Is the AI comeback logic a gamekiller? How bad is it (i.e. happens all the time, sometime, often, etc.) Is it difficult to beat the AI?
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Re: Comeback Logic...
Funny, I was just about to make a thread about this very thing......however, I was going to title it something like "Comeback AI is realistic, not cheap"
Here's why:
I just played perhaps my greatest game on Live, beating the Lakers in LA with the Mavs on a last-second fadeaway mid-range jumper at the buzzer. Won 86-85. Should have won by much more, as I dominated for most of the 1st 3 quarters, leading by 12 at the half and 8 at the end of 3.
In the 4th quarter, LA started to go to a much more sensible gameplan than what they tried in the 1st 3....which involved a lot of perimiter shooting with Payton and little inside game with Shaq. Shaq only had 16 points on the game, but only 8 going into the 4th quarter.
4th quarter came and they started working their way back into the game with some clutch shooting by O'Neal in the post and 2 big 3's by Bryant when I was doubling Shaq. But in NO WAY was their comeback part of a "bogus AI" factor. I started taking too many dumb shots in the 4th and only shot 5 for 17 in the quarter. Yet, I won the game. And if anyone doubts that there was no comeback logic involved.....consider this:
1) LA stormed back and took a 80-76 lead with 3 min to go.
2) Payton missed a wide open 3 when they were looking to put the nail in the coffin up 81-79 and about 1:20 to go.
3) Dirk hit a mid-range jumper as the buzzer sounded WHILE having a hand in his face to win the game
Look people, comebacks happen in all sports....even one's that are "impossible" or "beyond belief". Part of the reason we play 4 quarters of bball or football, and don't call games when a team gets up by an amount most would say ensures later victory.
Teams often buckle down and mount comebacks when they get down, ESPECIALLY in the NBA. Part of what makes it interesting. Live mimics this precisely IMO.
I've played probably 20 games on here with the slider settings I've tweaked to perfection for me. And out of those 20 games, I've won 14 and lost 6....all playing as the Mavs. And in those 6 losses, only 1 did I blow a lead and end up losing. The other 4 were tight games throughout and 1 was a blowout loss to the Kings. And in some of the 14 wins, including this latest, the CPU mounted some sort of comeback. But I also increasingly dominated as the game progressed in the other wins..........just like you often see in the NBA.
So to answer your question (after this long-winded post that I felt needed to be said):
NO! Live doesn't have a game-killing comeback logic AI. If anything, its one of the many reasons Live is the best bball game we've seen come out in a long time, despite its imperfections. -
Re: Comeback Logic...
Funny, I was just about to make a thread about this very thing......however, I was going to title it something like "Comeback AI is realistic, not cheap"
Here's why:
I just played perhaps my greatest game on Live, beating the Lakers in LA with the Mavs on a last-second fadeaway mid-range jumper at the buzzer. Won 86-85. Should have won by much more, as I dominated for most of the 1st 3 quarters, leading by 12 at the half and 8 at the end of 3.
In the 4th quarter, LA started to go to a much more sensible gameplan than what they tried in the 1st 3....which involved a lot of perimiter shooting with Payton and little inside game with Shaq. Shaq only had 16 points on the game, but only 8 going into the 4th quarter.
4th quarter came and they started working their way back into the game with some clutch shooting by O'Neal in the post and 2 big 3's by Bryant when I was doubling Shaq. But in NO WAY was their comeback part of a "bogus AI" factor. I started taking too many dumb shots in the 4th and only shot 5 for 17 in the quarter. Yet, I won the game. And if anyone doubts that there was no comeback logic involved.....consider this:
1) LA stormed back and took a 80-76 lead with 3 min to go.
2) Payton missed a wide open 3 when they were looking to put the nail in the coffin up 81-79 and about 1:20 to go.
3) Dirk hit a mid-range jumper as the buzzer sounded WHILE having a hand in his face to win the game
Look people, comebacks happen in all sports....even one's that are "impossible" or "beyond belief". Part of the reason we play 4 quarters of bball or football, and don't call games when a team gets up by an amount most would say ensures later victory.
Teams often buckle down and mount comebacks when they get down, ESPECIALLY in the NBA. Part of what makes it interesting. Live mimics this precisely IMO.
I've played probably 20 games on here with the slider settings I've tweaked to perfection for me. And out of those 20 games, I've won 14 and lost 6....all playing as the Mavs. And in those 6 losses, only 1 did I blow a lead and end up losing. The other 4 were tight games throughout and 1 was a blowout loss to the Kings. And in some of the 14 wins, including this latest, the CPU mounted some sort of comeback. But I also increasingly dominated as the game progressed in the other wins..........just like you often see in the NBA.
So to answer your question (after this long-winded post that I felt needed to be said):
NO! Live doesn't have a game-killing comeback logic AI. If anything, its one of the many reasons Live is the best bball game we've seen come out in a long time, despite its imperfections.Comment
-
Re: Comeback Logic...
Funny, I was just about to make a thread about this very thing......however, I was going to title it something like "Comeback AI is realistic, not cheap"
Here's why:
I just played perhaps my greatest game on Live, beating the Lakers in LA with the Mavs on a last-second fadeaway mid-range jumper at the buzzer. Won 86-85. Should have won by much more, as I dominated for most of the 1st 3 quarters, leading by 12 at the half and 8 at the end of 3.
In the 4th quarter, LA started to go to a much more sensible gameplan than what they tried in the 1st 3....which involved a lot of perimiter shooting with Payton and little inside game with Shaq. Shaq only had 16 points on the game, but only 8 going into the 4th quarter.
4th quarter came and they started working their way back into the game with some clutch shooting by O'Neal in the post and 2 big 3's by Bryant when I was doubling Shaq. But in NO WAY was their comeback part of a "bogus AI" factor. I started taking too many dumb shots in the 4th and only shot 5 for 17 in the quarter. Yet, I won the game. And if anyone doubts that there was no comeback logic involved.....consider this:
1) LA stormed back and took a 80-76 lead with 3 min to go.
2) Payton missed a wide open 3 when they were looking to put the nail in the coffin up 81-79 and about 1:20 to go.
3) Dirk hit a mid-range jumper as the buzzer sounded WHILE having a hand in his face to win the game
Look people, comebacks happen in all sports....even one's that are "impossible" or "beyond belief". Part of the reason we play 4 quarters of bball or football, and don't call games when a team gets up by an amount most would say ensures later victory.
Teams often buckle down and mount comebacks when they get down, ESPECIALLY in the NBA. Part of what makes it interesting. Live mimics this precisely IMO.
I've played probably 20 games on here with the slider settings I've tweaked to perfection for me. And out of those 20 games, I've won 14 and lost 6....all playing as the Mavs. And in those 6 losses, only 1 did I blow a lead and end up losing. The other 4 were tight games throughout and 1 was a blowout loss to the Kings. And in some of the 14 wins, including this latest, the CPU mounted some sort of comeback. But I also increasingly dominated as the game progressed in the other wins..........just like you often see in the NBA.
So to answer your question (after this long-winded post that I felt needed to be said):
NO! Live doesn't have a game-killing comeback logic AI. If anything, its one of the many reasons Live is the best bball game we've seen come out in a long time, despite its imperfections.Comment
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Re: Comeback Logic...
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
txaggie04ci said:
Funny, I was just about to make a thread about this very thing......however, I was going to title it something like "Comeback AI is realistic, not cheap"
Here's why:
I just played perhaps my greatest game on Live, beating the Lakers in LA with the Mavs on a last-second fadeaway mid-range jumper at the buzzer. Won 86-85. Should have won by much more, as I dominated for most of the 1st 3 quarters, leading by 12 at the half and 8 at the end of 3.
In the 4th quarter, LA started to go to a much more sensible gameplan than what they tried in the 1st 3....which involved a lot of perimiter shooting with Payton and little inside game with Shaq. Shaq only had 16 points on the game, but only 8 going into the 4th quarter.
4th quarter came and they started working their way back into the game with some clutch shooting by O'Neal in the post and 2 big 3's by Bryant when I was doubling Shaq. But in NO WAY was their comeback part of a "bogus AI" factor. I started taking too many dumb shots in the 4th and only shot 5 for 17 in the quarter. Yet, I won the game. And if anyone doubts that there was no comeback logic involved.....consider this:
1) LA stormed back and took a 80-76 lead with 3 min to go.
2) Payton missed a wide open 3 when they were looking to put the nail in the coffin up 81-79 and about 1:20 to go.
3) Dirk hit a mid-range jumper as the buzzer sounded WHILE having a hand in his face to win the game
Look people, comebacks happen in all sports....even one's that are "impossible" or "beyond belief". Part of the reason we play 4 quarters of bball or football, and don't call games when a team gets up by an amount most would say ensures later victory.
Teams often buckle down and mount comebacks when they get down, ESPECIALLY in the NBA. Part of what makes it interesting. Live mimics this precisely IMO.
I've played probably 20 games on here with the slider settings I've tweaked to perfection for me. And out of those 20 games, I've won 14 and lost 6....all playing as the Mavs. And in those 6 losses, only 1 did I blow a lead and end up losing. The other 4 were tight games throughout and 1 was a blowout loss to the Kings. And in some of the 14 wins, including this latest, the CPU mounted some sort of comeback. But I also increasingly dominated as the game progressed in the other wins..........just like you often see in the NBA.
So to answer your question (after this long-winded post that I felt needed to be said):
NO! Live doesn't have a game-killing comeback logic AI. If anything, its one of the many reasons Live is the best bball game we've seen come out in a long time, despite its imperfections.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Great news. Have you ever blown out a team controlled by the AI? This would confirm no comeback logic.Comment
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Re: Comeback Logic...
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
txaggie04ci said:
Funny, I was just about to make a thread about this very thing......however, I was going to title it something like "Comeback AI is realistic, not cheap"
Here's why:
I just played perhaps my greatest game on Live, beating the Lakers in LA with the Mavs on a last-second fadeaway mid-range jumper at the buzzer. Won 86-85. Should have won by much more, as I dominated for most of the 1st 3 quarters, leading by 12 at the half and 8 at the end of 3.
In the 4th quarter, LA started to go to a much more sensible gameplan than what they tried in the 1st 3....which involved a lot of perimiter shooting with Payton and little inside game with Shaq. Shaq only had 16 points on the game, but only 8 going into the 4th quarter.
4th quarter came and they started working their way back into the game with some clutch shooting by O'Neal in the post and 2 big 3's by Bryant when I was doubling Shaq. But in NO WAY was their comeback part of a "bogus AI" factor. I started taking too many dumb shots in the 4th and only shot 5 for 17 in the quarter. Yet, I won the game. And if anyone doubts that there was no comeback logic involved.....consider this:
1) LA stormed back and took a 80-76 lead with 3 min to go.
2) Payton missed a wide open 3 when they were looking to put the nail in the coffin up 81-79 and about 1:20 to go.
3) Dirk hit a mid-range jumper as the buzzer sounded WHILE having a hand in his face to win the game
Look people, comebacks happen in all sports....even one's that are "impossible" or "beyond belief". Part of the reason we play 4 quarters of bball or football, and don't call games when a team gets up by an amount most would say ensures later victory.
Teams often buckle down and mount comebacks when they get down, ESPECIALLY in the NBA. Part of what makes it interesting. Live mimics this precisely IMO.
I've played probably 20 games on here with the slider settings I've tweaked to perfection for me. And out of those 20 games, I've won 14 and lost 6....all playing as the Mavs. And in those 6 losses, only 1 did I blow a lead and end up losing. The other 4 were tight games throughout and 1 was a blowout loss to the Kings. And in some of the 14 wins, including this latest, the CPU mounted some sort of comeback. But I also increasingly dominated as the game progressed in the other wins..........just like you often see in the NBA.
So to answer your question (after this long-winded post that I felt needed to be said):
NO! Live doesn't have a game-killing comeback logic AI. If anything, its one of the many reasons Live is the best bball game we've seen come out in a long time, despite its imperfections.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Great news. Have you ever blown out a team controlled by the AI? This would confirm no comeback logic.Comment
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Re: Comeback Logic...
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
txaggie04ci said:
Funny, I was just about to make a thread about this very thing......however, I was going to title it something like "Comeback AI is realistic, not cheap"
Here's why:
I just played perhaps my greatest game on Live, beating the Lakers in LA with the Mavs on a last-second fadeaway mid-range jumper at the buzzer. Won 86-85. Should have won by much more, as I dominated for most of the 1st 3 quarters, leading by 12 at the half and 8 at the end of 3.
In the 4th quarter, LA started to go to a much more sensible gameplan than what they tried in the 1st 3....which involved a lot of perimiter shooting with Payton and little inside game with Shaq. Shaq only had 16 points on the game, but only 8 going into the 4th quarter.
4th quarter came and they started working their way back into the game with some clutch shooting by O'Neal in the post and 2 big 3's by Bryant when I was doubling Shaq. But in NO WAY was their comeback part of a "bogus AI" factor. I started taking too many dumb shots in the 4th and only shot 5 for 17 in the quarter. Yet, I won the game. And if anyone doubts that there was no comeback logic involved.....consider this:
1) LA stormed back and took a 80-76 lead with 3 min to go.
2) Payton missed a wide open 3 when they were looking to put the nail in the coffin up 81-79 and about 1:20 to go.
3) Dirk hit a mid-range jumper as the buzzer sounded WHILE having a hand in his face to win the game
Look people, comebacks happen in all sports....even one's that are "impossible" or "beyond belief". Part of the reason we play 4 quarters of bball or football, and don't call games when a team gets up by an amount most would say ensures later victory.
Teams often buckle down and mount comebacks when they get down, ESPECIALLY in the NBA. Part of what makes it interesting. Live mimics this precisely IMO.
I've played probably 20 games on here with the slider settings I've tweaked to perfection for me. And out of those 20 games, I've won 14 and lost 6....all playing as the Mavs. And in those 6 losses, only 1 did I blow a lead and end up losing. The other 4 were tight games throughout and 1 was a blowout loss to the Kings. And in some of the 14 wins, including this latest, the CPU mounted some sort of comeback. But I also increasingly dominated as the game progressed in the other wins..........just like you often see in the NBA.
So to answer your question (after this long-winded post that I felt needed to be said):
NO! Live doesn't have a game-killing comeback logic AI. If anything, its one of the many reasons Live is the best bball game we've seen come out in a long time, despite its imperfections.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Great news. Have you ever blown out a team controlled by the AI? This would confirm no comeback logic.Comment
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Re: Comeback Logic...
Yep, as I said in the middle of that post.......one of my 6 losses was a blowout loss to the Kings. I was NEVER in the game and was never able to even GET close to them, no matter how long the game went on.
Was down like 8 after 1 quarter and ended up losing by 25 or so. Another of those losses was a loss to the Rockets where I ended up losing by about 15 or so. Was never in that game either. In fact, I believe that I was only down 6-7 or so going into the 4th in that game and they just shut the door on me after that.
I know you've seen complaints about some sort of "comeback logic" on Live, but let me just offer my opinion on why some people are insisting they see it...(and for those that do, I'm just taking a stab here and not criticizing you)
WHen people get up in a game, especially a game like Live....they often loosen up a bit and start playing a bit more sloppily or hurriedly. Maybe they make that daring pass that they wouldn't have made early in the game or when its a close contest. Or maybe they take that 3 when they aren't really that open because...."Hey! I've got a 10 point lead. Why not?!"
And then before they know it, the computer has comeback on them. Is it really a fault in the AI of the game....or is it really the AI cheating to get back in it? I just don't think so because my 20 games or so I've played proves completely otherwise.
And when the CPU does start making a run on me, even late in some of my games, I usually can tell that I've been playing a bit sloppy and not really focusing.
Anyone agree with my view on this at all??Comment
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Re: Comeback Logic...
Yep, as I said in the middle of that post.......one of my 6 losses was a blowout loss to the Kings. I was NEVER in the game and was never able to even GET close to them, no matter how long the game went on.
Was down like 8 after 1 quarter and ended up losing by 25 or so. Another of those losses was a loss to the Rockets where I ended up losing by about 15 or so. Was never in that game either. In fact, I believe that I was only down 6-7 or so going into the 4th in that game and they just shut the door on me after that.
I know you've seen complaints about some sort of "comeback logic" on Live, but let me just offer my opinion on why some people are insisting they see it...(and for those that do, I'm just taking a stab here and not criticizing you)
WHen people get up in a game, especially a game like Live....they often loosen up a bit and start playing a bit more sloppily or hurriedly. Maybe they make that daring pass that they wouldn't have made early in the game or when its a close contest. Or maybe they take that 3 when they aren't really that open because...."Hey! I've got a 10 point lead. Why not?!"
And then before they know it, the computer has comeback on them. Is it really a fault in the AI of the game....or is it really the AI cheating to get back in it? I just don't think so because my 20 games or so I've played proves completely otherwise.
And when the CPU does start making a run on me, even late in some of my games, I usually can tell that I've been playing a bit sloppy and not really focusing.
Anyone agree with my view on this at all??Comment
-
Re: Comeback Logic...
Yep, as I said in the middle of that post.......one of my 6 losses was a blowout loss to the Kings. I was NEVER in the game and was never able to even GET close to them, no matter how long the game went on.
Was down like 8 after 1 quarter and ended up losing by 25 or so. Another of those losses was a loss to the Rockets where I ended up losing by about 15 or so. Was never in that game either. In fact, I believe that I was only down 6-7 or so going into the 4th in that game and they just shut the door on me after that.
I know you've seen complaints about some sort of "comeback logic" on Live, but let me just offer my opinion on why some people are insisting they see it...(and for those that do, I'm just taking a stab here and not criticizing you)
WHen people get up in a game, especially a game like Live....they often loosen up a bit and start playing a bit more sloppily or hurriedly. Maybe they make that daring pass that they wouldn't have made early in the game or when its a close contest. Or maybe they take that 3 when they aren't really that open because...."Hey! I've got a 10 point lead. Why not?!"
And then before they know it, the computer has comeback on them. Is it really a fault in the AI of the game....or is it really the AI cheating to get back in it? I just don't think so because my 20 games or so I've played proves completely otherwise.
And when the CPU does start making a run on me, even late in some of my games, I usually can tell that I've been playing a bit sloppy and not really focusing.
Anyone agree with my view on this at all??Comment
-
Re: Comeback Logic...
And if anyone is consistently getting up by large leads in their games and almost EVERY time the CPU is making incredible comebacks to beat them, I would have to question a bit how smart they are playing once they get the big lead.
I really believe that if you get up by 10-15 or more and start playing smart ball control and winding down the clock, the CPU in most of those games will NOT be able to comeback and beat you.
Its when people do what I mentioned in the previous post and start playing carelessly (or more carelessly than when the game was close) once they get a large lead that most of these comebacks by the CPU occur.
Comment
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Re: Comeback Logic...
And if anyone is consistently getting up by large leads in their games and almost EVERY time the CPU is making incredible comebacks to beat them, I would have to question a bit how smart they are playing once they get the big lead.
I really believe that if you get up by 10-15 or more and start playing smart ball control and winding down the clock, the CPU in most of those games will NOT be able to comeback and beat you.
Its when people do what I mentioned in the previous post and start playing carelessly (or more carelessly than when the game was close) once they get a large lead that most of these comebacks by the CPU occur.
Comment
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Re: Comeback Logic...
And if anyone is consistently getting up by large leads in their games and almost EVERY time the CPU is making incredible comebacks to beat them, I would have to question a bit how smart they are playing once they get the big lead.
I really believe that if you get up by 10-15 or more and start playing smart ball control and winding down the clock, the CPU in most of those games will NOT be able to comeback and beat you.
Its when people do what I mentioned in the previous post and start playing carelessly (or more carelessly than when the game was close) once they get a large lead that most of these comebacks by the CPU occur.
Comment
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Re: Comeback Logic...
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
txaggie04ci said:
And if anyone is consistently getting up by large leads in their games and almost EVERY time the CPU is making incredible comebacks to beat them, I would have to question a bit how smart they are playing once they get the big lead.
I really believe that if you get up by 10-15 or more and start playing smart ball control and winding down the clock, the CPU in most of those games will NOT be able to comeback and beat you.
Its when people do what I mentioned in the previous post and start playing carelessly (or more carelessly than when the game was close) once they get a large lead that most of these comebacks by the CPU occur.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
very truee
Comment
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Re: Comeback Logic...
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
txaggie04ci said:
And if anyone is consistently getting up by large leads in their games and almost EVERY time the CPU is making incredible comebacks to beat them, I would have to question a bit how smart they are playing once they get the big lead.
I really believe that if you get up by 10-15 or more and start playing smart ball control and winding down the clock, the CPU in most of those games will NOT be able to comeback and beat you.
Its when people do what I mentioned in the previous post and start playing carelessly (or more carelessly than when the game was close) once they get a large lead that most of these comebacks by the CPU occur.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> very truee
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