPN Fan: i don't see how any of these options are different than in espn. these are all there.
ESPN Fan: except not as gay.
LIVE Fan: Because if your in the defensive post, you can't take a charge or you can't go to another player.
LIVE Fan: Or at least, you don't have the option to.
LIVE Fan: They're different because they're not there.
LIVE Fan: Atleast, not as options.
ESPN Fan: charge is a separate button.
LIVE Fan: The animations may be there, though.
LIVE Fan: Than what?
ESPN Fan: if someone has the ball and is facing the basket, facing up is automatic.
ESPN Fan: since there is nothing else a player would really do in this circumstance.
ESPN Fan: and then when they drive, you can either play true d or you can take a charge, which is a different button.
ESPN Fan: you can also jump over to take a charge, a feature that is not on live.
LIVE Fan: It's totally in Live. It's a seperate button.
LIVE Fan: And no, you don't want to automatically do that.
LIVE Fan: If Walter McCarty is on the wing and threatening to shoot a jumpshot, let me.
ESPN Fan: you can back off if you're the defender.
LIVE Fan: I'll guard Paul Pierce who's ready to take a pass.
ESPN Fan: you can take the defender and move him anywhere you want. what's the problem?
LIVE Fan: The face up button also makes you wider, but the disadvantage is that if that person beats you, it's more difficult to recover because you're already in a face up position.
ESPN Fan: as soon as the player with the ball is within distance, they automatically face up.
LIVE Fan: In basketball, on defense, you have three basic positions: face-up, free standing, or you're trying to block a shot or get a steal.
LIVE Fan: These are all present and presented as options in Live.
ESPN Fan: you're ridiculous with these criticisms.
LIVE Fan: They may be present in ESPN, but not as controllable options.
LIVE Fan: I just don't understand why you'd bemoan more options and control.
LIVE Fan: And I said, it's not off. I just prefer the team game vs. one-on-one, which ESPN is geared to. 24/7 is dedicated to it.
LIVE Fan: But, I'll admit, making freestyle more effective could be more interesting because it puts a strain on the team D.
ESPN Fan: LIVE Fan:i also like live better because it's more realistic. i mean, it's practically every game that shots are either layups or blocks and you can't hit a jumper. this is the settings i like to play on, because this is realism.
LIVE Fan: When I play the computer with those settings, the game results don't reflect that.
LIVE Fan: They were different settings.
LIVE Fan: And you like taking it to the rack. You miss three shots in a row that "you thought you should have made" and it becomes an epidemic.
LIVE Fan: Yeah, because three blocks on one possession never happens.
ESPN Fan: but one guy?!?! and 17 in the game?!?!? are you kidding me?!?!?
LIVE Fan: Kev, the problems in ESPN cannot be fixed by sliders.
LIVE Fan: What you complain about in Live can be.
LIVE Fan: And have.
ESPN Fan: i played some espn last night. it's a very strong game.
ESPN Fan: you watch any of the lakers?
ESPN Fan: i thought they looked surprisingly cohesive.
LIVE Fan: I tried to get into it, too.
LIVE Fan: Well, Payton and Malone are vets.
LIVE Fan: They'll fit into any system.
ESPN Fan: i was very impressed with malone.
LIVE Fan: There are just a few things I really don't like in ESPN:
ESPN Fan: such as?
LIVE Fan: 1) Isomotion. They just seem like canned animations. I like Live because when you crossover to either the left or right, you actually create space to drive. Or if you spin forward, there's a chance that you'll pass the defender if you're in position. If you use the back-up dribble, you actually create space to shoot a jumpshot. With ESPN, it just seems like something cool to do.
LIVE Fan: 2) The feel of the game. It's the same reason I don't like ESPN. It feels really linear. If you run at somebody, you either can't go past him or drive right through him. In Live, there are collisions and you really feel like you're going around them.
LIVE Fan: 3) Dunks and blocked shots. Like most people, I don't like how these are just too ridiculous. It's like they're trying to catch up with Live 2003 which was a ****ty game to begin with. Rarely does someone block a shot with that much force. In Live, (even though there may be too many blocks), when someone blocks a shot, the defense and offense have an equal chance to get the loose ball.
LIVE Fan: 4) Control. After playing Live, I just really like how you have more control of the players. ESPN feels like Streetfighter, where you're only concern is what's happening on the ball. With Live, because of the 10 man capture, If someone gives you a pick, they'll roll to the basket. You have to worry about that. And the off-ball feature on offense is pretty cool. And I like having defensive freestyle/isomotion as well.
LIVE Fan: I really can't understand why you'd prefer ESPN over Live, especially because all the things you've complained about can be fixed with a slider (which ESPN doesn't have many of).
LIVE Fan: Enter the future, Koehler.
ESPN Fan: i'm getting a handle on the isomotion. you can cross over to the left and right.
LIVE Fan: I tried it too, but it doesn't seem to do anything. Most of the time, it just results in a charge.
LIVE Fan: I do like 24/7 and the fact that you can play 21.
LIVE Fan: That's cool.
ESPN Fan: that's because your using the joystick in the wrong way.
LIVE Fan: I tried every direction and every combination.
LIVE Fan: What's the point of the animation if it's just animation?
ESPN Fan: basically, pushing the right thumbstick left will crossover left, right will crossover right. this is true regardless of what direction the player is facing, if that makes any sense.
ESPN Fan: like, you're push the thumbstick to your left/right, not the player's left/right.
LIVE Fan: It's the same for Live. I get that. But like I said, in Live, the cross over dribble actually does something. The way they explain it in ESPN, it's like, you hit the button and it's up to the defender to guess what direction you're going. In Live, it's more reactionary.
ESPN Fan: nah.
LIVE Fan: I'll keep it one more night. It just doesn't have the fluidity that Live does.
LIVE Fan: Do you prefer the ESPN Isomotion over the Live Freestyle?
ESPN Fan: i never once used to live freestyle when playing against you.
ESPN Fan: i have no idea how it works.
LIVE Fan: It's very simplified. I think that's why I prefer it. Left and right are crossvoers, up is a spin move, and down is a back-up dribble so you can create space for a jumpshot. The thing I like about it is that it's contained, whereas ESPN is so fancy where the guy dribbles it around the back with one arm and through his legs, etc. There's more control.
LIVE Fan: You should watch the tutorials if you haven't already.
ESPN Fan: you just need practice on espn.
LIVE Fan: I played for a long time last night. I did alot of practice mode.
LIVE Fan: I really don't understand why you prefer it. I mean, when we played the other night, did you really prefer the ESPN game or the Live game?
LIVE Fan: The sense I get in ESPN is that it's just a question of whether you can get to the rack and at that point, it's whether or not you dunk or get fouled.
ESPN Fan: o prefer espn right now.
ESPN Fan: how can you say that for espn and not live?
ESPN Fan: you hit so many more jumpers in espn.
ESPN Fan: and the blocks are a lot more realistic.
LIVE Fan: The blocks go out of bounds and there's a [censored you naughty boy] streak behind them! Clearly, that's the direction ESPN went this year.
LIVE Fan: Arcade.
LIVE Fan: Street Fighter-ish.
ESPN Fan: you can turn the streak off.
LIVE Fan: they just posted this topic.
LIVE Fan: Check it.
LIVE Fan: http://forums.operationsports.com/ub...&fpart=all
ESPN Fan: what is it?
LIVE Fan: A discussion about Isomotion vs. Freestyle, but there are alot of other posts in there, too.
LIVE Fan: Check out both message boards.
LIVE Fan: Live and ESPN.
LIVE Fan: On the ESPN, you'll find that most people are disgruntled.
LIVE Fan: On Live, complaining about small things but mostly liking it.
ESPN Fan: so what are you saying - that even though i'm quite happy with it, since others aren't...i shouldn't be, either?
LIVE Fan: No. I'm just trying to convert you like I was converted. But only game experience will do that. It's crazy for us to be playing different games because when we hook up, there will always be a learning curve.
LIVE Fan: Did you check out that post?
ESPN Fan: no.
LIVE Fan: You should. It makes sense.
ESPN Fan: btw, you can turn the isomotion off and switch the right thumbstick back to passing.
LIVE Fan: It turns into a lob pass right?
ESPN Fan: yes.
ESPN Fan: like 2k3.
LIVE Fan: It's not just the Isomotion for me. It's the whole thing. I actually prefer 2K3 over ESPN Basketball. The game is more realistic.
LIVE Fan: What do you prefer in the newer game?
ESPN Fan: the defenses are more realistic, the animations, graphics...
ESPN Fan: 24/7 mode.
ESPN Fan: jumpers are so more more realistic in espn. i can't see how you can prefer ea in this regard - i probably hit 3 jumpers in 2 games total against you and i won both.
ESPN Fan: i mean, really, how effective is the freestyle control when i never used it and won every game i played against someone who did?
LIVE Fan: Well, we were playing on sliders that I use against the computer, because against the computer, he hits a ****load of jumpers and I wanted to be on the same settigns as the computer so when I lowered the computer settings, I lowered mine as well. That's not really a good way to do it though because usually, the computer shoots from the most perfect release point whereas you and I, don't. I've created user vs. user settings, based on our two games, that I think will be more effective.
LIVE Fan: In terms of freestyle, it was working most of the time.
LIVE Fan: All the steals I got were mostly freestyle steals.
LIVE Fan: And when I broke a computer controlled players ankles, that was because of freestyle.
LIVE Fan: You beat me because I was the Bucks and the Celtics and I played on the road both times.
LIVE Fan: And I think the games were really close.
LIVE Fan: I backed off a bit so that you could get used to the game.
LIVE Fan: No use going full force at a rook ;-)
ESPN Fan: whatever.
LIVE Fan: And really, freestyle is not that effective (but there is a slider for it.) I think we were playing on a lower level freestyle. I didn't want it too effective or the game would become dunks and blocked shots.
ESPN Fan: you mean, even more so than it already is?
LIVE Fan: I think it makes for a better sim if the freestyle is not too effective and you have to rely on team basketball.
LIVE Fan: It was because of the sliders.
LIVE Fan: And look, if you want to play dunk ball and take it to the rack every time, you can. Based on the scores we put up, you'll score about the same amount of points.
LIVE Fan: It's not like taking it to the hole was any easier. You scored less than 100 points.
LIVE Fan: ...if that was your game plan.
ESPN Fan: the game, as we played it, was a dunk and shot block orgy. if we turn the freestyle up to where it is actually effective, then it becomes even more so. how is this a good thing?
ESPN Fan: i scored 98 in a game and it was because you can't take jumpers.
LIVE Fan: Because if we up the freestyle, I can up the on-ball defense slider. As it stands now, freestyle is low and on-ball is low.
LIVE Fan: You can up the freestyle, but I would suggest upping the defensive stopping slider, too.
LIVE Fan: The jumper percentage is an easy fix.
ESPN Fan: there are sliders for all these things in espn as well.
LIVE Fan: The way I had it set, the default is 50. For inside shots, I had it at 25, the medium shots at 30, and the long shots at 35.
LIVE Fan: Yes, there are sliders in ESPN, but we're talking percentages here and not feel of the game.
ESPN Fan: please.
LIVE Fan: Why please?
LIVE Fan: That's what we're talking about.
LIVE Fan: You don't think you hit enough of your jumpers.
LIVE Fan: I agree.
ESPN Fan: i want you to explain to me how freestyle control is so much better in ea when, by your own admission it is "not too effective."
LIVE Fan: I can up the percentages.
ESPN Fan: you main complaint with espn is the isomotion, when the freestyle in ea does nothing to really effect the game, evidenced by me not using it but winning anyway. you've always complained about how in 2k3 the shooting was unrealistically poor. it's even poorer in ea, but has been improved in espn. your criticisms, though, seem way out of line.
ESPN Fan: this makes absolutely no sense, and i can only assume that you like taking the underdog all the time. you're like the one guy on the block who has to root for the cowboys when everyone else is a giants fan.
ESPN Fan: it's been like that for every game that's come out this year. todd and i like ea football, so you have to go and get espn football. fine. todd and i like espn hockey...so you have to go and get ea hockey, which is clearly inferior. and now this basketball business, where you now like ea despite it's inferiority in every aspect of gameplay which you've complained about in the past.
LIVE Fan: Because there's much more control in EA Freestyle. It's only less effective because I set it as so. I played yesterday and set it really high and saw a major difference in how effective it was. When I crossed over, the defender bought the fake every time. There's a happy medium. I just have to find it.
In terms of shooting jump shots, when I play the computer, it's fine because I've tweaked the sliders. Playing you, we'll have to find the right slider combinations. It's just different against the computer.
Yes, I usually do go for the underdog, but I think based on the general consensus of all the boards I've read, Live is a better game.
ESPN Fan: your whole stance on these things is highly questionable.
ESPN Fan: why set it as ineffective if you think it's so great?!?!?!
ESPN Fan: it's like, you say you like ea because of the freestyle...and then you set freestyle so low that it might as well not even be a part of the game. this makes no sense - surely you must see that.
LIVE Fan: I set it low, but not ineffective. If you're playing against a subpar defender, then yes, it's more effective than if you're playing against The Glove. I just didn't want the games to be one-on-one oriented (even though, you can make an argument that if someone beats someone one on one, it affects the rest of the game).
LIVE Fan: And unlike you and Todd, I tried all the games before I bought them.
LIVE Fan: You bought hockey and football right away.
LIVE Fan: I tried all the options.
LIVE Fan: Well, not all the options, but at least the two main ones.
LIVE Fan: You're right, though.
LIVE Fan: I should try some games with the freestyle at a higher effectiveness.
LIVE Fan: That could actually make the game more fun and put more of a reliance on team defense.
ESPN Fan: maybe you should try playing espn with isomotion, fruitcup.
LIVE Fan: And I don't like Live because of the freestyle. I just prefer the freestyle over ESPN's Isomotion.
LIVE Fan: I did. You're the one that doesn't try different things.
ESPN Fan: so what don't you like about espn?
LIVE Fan: We've went over this. The Isomotion. The linear feel of the game. The stock animation. Etc.
ESPN Fan: then don't use the isomotion.
ESPN Fan: linear? what are you talking about?
ESPN Fan: and the animations are better than ea by far.
LIVE Fan: It's a little hard to explain, but here goes:
LIVE Fan: If a player is directly standing in front of you, and you drive right at him, you'll get stopped and maybe be called for a charge. Fine. But there's no gray area. In Live, you can run around someone. You run into them, there might be a bump or something, and then you rub off them, like in real life. It isn't do or die. There's a gray area. I kinda feel the same way with hockey.
ESPN Fan: i do like the jostling a little better in ea, but i would hardly say there is no gray area in espn. people bump off of other people all the time, even people with the ball.
ESPN Fan: practice in 24/7 or one on one mode.
LIVE Fan: See, it's not just an issue of one-on-one play. I'm talking off ball too. In ESPN, the other players don't seem to be doing anything. In Live, you have to pay attention to everyone on the court because someone can come open at a moment's notice.
ESPN Fan: comments like this lead me to believe you are either making stuff up or not paying attention.
LIVE Fan: What am I making up?
ESPN Fan: what do you think the "court focus" function is there for in espn? you know, when a marker appears under a player who is open moving towards the basket?
LIVE Fan: In Live, if you control off-ball you have to watch the other players come off screens and stuff. There's nothing comparable in ESPN.
ESPN Fan: i also like that you can send players to the basket in espn without having to switch to them off the ball, which is much more user friendly.
LIVE Fan: You can do the same in Live. I just didn't tell you about the directional pad play caller.
LIVE Fan: I did. But it was late.
ESPN Fan: i know. great, you call call for a pick and roll. you can do the same thing in espn.
LIVE Fan: You can also call for isolation, basket cuts, and a postup on the ball side.
LIVE Fan: Like I said, more control in Live.
ESPN Fan: and you can't call these plays in espn?
LIVE Fan: I wasn't saying that. I'm just saying that they're available in Live. Based on one of your earlier statements, it sounded like you didn't know.
ESPN Fan: all i can say is, fifa 2k4 will kick all their asses.
LIVE Fan: Because it's made by the guys that did Live.
ESPN Fan: all i said is that some of these functions are more user friendly in espn.
LIVE Fan: It's just a different button.
ESPN Fan: i like the drop step in ea and the player contact. this is about it.
ESPN Fan: the buttons and gameplay are more intuitive in espn.
ESPN Fan: having the rebounding/blocking button be different than a shooting button is [censored you naughty boy] gayer than nathan lane in a tutu, sorry.
LIVE Fan: Well, I think it's more a testament to how much control there is. For one, there are two buttons for shooting. And on D, there's a different button for taking a charge and another for facing up.
LIVE Fan: I do kinda wish, though, that the blocking button was the same as the layup/dunk button.
ESPN Fan: i mean, how many times have you tried to get an offensive rebound and hit the wrong button?
LIVE Fan: You get used to it. When I was playing ESPN, my fingers were already used to playing Live and I couldn't remember the buttons. You're being a little overdramatic. Seek out a new button? They're an eigth of an inch apart.
ESPN Fan: my point is that it's counterintuitive.
LIVE Fan: My point is you get used to it. It's not like driving in London.
ESPN Fan: which you don't get used to?
LIVE Fan: And, of course, you can remap the controller.
ESPN Fan: admit that it's gayer than rupert everett in a training bra.
LIVE Fan: It is counterintuitive but with all the options, it would be strange to have the charge button anywhere else.
ESPN Fan: gay.
LIVE Fan: It's intuitive to have Y as the jump/block/rebound button because it's the highest button on the keypad.
ESPN Fan: why do you even argue?
ESPN Fan: it's is stupid to have these two functions be different buttons!!!! this is obvious!!!!
LIVE Fan: What I'm saying is if the blocking button was the same as the shoot button (which is impossible because there are two shoot buttons), then it would be equally counterintuitive to have a take charge button as the Y button. I think they made the right decision.
LIVE Fan: And we should be talking about the gameplay anyway. The intuitiveness of the buttons is irrelevant after a week of playing.
ESPN Fan: left trigger for charge would have been fine. you know...like espn.
LIVE Fan: Left trigger is back down.
LIVE Fan: You know, because Live has more options.
ESPN Fan: left trigger is back down on offense, take charge on defense. since the functions are similar, having them be the same button is intuitive, something ea knows nothing about, clearly.
LIVE Fan: It's the same on Live, but EA gives you yet another option to draw a charge. There's a big difference between facing someone up and going for a charge, a big difference that ESPN doesn't recognize.
ESPN Fan: what do you mean face someone up?
ESPN Fan: don't they automatically face up? i mean, they're not facing away from the ball, are they?
ESPN Fan: if by face up, you mean take someone on when they post, espn does that automatically, since in the nba when an offensive player gets the ball in the post, this is what the defender does.
ESPN Fan: there's no reason to have a button for it except to confuse things.
LIVE Fan: Well, let's say you and I are playing on a playground and someone else has the ball. I'm not exactly going to guard you per se. I might face the ball carrier instead. However, if you have the ball, I'd "face you up," meaning I'd get in a defensive stance and not let you drive by me.
LIVE Fan: In the post, you have the choice of whether or not you want to go into a defensive stance, retreat to another player that you might pass to, or take the charge hoping the ref will call it.
LIVE Fan: Again, more options.
LIVE Fan: Nothing is automatic.
LIVE Fan: More control comes with more responsibility.
ESPN Fan: i don't see how any of these options are different than in espn. these are all there.
ESPN Fan: except not as gay.
LIVE Fan: Because if your in the defensive post, you can't take a charge or you can't go to another player.
LIVE Fan: Or at least, you don't have the option to.
LIVE Fan: They're different because they're not there.
LIVE Fan: Atleast, not as options.
ESPN Fan: charge is a separate button.
LIVE Fan: The animations may be there, though.
LIVE Fan: Than what?
ESPN Fan: if someone has the ball and is facing the basket, facing up is automatic.
ESPN Fan: since there is nothing else a player would really do in this circumstance.
ESPN Fan: and then when they drive, you can either play true d or you can take a charge, which is a different button.
ESPN Fan: you can also jump over to take a charge, a feature that is not on live.
LIVE Fan: It's totally in Live. It's a seperate button.
LIVE Fan: And no, you don't want to automatically do that.
LIVE Fan: If Walter McCarty is on the wing and threatening to shoot a jumpshot, let me.
ESPN Fan: you can back off if you're the defender.
LIVE Fan: I'll guard Paul Pierce who's ready to take a pass.
ESPN Fan: you can take the defender and move him anywhere you want. what's the problem?
LIVE Fan: The face up button also makes you wider, but the disadvantage is that if that person beats you, it's more difficult to recover because you're already in a face up position.
ESPN Fan: as soon as the player with the ball is within distance, they automatically face up.
LIVE Fan: In basketball, on defense, you have three basic positions: face-up, free standing, or you're trying to block a shot or get a steal.
LIVE Fan: These are all present and presented as options in Live.
ESPN Fan: you're ridiculous with these criticisms.
LIVE Fan: They may be present in ESPN, but not as controllable options.
LIVE Fan: I just don't understand why you'd bemoan more options and control.
LIVE Fan: And I said, it's not off. I just prefer the team game vs. one-on-one, which ESPN is geared to. 24/7 is dedicated to it.
LIVE Fan: But, I'll admit, making freestyle more effective could be more interesting because it puts a strain on the team D.
ESPN Fan: LIVE Fan:i also like live better because it's more realistic. i mean, it's practically every game that shots are either layups or blocks and you can't hit a jumper. this is the settings i like to play on, because this is realism.
LIVE Fan: When I play the computer with those settings, the game results don't reflect that.
LIVE Fan: They were different settings.
LIVE Fan: And you like taking it to the rack. You miss three shots in a row that "you thought you should have made" and it becomes an epidemic.
LIVE Fan: Yeah, because three blocks on one possession never happens.
ESPN Fan: but one guy?!?! and 17 in the game?!?!? are you kidding me?!?!?
LIVE Fan: Kev, the problems in ESPN cannot be fixed by sliders.
LIVE Fan: What you complain about in Live can be.
LIVE Fan: And have.
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